Topping up engine oil on 325i

[astroboy]

I wrote this to BMW Voice on 25/2/09, 3.08pm:

Dear sir,

I wish to find out if the following is true:

All Referenced Models: Engine oil should be changed at least once per year.
The BMW Maintenance Program allows for this operation if a vehicle does not
travel enough to have a BMW Engine Oil Service performed. This detail is
listed in the respective Service/Warranty booklet. Please make customers
aware of this important fact when you review an upcoming Service
Appointment. Refer to SI B00 04 01.

My E90 bearing registration number **T 99** has been used for about 15
months (19k km now) and the On-Board-Computer says there is another 12k km
to go until my next oil change service.

If the above "Service Bulletin" is true, that means BMW Malaysia has to
allow oil on my E90 under BSRI scheme, every 12 months despite insufficient
mileage cover.

I have spoken to Igress Auto and they insist that there is no such
guidelines from BMW Malaysia.

Please explain the above.

Thank you.

Regards,


.... and I got this reply on 26/2/09 3.19pm:

Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for your correspondence dated 25 February 2009.

Further to this, we have been in contact with Ingress Auto to gather further information about your vehicle. They will be in contact with you soonest to arrange for an inspection for your vehicle and further address your concerns.

We would like to express our appreciation of your time taken to share your experience with us and to thank you for offering us an opportunity to address the situation. Please do not hesitate to contact Ingress Auto or the undersigned should you require further clarification.

Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards,

Davendran Duraisingam

BMW Malaysia Sdn. Bhd.
3501, 2nd Floor, Jalan Teknokrat 5,
63000 Cyberjaya,
Selangor Darul Ehsan.
Fax: +603 8887 3821



Now.... what's next.. Inspection? My OBC says 12k km to go and the estimated date is 2010... so are they gonna tell me see u in 2010?

Damn... I just realise many typo in my correspondence.... pai seh..

 

[E46Fanatic]

Sounds promising. Please share with us on the outcomes from your meeting with IA.

 

[glock_8]

i've sent few letters to bmw m;sia as well...and get this kind of answer each time - they'll pass it to the dealer to deal with us..so its back to square one.

 

[astroboy]

This is what I call, finger pointing culture or Tai Chi! %$#@&*^#!!

Why can't they just answer my email with a "yes" or "no", rather than "let them check first"... what is that to check? :stupid:

Its a simple question like "Will I get my salary this month end?" and the answer is "See first.. " -_-

Waste of time.. anyway, hope I'm wrong.. keeping finger crossed and counting my lucky stars.. and wait for their call.. which I believe will be something like this: "Can u drop by this afternoon to have your car inspected?" -_-

 

[bimmerdude]

i believe this kind of service bulletins are applied differently in different countries. third world country like ours where there is minimal protection for consumers of course we wont get the same benefits that other more equal nationalities like the US, EUROPE OR JAPAN gets.
have u ever heard of any court case where the consumer wins in this country?

 

[Schwepps]

Friends, an email or letter to BMW Voice will get you a standard out-of-the-manual response. Give them the benefit of the doubt, but if you don't get a good result, bypass BMW Voice. Call BMWM directly and speak to the relevant person - speaking mano e mano is always better than writing. They're decent people there led by a very customer-oriented ex-sales guy in MD Geoffrey Briscoe. I've brought up a couple of relatively minor issues on my E90 directly to them, and received very good instant redress. They appeared to like solving customer issues. :top:

Relevant persons to talk to:
Technical Director
Head of Marketing
Head of Sales

BMW MALAYSIA SDN BHD
Enterprise 1
3440, Jalan Teknokrat 3
63000 Cyberjaya
Selangor Darul Ehsan
Tell: 8887 3888

 

[racheltoh]

astroboy..depends how "zhun" u want to go with the bmw management... who knows, u may get a new car.

 

[1088]

astroboy, have they inspected your car? Suggest you pay to change the engine oil yourself if they insist not to change FOC. The likely problem you will see is oil sludge forming in the engne at around 30000km. If this happens during warranty period, then is is good news as they will clean the engine and change the necessary parts FOC, if it happens after warranty period, it will cost you an "arm and leg". Since you are a low mileage user high chances that you will see the sludge problem after the warranty period. Just buy your own oil and have the dealer change for you. I do not know how much the oil will cost in Msia, in Singapore, you can buy Castrol 0w40 at $18/litre or S$90 for 5litires. Labour to change oil in PML Singapore is $55, all in S$145.00....

 

[astroboy]

No worries bro.. after driven for more than 2 decades, I know how to look after an engine.. :wink: Thanks for the advice.

What I don't like is despite having an existing service bulletin that says oil change is necessary every 12 months regardless of whether hitting the specified mileage, yet they can still turn a blind eye on the issue and push the responsibility to the SC while the SC also can't do anything because if they claim the oil change to BMW Malaysia, their claim will be rejected if our OBC does not trigger oil change indication.

Sludge is caused by the water molecule in the engine oil which is especially bad in a high humidity country like ours..

What is more amazing is the SC dare to tell me I didn't return my car for service after more than a year, so I asked if my mileage is low and no indication for service, do I have to pay for the service if I bring my car in? They say "YES! u need to pay sir! BSRI oil change only covers OBC indicated oil change.." :stupid:

 

[E46Fanatic]

I sometimes wonder whether its sludge or bitumen which ends up in the engine. Its known the N52 runs hotter than the M54 and the oil disapearance issues seem to be isolated on our climate conditions (hot and humid). Came across this letter.. here : http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge-letter-01.htm. Any oil men or petrochemists wanna give their inputs? Calling Schwepps or WCC?


"" Dear Norris,

I wish I had stumbled across your brilliantly informative site much earlier. However, I have been carefully studying the failure of my 1997 LandCruiser engine (135,000 Klms/around 85,000miles) for over a year and I have derived information that I trust you'll find useful, even though it is at odds with some of the underlying assumptions of your work on "sludge". By the way, in parlance I am more accustomed to and from my experience pre-PCV systems and detergent/dispersancy factors in motor oils, "sludge" is a combination of soot (from blow by) and moisture and it gathers in the sump as grey to black muck that can be readily washed out with kerosene. It is nothing like the material that accumulated in my engine.

The material that caused my engine to fail proved to be "Bitumen" (yep, the type of material that road surfaces are made from) and definitely not sludge in the my traditionally understood sense.

It was not formed through chemical interactions and was not caused by poor maintenance. It had nothing to do with ash content, soot, or moisture. Moreover it formed from pyrolization of the organic fractions remaining in the base oil from the refining process.

The oil mist generated by the moving parts smoked off on contact with excessively hot surfaces within the crankcase and rose within the engine internals to condense as bitumen on cooler internal surfaces (e.g. cam cover and timing chain cover, and that which passed through the PCV valve condensed on the inner surfaces of the inlet manifold and that found its way down to coke up the inlet valves). It had nothing to do with the efficacy of the PCV system or any other contaminants.

One of the tests I did with thermo couples showed that a thin film of the oil I was using will smoke off a 140 degrees Celsius metal surface. (This is not the same as Flash Point). Bearing in mind that the usual coolant mix under pressurization can reach more than 130 degrees Celsius without boiling, it doesn't take much for the internals of the crankcase to exceed 140 Degrees under some operating conditions if the cooling system and temperature sensing system isn't up to the job and allows heat soak build up without temp gauge indication.

As it turns out, the evidence overwhelmingly and irrefutably shows that the block has been operating at excessive temperatures because the cooling system cannot transfer the full potential heat load up via the cylinder head through the thermostat and radiator for cooling.

The mass and surface areas of the aluminium cylinder head, cam cover and inlet manifold do a magnificent job of dissipating the heat they receive so the thermostat and bypass system stay nicely in equilibrium. Accordingly, the temperature sensing system gauge never varies from central despite the raging heat soak accumulation in the block below. Ergo, everything seems rosy to the driver and yet inside the engine can be dense clouds of smoke rising to condense as bitumen.

It didn't take me long to find that this seems to be a widely present phenomena in a a range of manufacturers' engines (but not all).

Based on the evidence, faulty cooling system design and manufacture is key to the problem as it affected me. And I reckon like problems underpin the scourge of so called "sludge" affecting many engine types.

In mine,

a. Coolant flow is severely restricted by inadequate porting through the head gasket. The sum of the areas of all of the gasket flow ports is less than the area of the pump output throat. Furthermore, the surface friction effect of all of the small holes through the gasket compared to that of the pump output throat, is about 4:1 against the flow. Hence the action of the pump is severely hampered and cavitation is inevitable (plenty of physical evidence of cavitation). and also;

b. the outflow ducting from the pump and its interface with the port into the block, have a number of significant sharp edge protrusions interfering with the path of the coolant flow. Cavitation and major bubble formation is thus further exacerbated.

To make matters worse, the occurrence of bitumen is cumulative and cannot be removed by any amount of routine servicing or flushing without removal of the sump.

The problem here is defective design. The sump drain plug is positioned well above the lowest point. Thus the sump cannot be properly drained. Interestingly, the oil; uptake draws right from the very bottom of the sump (witness marks on the bottom of the sump and careful measurements prove this to be the case. So when heated, the bitumen accumulation is circulated through the lubricating system.

Mine failed because varnish from the bitumen set around the cam followers so that when I went to start it from cold, crunch clack clack clack whir whir and cam shafts were damaged, cam cogs, chain and guides were mangled.

Sorry this is so long. There is plenty more, like with hindsight how to detect the onset and prevent failure occurring. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

By the way, on rebuild, I had the gasket calibrated to overcome the restriction problem and the surface friction effect: Also, I spent a little time smoothing the flow path for the coolant and I repositioned the sump drain and shaped the bottom so that every last drop can be drained at any reasonable vehicle angle. Bitumen will never again be a problem in my engine.

I have also introduced a thermocouple permanently into the sump to monitor sump oil temperature. Oil temp now runs between 85 and 87 Degrees Celsius and peaks at 94 Degrees Celsius under heavy load climbing. Oil company representatives had previously told me that Toyota LandCruiser sump temperatures ran normally at 100 Degrees Celsius plus. Proof is in the pudding for me and I am very happy indeed with the results of my study and work.

Kind regards,

Roy Edgar in Canberra, Australia "

 

[astroboy]

a. The restricted coolant flow: This is intended by the designer because the coolant takes time to transfer heat. Just like the returning tube for the aircond cooling agent back into the aircond radiator is always bigger in diameter than the outlet hose.

b. The oil sump drain bolt is not located at the lowest point of the sump: This is intended to protect the drain outlet from being damaged when being hit by foreign object while the vehicle is being driven, more so for a 4x4 due to the rough terrain expected. In worst case, the drain bolt can be drag out upon such impact and causing lost of engine oil.

The N46 drain bolt is at the lowest point of the sump, faced down while the N52 is face backwards.

Bitumen is mineral, so mineral oil will end up as bitumen given the right condition while it should not happen to synthetic chemical based oil, I think.. :smokin:

 

[Schwepps]

Dunno la. I wonder whether he actually found bitumen or whether it was just sludge. He said "moreover it formed from pyrolization of the organic fractions remaining in the base oil from the refining process" Uhh...pyrolization? Anyway 'base oil from the refining process' means he was using a mineral or semi-syn oil. A fully syn oil is not refined, it's synthesized. Which makes it much more homogenous and so, much more sludge-proof.

Anyway, here's an article advocating timely oil changes to prevent sludge. There's also a para for those who like to run a bit low on oil. :wink:

http://www.yotarepair.com/sludge article.html

 

[astroboy]

Counting the days....

17 months old E90 320i, 23k km on the odo, spoke to Ingress today, was told I should send my car only when the OBC display "service advice".. and according to the SA, BMW now has a new guidelines on the BSRI service condition, the oil change only covers:

a. OBC has a "service advice" which will alert the FOB, pass the FOB to the SA to generate the report, then only SC can claim BMW Malaysia the service, with that report, or

b. 25km oredi, :stupid: or

c. 24 months oredi.. :stupid:

*&^%$#@!!

 

[bimmerdude]

I thought someone here in the forum already mentioned that new BMW policy is to have oil change earlier than 25km due to premature engine failure (in our tropics)? its now something like every 10k?
and, didnt the official service bulletin in the US recommend that engine oil is changed every year no matter what the mileage?

so, astro, where did u get the information from? the SA? or official BMW Malaysia? Information can be very misleading, depending on where we get if from, doesnt it?

we all know that depending on the OBC to tell us when to do an oil change is a BIG NO NO.

17 months old E90 320i, 23k km on the odo, spoke to Ingress today, was told I should send my car only when the OBC display "service advice".. and according to the SA, BMW now has a new guidelines on the BSRI service condition, the oil change only covers:

a. OBC has a "service advice" which will alert the FOB, pass the FOB to the SA to generate the report, then only SC can claim BMW Malaysia the service, with that report, or

b. 25km oredi, :stupid: or

c. 24 months oredi.. :stupid:

*&^%$#@!!

 

[kyosang]

engine will not burn engine oil when working normal,must be some problem with piston rings.......check specialist

 

[astroboy]

I thought someone here in the forum already mentioned that new BMW policy is to have oil change earlier than 25km due to premature engine failure (in our tropics)? its now something like every 10k?
and, didnt the official service bulletin in the US recommend that engine oil is changed every year no matter what the mileage?

so, astro, where did u get the information from? the SA? or official BMW Malaysia? Information can be very misleading, depending on where we get if from, doesnt it?

we all know that depending on the OBC to tell us when to do an oil change is a BIG NO NO.

1. Yes, Juan Powerblow did mentioned about some update to the oil change policy.

2. Yes, BMW Malaysia did not denied the existence of the service bulletin that says must replace engine oil every 12 months regardless of odo reading, all BMW Malaysia asked me to do is to talk to SC. And when I talk to SC, they say if OBC no oil change advice, BMW Malaysia will deny their oil change claim under BSRI.

I spoke to Ingress Auto service advisor by the name of Razak today 23/5/09, at 8.15am.

By the way, my friend's E60 525i still stuck in Sapura (more than 2 weeks lio..), warranty just over with near 60k mileage, only one BSRI service done as advice by OBC. Sludge too serious and flushing can't help. Need to buka engine! He finally got a courtesy E60 523i though, but he complain way under power..

Maybe he should claim a new engine..

 

[Schwepps]

Let's face it, BMW here at least has never been known to provide great service. It's an attitude which is hard to understand in this day and age. Even national car companies are miles better now. Our little Myvi is out of warranty, but when we sent it in for clunky brakes recently, the SA said: "Saya cuba claim warranty." And she did! They changed the front brake assembly and didn't charge us one sen. Can't imagine walking out of any BMW dealer post-warranty without a big hole in my pocket!

 

[racheltoh]

my last service with IA, i asked the technician to fix something. which is out of the norm from the BSRI. they did it foc la. now the thing is loose again. so can i go n ask them to re-do for free? the item was not record down.

 

[astroboy]

my last service with IA, i asked the technician to fix something. which is out of the norm from the BSRI. they did it foc la. now the thing is loose again. so can i go n ask them to re-do for free? the item was not record down.

If I go, semua tak boleh.. must be my face..

 

[Schwepps]

Rachel, if it's something that comes with the car, they should fix it under BSRI, no question. But not if it's an aftermarket add-on. What exactly is this thing that's loose...yellow 'Hot chick at the wheel' sign on your rear windscreen?