Msport: 320d vs 325i

[Schwepps]

The C250 CGI is turbocharged, as opposed to the usual supercharging way of Mercs. As I said, this is the way things are going guys: Blue Efficiency...Dynamic Efficiency...call it whatever you want. The F30 is going to see smaller turbocharged engines too. 6-potters will be only at the high end and out of reach of most people. Enjoy 6-pots while you can! :wink:

 

[dzuljazz2001]

The C250 CGI is turbocharged, as opposed to the usual supercharging way of Mercs. As I said, this is the way things are going guys: Blue Efficiency...Dynamic Efficiency...call it whatever you want. The F30 is going to see smaller turbocharged engines too. 6-potters will be only at the high end and out of reach of most people. Enjoy 6-pots while you can! :wink:

:listen: yes bro, manufacturers these days are looking into making the car lighter (maybe a bit smaller) and at the same time maintaining the bhp ....BE, DE, FE or what not, this is the direction most manufacturers are taking... :biggrin:

 

[VKS]

I took back my deposit for an A4 early last year..it was a superb car on its class that time comparing its 2 rivals 320 & C200 and bought the 325sports 6 potter without even test driving it...never regret making that decision until one fine day my devil friend let me test his pimped 335sports :evil:

moral of the story .. theres no end for power thirst :thefinger:

 

[Schwepps]

Well as AB said, choose a car based on what you need. I need a refined daily traveller, and something with enough ommph to enjoy outstation trips. No more track and street racing for me...been there, done that. I don't need more power, because straight-line acceleration and speed doesn't thrill me. In fact, I sold my share of a 280bhp STI after only 6 months in the group. The initial thrill wears off fast.

Actually, at my age I should be driving a 5 or a 7, but I choose a 3 because it's what I want to drive. And the 325i is both sufficient and perfect. Moral of the story: chase what you want, not what others may want.

 

[ALBundy]

Schwepps, you are still young at heart

 

[E46Fanatic]

What?! W204 C250 CGI on 1.8 turbo engine? THAT'S CHEATING!! SHORT CHANGE!! Just like the 335i only on 3.0L

Actually I think its ok, as long as the car is lighter than the V6 and puts out better performance figures and fuel consumption, which is exactly what the C250 CGI goes over the C230 V6. Now BMW E90 325i smells Merc C class smoke in a stop light drag. Tweak the boost on the C250 CGI and it might even take out a 330i!

 

[supersonic]

At the end of the day it is the final output that matters. whether u have 2 cylinders or 20 cylynder engine. The term ' no replacement for displacemnet' is out of date. Now with technology we can churn out more power with smaller engines

 

[Schwepps]

Sorry, but don't agree supersonic. There is a lot of difference in refinement and feel between a low cylinder and high cylinder engine. No point just having raw power if you have to sacrifice refinement.

 

[Mun]

Had a stint a couple of days ago with a scirocco - 2 ltr turbocharge on the Plus Hway
Got a 'line clear message' from a buddy from Ipoh to KL. Traffic is light after lunch.

Was cruising 180-190kmh mostly until I passed a black scirocco on the middle lane near slim river.
Looked over my rear view mirror - no action. So I keep minding my own business and speed with occasional glance over the rear view.

Less than 5 minutes later i saw small blipping HID about slightly more than half kilo. So I poked the stick to DS.
It could very well be the VW!

Next glance, it was a getting closer, and closer. that car must be doing at least 200kmh. So I poked the stick to M4

It was finally on my tail as i reached traffic and when traffic cleared i floored. Cannot give a little bit of chance!

It was a long straight just after Tg Malim interchange, I was touching 220 and my fav fast corner is appearing fast. This scirocco will eat me, definitely. I wasn't giving any chances and hold the throttle thru the first right sweep.

I didnt looked back on the first right sweep as I have to concentrate on the line as the first one is tighter from the second. It was almost 190 mid corner of the second left sweep and I saw a gap.

Not a big gap, but still a significant gap to motivate.

A couple more sweep coming up and I'm not giving any chances and focus straight on and didn't looked back.

When the straights returned, the VW was way back. NOt sure what happened ;

2 things on my mind ; either he quit during the fast corners or the turbo charged engine just couldn't stand the high speed chase over long period.
Mind you, all my six cylinders was revving very close to red line most of the time. Can surely do that on NA engine.

So the rest of the journey, I was having thoughts about turbocharged engine whether it can handle prolonged highspeed and rev.

I had some thought on the C250 two months ago and A4 quattro last week. Also had some thought on the 3.0 ltr stroker, hehehe... that would be nice ;-)

or maybe the VW simply decided not to eat me . It was fast!!

 

[Schwepps]

Turbos will run out of breath in the higher revs. So will diesels.

The performance of a NA 6-cyl and above comes in during situations like you described. :top:

 

[supersonic]

Sorry, but don't agree supersonic. There is a lot of difference in refinement and feel between a low cylinder and high cylinder engine. No point just having raw power if you have to sacrifice refinement.

If u r just talking abt refinement , then i fully agree with you. I m talking abt the car as a whole and my view is that nowdays we dont need large cc to get high power. that was last time. the turbo technology has improved alot. thats why I think some luxury car makers are introducing lower cc engines with turbo charger coz i think they r also with the view that we dont need high cc to generate high power. But this is just my comparison with the current 320d and 325. But if 325 also got turbo charger, than we cannot compare lah.

I f u say that there is no replacement for displacement, i think the 320d is almost there in terms of power and speed due to the technology.

 

[Mun]

If u r just talking abt refinement , then i fully agree with you. I m talking abt the car as a whole and my view is that nowdays we dont need large cc to get high power. that was last time. the turbo technology has improved alot. thats why I think some luxury car makers are introducing lower cc engines with turbo charger coz i think they r also with the view that we dont need high cc to generate high power. But this is just my comparison with the current 320d and 325. But if 325 also got turbo charger, than we cannot compare lah.

I f u say that there is no replacement for displacement, i think the 320d is almost there in terms of power and speed due to the technology.

It won't be easy if the boost comes mid corner!:smokin:

 

[Schwepps]

If u r just talking abt refinement , then i fully agree with you. I m talking abt the car as a whole and my view is that nowdays we dont need large cc to get high power. that was last time. the turbo technology has improved alot. thats why I think some luxury car makers are introducing lower cc engines with turbo charger coz i think they r also with the view that we dont need high cc to generate high power.

Yeah bro, I hear ya. But I think they're moving in the 'efficient' direction out of necessity. European fiscal rules on owners to favour lower carbon footprint and emission vehicles...and declining oil reserves. The world crossed the equilibrium point several years ago and more oil is being used now than is being discovered. It won't last forever. The number of electric cars being rolled out at the major motor shows is quite astounding...almost 100 this year alone!

 

[anxious]

Price: RM 179 000 Reg. year: 2005 Mileage: 35 000 - 39 999 Make: BMW Model: 325i Transmission: Both Engine Capacity: 2445 cc Accessories: Solar Film, CD Player, Leather seats, Airbag driver, Airbag passenger, DVD Player, ABS Brakes, Sport rims, Alarm, Central lock, Adjustable steering
-Acc free
-1 owner
-very low milleage
-fully service record
-nice number
-6 speed steptronic
-multi funtion steering

see http://www.mudah.my/Bmw+325+E90-6009815.htm

Interesting!

 

[supergripen]

All this talk about turbos not being able to hack it on long stretches is just so outdated.Modern turbos have come a long way..
Yes,if u have a super long empty stretch of road where u can blast at full pelt for hours on end than I admit,an NA car will indeed outrun a turbo based on longevity alone.Question is,is there such a road?
Fact is,turbos are the future..they are 'force multipliers',borrowing from the military's dict.Working hand in hand with various new engine tech,engines now can indeed be smaller yet produce more torque and power while consuming less fuel.
I'm not saying NA engines are inferior,they are just different.We choose our cars based on what we want it to do for us,based on our various preferences.I love both turbos and NA,the N54,the N52,the K20A,the EJ20,the 2JZ,the RB26DETT,the SR20DET....slurpssss!!!
Don't forget tho that all this technology and power and torque is worth nothing without a superb chassis and kickass brakes.The total package is what makes a car..

ps-Mun,that Scirocco is probably just scared to take those corners at such speeds..again,chassis and driver also plays a part.

 

[supergripen]

Turbos will run out of breath in the higher revs. So will diesels.

The performance of a NA 6-cyl and above comes in during situations like you described. :top:

Depends on the application.If its a smallish turbo ie in LPT applications,yes the turbo will run out of breath 3/4 way up the rev range.In high performance turbos ie the Mivec turbo of the Evo9,10 or even Subaru's EJ20 with AVCS,the turbo pushes all the way up the rev range.The limiting factor in these cars are their 4WD drivetrain and the close ratio 6speed box.The FD2R,slightly tuned,will have these cars owned once it hits 5th and in it's iVTEC zone.The Evo and STi tops at 157mph,gearing limited.The FD2R is known to top at 175mph in mildly tuned form.

There are so many variables nowadays..RWD turbo,RWD NA,FWD NA,4WD turbo.Twincroll turbos,VGV turbos,LP turbos,big displacement NA,small displacement high revving VVT NA.It just goes on and on...

I still think the person behind the steering wheel makes that car tho..

 

[supergripen]

It won't be easy if the boost comes mid corner!:smokin:

The days of turbos coming on boost mid corner is indeed behind us,unless u're talking about cars of the 80s and 90s.Most new turbos are so linear u don't even notice them,except for the huge dollop of shove u get from the get go.

 

[cklein]

Wow, so technically explain! good info, supergripen.

 

[Schwepps]

Oh oh, I woke the Supergripen! I hereby correct my statement: Turbos will run out of breath in the higher revs...unless they're Evos, STIs and similar road-legal racers.
Hey, remember that I've played with an STI before too, bro. I know what it can do. We dyno-ed our 4-pot boxer and it came out an amazing 280bhp!

I agree that turbos are the future Super...that's the way the industry is headed.

 

[astroboy]

.. small displacement high revving VVT NA...

yey! :rock: I have the above as my daily driver.. last night had a satisfying weave on NKVE having vehicles travelling at 60kph, 80kph, 100kph hogging all 3 lanes and I was on 120kph (4k rpm).. no more than a feet of error margin, sweeping in and out of all 3 lanes, dig in, get the job done and get out as docrayboy puts it.. total satisfaction! Even a 320i is overkill in such situation..