Why is the 520d so cheap? with almost the 523i specs. BMW Malaysia...an explaination?
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ALBundy
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Just a few points with all with regards to diesel engines.
Diesel engines are more 'hardy' compare to petrol engine due to forged internal components like conrod and crankshaft. This is necessary because of the engine's high compression which can go up as high as 22:1 compare to a petrol engine which usually half of that. Also diesel is not only a fuel but also is a lubricant (oil) and hence it helps to lubricate the piston and etc. Take a drop of diesel and rub it with your index finger and thumb.
To those that doubt the longevity of diesel engines look at even the old lorries and buses that emit black smoke all over, they are still on the road from our school days till now. If diesel engines dont last, we wont be seeing these buses and lorries on the road today. The only difference now is with common rail technology and high pressure injectors, the amount of diesel sprayed is precise and the air diesel mixture is more efficient due to the fine mist injection. All this contributed to
lower emission and better efficiency.
As to why diesel engine is more efficient, two reasons namely diesel contain more chemical energy and it produces a lot of torque and as such the cars are all lowly geared, you can be driving at 200km/hr and the rpm is probably around 3000. So better mileage and better longevity.
The 520d is cheaper because some expensive features like active integral steering is not made a standard feature as on the 523. In fact the active integral steering is considered an option in most countries.
In a few years to come I believe there will be little discussion on topics like this when everyone is paying 4 or 5 bucks per liter. Just like in Europe now, more than 60% of the cars on the road is diesel.
Diesel engines are more 'hardy' compare to petrol engine due to forged internal components like conrod and crankshaft. This is necessary because of the engine's high compression which can go up as high as 22:1 compare to a petrol engine which usually half of that. Also diesel is not only a fuel but also is a lubricant (oil) and hence it helps to lubricate the piston and etc. Take a drop of diesel and rub it with your index finger and thumb.
To those that doubt the longevity of diesel engines look at even the old lorries and buses that emit black smoke all over, they are still on the road from our school days till now. If diesel engines dont last, we wont be seeing these buses and lorries on the road today. The only difference now is with common rail technology and high pressure injectors, the amount of diesel sprayed is precise and the air diesel mixture is more efficient due to the fine mist injection. All this contributed to
lower emission and better efficiency.
As to why diesel engine is more efficient, two reasons namely diesel contain more chemical energy and it produces a lot of torque and as such the cars are all lowly geared, you can be driving at 200km/hr and the rpm is probably around 3000. So better mileage and better longevity.
The 520d is cheaper because some expensive features like active integral steering is not made a standard feature as on the 523. In fact the active integral steering is considered an option in most countries.
In a few years to come I believe there will be little discussion on topics like this when everyone is paying 4 or 5 bucks per liter. Just like in Europe now, more than 60% of the cars on the road is diesel.
paultantk
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Some links
http://autorepair.about.com/od/quicktips/a/Diesel-Engines-Vs-Gas-Engines-Reliability-Efficiency.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110117195041AAFCCEv
http://dieselgiant.com/why_diesel.htm
Diesel naturally produces more power because it has higher energy content. And from my daily driving pattern, the gearbox shifts up at 2,000rpm and sometimes even lower. The engine is relatively unstressed.
Let's also look at torque to displacement ratio. The 2.0 liter engine makes 380Nm, which translates to 95Nm per cylinder of 500cc.
The 535d's 3.0 liter engine makes 600Nm, which is 100Nm per cylinder of 500cc. Doesn't it look like the torque produced per cylinder ratio of the 6 cylinder versus the 4 cylinder shows that the 4 cylinder is actually slightly less stressed at peak performance compared to the 6 cylinder?
If we drop one turbo and look at the 530d, we're looking at 6 cylinders of 500cc each making 540Nm, which is 90Nm per cylinder. That's just a small difference of 5Nm per cylinder.
That means similar stress under hard driving when you look at power to displacement ratio.
Diesel engines also have much lower RPM limits, while normally aspirated petrol engines must rev higher to make their power, the forces that an engine's internals has to take actually goes up exponentially with engine RPM.
And the F10 doesn't really take all that much power to move under gentle driving. The 523i is able to propel it fairly well with just 250Nm torque. During gentle driving it's producing less than 250Nm. The 520d's engine has to do much less in terms of percentage of peak potential to move the car. When I drive, the rev needle just touches 2,000rpm and it shifts up to the next gear. Very relaxed feeling, where got stressed?
Like ALBundy said... the diesel engine internals are stronger and memang built to take that kind of stress.
The engines that are actually very chill are the 2.0 liter turbodiesel in the 116d and 118d... only making 260Nm and 320Nm respectively. But I do not know if they use similiar strength internals as the "full power" 184hp/380Nm 120d.
Diesel engines are just simply much more efficient at converting fuel into power… its not that they're being strained to the max to make the power they make.
Diesel engines also run much cooler than petrol engines because they do not use spark plugs. And as a result diesel engine exhaust stream is also much cooler than petrol engines, which is why VGT turbos are so common in diesel engines but only exotic cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo are able to afford expensive VGT turbos that can withstand the heat of the petrol engine exhaust stream.
http://autorepair.about.com/od/quicktips/a/Diesel-Engines-Vs-Gas-Engines-Reliability-Efficiency.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110117195041AAFCCEv
http://dieselgiant.com/why_diesel.htm
Diesel naturally produces more power because it has higher energy content. And from my daily driving pattern, the gearbox shifts up at 2,000rpm and sometimes even lower. The engine is relatively unstressed.
Let's also look at torque to displacement ratio. The 2.0 liter engine makes 380Nm, which translates to 95Nm per cylinder of 500cc.
The 535d's 3.0 liter engine makes 600Nm, which is 100Nm per cylinder of 500cc. Doesn't it look like the torque produced per cylinder ratio of the 6 cylinder versus the 4 cylinder shows that the 4 cylinder is actually slightly less stressed at peak performance compared to the 6 cylinder?
If we drop one turbo and look at the 530d, we're looking at 6 cylinders of 500cc each making 540Nm, which is 90Nm per cylinder. That's just a small difference of 5Nm per cylinder.
That means similar stress under hard driving when you look at power to displacement ratio.
Diesel engines also have much lower RPM limits, while normally aspirated petrol engines must rev higher to make their power, the forces that an engine's internals has to take actually goes up exponentially with engine RPM.
And the F10 doesn't really take all that much power to move under gentle driving. The 523i is able to propel it fairly well with just 250Nm torque. During gentle driving it's producing less than 250Nm. The 520d's engine has to do much less in terms of percentage of peak potential to move the car. When I drive, the rev needle just touches 2,000rpm and it shifts up to the next gear. Very relaxed feeling, where got stressed?
Like ALBundy said... the diesel engine internals are stronger and memang built to take that kind of stress.
The engines that are actually very chill are the 2.0 liter turbodiesel in the 116d and 118d... only making 260Nm and 320Nm respectively. But I do not know if they use similiar strength internals as the "full power" 184hp/380Nm 120d.
Diesel engines are just simply much more efficient at converting fuel into power… its not that they're being strained to the max to make the power they make.
Diesel engines also run much cooler than petrol engines because they do not use spark plugs. And as a result diesel engine exhaust stream is also much cooler than petrol engines, which is why VGT turbos are so common in diesel engines but only exotic cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo are able to afford expensive VGT turbos that can withstand the heat of the petrol engine exhaust stream.
noobie
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RH5;648445 said:
i bought a e60 520d, manufacture date nov/09. Car is 1.5yrs old. can hear clattering sound from outside or when the car is not moving, acceptable sound. can smell the diesel fumes. but once u r in the car, you won't hear the sound. just like a normal petrol engine, well at least to my ears they don't sound like a diesel.
docrayboy
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_turbocharger
VGTs tend to be much more common on diesel engines as the lower exhaust temperatures mean they are less prone to failure. The few early petrol-engine VGTs required significant pre-charge cooling to extend the turbocharger life to reasonable levels, but advances in material technology has improved their resistance to the high temperatures of petrol engine exhaust and they have started to appear increasingly in, e.g. petrol-engined sports cars.
VGTs tend to be much more common on diesel engines as the lower exhaust temperatures mean they are less prone to failure. The few early petrol-engine VGTs required significant pre-charge cooling to extend the turbocharger life to reasonable levels, but advances in material technology has improved their resistance to the high temperatures of petrol engine exhaust and they have started to appear increasingly in, e.g. petrol-engined sports cars.
noobie
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jovial8;648487 said:
when the car is moving, you will not hear the clattering sound. infact it sounded rather good(raw-rumblings of the engine)... bmw has done a good job with the NVH of the diesels. i can have a comfortable talk with the people in the car without the need to remind myself it's a diesel. It's just like any other petrol cars that i have driven. You have noises all around the car(wind noise, external noises, engine noises, traffic noises, etc...), but clattering is not one of them. tested the F10 520D and E60 520D, age diff, 1.5yrs. from my untrained ears, the "loudness" is lebih kurang lah.
E
elwine30
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I just know the 325i can't catch up with the 520d at Sepang. hahahaa.... (minus the driver skills lah).
supersonic
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RH5;647999 said:
Frm my research the diesel BMWs are abt 20% more expensive than the petrol ones in the uk. U must compare same cc. The reason is because diesel enfine cost more due to stronger materials used. U can go to ' what car ' website and check the prices. It is a leading car magazine in uk.
As for the resale value of diesel car in Msia, I think it is a matter of time when it will be more in demand than petrol. Now we have the luxury of subsidy. Wait till the petrol price go to 150 per barrel and we have to pay say abt rm4 per/l. This i think is not long frm now.
agree..hav join de diesel guys ever since jap started de diesel 4x4 yrs ago prior to the saloon boys..n love every moment since, eventhough the frontier my family had isnt realli those performance type bt still enjoy every moment i went to the pump (diesel was cheap then, and still is now imo given the miles), everything at de wheel almost as much as my E30, even tried one with NOS on it...=.=ll
thus its de way to go, TC and diesel...wonder when will we have things like ACS 99d project here...keke
Pug is coming with "d", i need de 5008 bt i wouldnt mind if de 5008d is coming...
thus its de way to go, TC and diesel...wonder when will we have things like ACS 99d project here...keke
Pug is coming with "d", i need de 5008 bt i wouldnt mind if de 5008d is coming...
pussy
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i can still recall my advise to a director of a company that was in between a e60 530d and a 530i to change from his 528i e39. i told him to go test the 530d, he was impressed and he bought it... till today he is happy.. met him recently, engine clatter like normal when new... this was in 2006
dzuljazz2001
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aidilj;648529 said:
:listen: .. there are 530i's available kan? ... Why pit a 3 litre 530d with a 4.5 litre V8 ??? Even the wifey which is not car savy knows wht would be the outcome :4: ... Dont think that will give us a fair result, rite. Anyway, thxs for the vid posted... :4: ...
supersonic
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supersonic;648536 said:
I checked again n found that diesel BMW (Same spec) are about 5 to 10% more expensive than petrol in uk. My appology.
ICEMAN 68
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with a Taxi permit , the roadtax would be a couple of hundreds only ... therefore soon we would be able to see lotsa 530d's becoming taxi's ...especailly when the used cars price surge below the 80K mark ...IMHO that could also be one of the reason on why diesel vehicle price is much more cheaper compared to petrols ...
