Lost control on the raining day!

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Demon,

Wouldnt that take the "fun" element away if everything is "programmed"?

Driving wouldnt be that "exciting" anymore.....the sheer driving pleasure would be gone, although I do agree it would do heaps for safety but then people wouldnt be gaining experience to counter react nasty situations....oh....I forgot, by then I presume that there wouldnt be any nasty situations.....car your wouldnt allow that....it does not compute.

"You'll never know how low you can go.....until you slide off" - Freddie Spencer

its true Okow... fun and programmed does not equal. when we flow too much towards the programmed then we limit ourselves from the fun and when we flow too much towards the fun we then to limit on the programmed.

saying that i still want my genee... optional in a bottle or not...

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Nice quote. For cars it should be....

"You will never know how fast you can go.... until you go off-road. "

bro off-road then have to change settin already or else... hole in the pocket...

 

[wglee]

Food for thought: http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=221965

Note: DSC is BMW's name for ESP.

 

[Schwepps]

Hi all, this has been a most informative thread on the whyfores of sliding into armco barriers I'd like to add one more - reducing-radius curves. Highway on and off ramps should ideally be constant-radius curves, but in this country, for lack of space or some other reason, a lot of our ramps are reducing-radius, where the curve starts with a larger radius than it ends.

This is all the more lethal when it's downsloping, has little or no positive camber, and is wet. Getting off a highway doing 110kmh (or more) and going into a curve just lifting off the gas, it feels like the car will hold it easily. So you're in a BM with DSC, and you don't want to look like a sissy (especially if there's someone nice sitting beside you) So you sheepishly step on the gas again. You don't realise the curve is going to get tighter and tighter, and you should actually be slowing down instead of holding speed or even accelerating. Screeeeech! Whammm!

The most famous reducing-radius curve that I know is the exit from Damansara Heights on Semantan into a 270 onto Duta, city-bound. The armco was replaced years ago with concrete. A positive camber was introduced where it used to be neutral. But our innovative engineers also decided to replace tarmac with interlocking pavers which are okay in the dry, but lethal in the wet. The concrete barriers have seen the bumpers and other body parts of hundreds of cars over the years. There's a fresh mark, or several, every Monday morning after the weekend's late night macho dashes into town from a Bangsar or Hartamas watering hole. I always look for them and find them easily every Monday morning

Unfortunately the eye can't tell you that a curve is reducing-radius and only experience of that particular curve can. My advice is, be aware that highway building and approval standards are not exactly consistent in this country (refer MRR2, new Kuantan Highway, etc, etc.) Don't think that all highway ramps are consistently well-engineered and well-built. Be extra cautious on 270 degree on and off ramps going downhill, unless you know them well.

My 2 sen, KL2DC

 

[3er]

You mean negative camber instead of positive, right? (Or did i get that the other way around?) Ah. My fav off-on ramp. Seen a few (understeer) crashes there right in front of my eyes too. This is where the 50/50 balance comes in. I just love squeezing the throttle on the exit. I prefer the feeling in my then E36 "Green Hornet" than my current E46 at that point in time.

 

[thinice]

The most famous reducing-radius curve that I know is the exit from Damansara Heights on Semantan into a 270 onto Duta, city-bound. The armco was replaced years ago with concrete. A positive camber was introduced where it used to be neutral. But our innovative engineers also decided to replace tarmac with interlocking pavers which are okay in the dry, but lethal in the wet. The concrete barriers have seen the bumpers and other body parts of hundreds of cars over the years. There's a fresh mark, or several, every Monday morning after the weekend's late night macho dashes into town from a Bangsar or Hartamas watering hole. I always look for them and find them easily every Monday morning

Yeah, that curve is particularly lethal. It is the type of "you never know what hit you" kind of thing.

And I could not for the life of me understand the need for the interlocking pavers. Yeah, it introduces vibration to your ride that may compel you to slow down but I don't believe it is part of standard specs for highway ramps.

 

[KL2DC]

Mr. Schwepps has returned...

Your post do bring up one important point and a point we've barely touched on this continuing and evolving thread discussion...

I suppose there is no right way of pushing your car's limits on public street, it's all wrong. As opposed to a dedicated track or auto-x track there is very little or no margin for error (as many posters have alluded) and the potential for collateral damage is great. This is especially so if you are not familiar with the nuances of that corner or stretch of street/highway. I would also throw in open ended variables or uncertainties like road debris and tainted road surface.

As many of us know here, the best way to carry speed through a corner depends on the racing line. Taking the optimal line ensures proper loading into the corner and if proper prudence and skill/talent is present, it is possible to achieve high limits while keeping within the limitations of tire and road grip. In an unfamiliar situation (dark, rainy and new to the area) it is juvenile (to say the least) to push your car as you would be unaware of the proper line to take as well as the presence of road hazards only intimate familiarity with the route would register.

I do find that KL's roads are entertaining, there are some nice off and on ramps and the highways are generally well-maintained. Please fellow forummers, as tempting as the road 'courses' are and as spurring as your car goes, please keep within the limits of your talent/skill, road/weather conditions and of your car. I am not discouraging ocassional spirited driving on the way to the shops (I am guilty of that, as well) but iIf you want to push or test your car to the limit, take it to the track. The recommendation of the HPC for e.g. is a good avenue. Just because we own/drive BMW's doesn't give us the exclusive license to turn the world into a racetrack. Please do not feed into the negative stereotype of BMW drivers. And most importantly, please buckle up and drive safely.

This public message announcement brought to you by KL2DC

My $0.02, Mr. Schwepps...

 

[Schwepps]

Positive camber, 3er. A curve should have positive camber built in, and the sharper and longer it is, the more positive it should be. Then the steering should feel neutral as you go round. In a level (neutral) curve, you may have to push on the steering wheel a bit to maintain the same line. In an off-camber (negative) curve, a much stronger push on the steering will be needed to hold the line.

The next time you guys do the Semantan curve, try holding your entry speed all the way around. You'll notice that you have to push harder and harder on the steering wheel the further round you go. Indeed you'll even have to turn it more and more. That's a reducing-radius curve with insufficient positive camber.

A lethal off-camber curve is the 90 degree right just after the traffic lights going from Bkt Kiara onto Jln Damansara heading towards PJ. Just after the apex, the road slopes off into the armco. Once a young man in front of me did some fancy weaving to make his way to the front of the queue and at the lights did a smart turn at about 50kmh. He hit the apex, his rear-end lifted and he slid on the off-camber into the armco. Too embarrassed by his SIW to stop, he sped off. He only stopped after the Phileo toll to inspect the damage to his left rear side.

Appreciate your words on pushing cars on public streets, KL2DC. In most instances, these "dunno what hit them" prangs are the driver's own fault. But some of these road engineering difficiencies are also unfair to less experienced drivers in less capable cars too.

And yes, thinice, which great road engineer decided it would be better to use interlocking pavers in the Semantan curve? Those are meant for decoration, not heavy-use highways, and they're actually slippery when wet. Even concrete is not the standard on curved ramps. The standard is rough tarmac (forget the name) with raised yellow stripes laid in reducing spacings to slow drivers down. But some clever engineer thought home driveway pavers would be better and an even cleverer engineer approved it. Gaaaaah!!

 

[jester]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to share an unfortunate experience incident happened today... As I was driving back to my office today... My UDM suddenly spin out of control and hit the highway's divided! Damn! I was warned by my mechanic few weeks back when I do oil changed. He told me to be careful while driving on the wet surface, there has been few insurance claims related to this incident. While rushing back to office today, I obviously didn't put much attention to he words... Bang! I though It'll be a big hit. Thank God, it was only my front bumper and luckily no other cars involved... Scarely .

So, for those who drives E46, pls be careful while driving on the wet surface. The wide tyres on our car is only good on dry road condition....

Going to AB tomorrow, wonder that how long would it take to get it back now??

sorry to hear your unfortunate close encounter with the barrier, bro.

btw, did your airbag burst?

 

[Jules]

being an engineer myself - yes some of the civil engineer's choice of design is questionable....hence being familiar with the roads are always beneficial!

Otherwise, u adapt ur driving to suit i.e. late apex, brake, declutch etc in a straight line....

just to share another potential accident stretch...for those coming very fast up ramp leaving KESAS to join LDP ( Sunway/PJ bound ) - please do all ur braking before turning cos the joint in the road will pitch u up and u have to be turning at this point.....

Safe driving dun happen by accident.....its by EDUCATION!

 

[3er]

A lethal off-camber curve is the 90 degree right just after the traffic lights going from Bkt Kiara onto Jln Damansara heading towards PJ. Just after the apex, the road slopes off into the armco. Once a young man in front of me did some fancy weaving to make his way to the front of the queue and at the lights did a smart turn at about 50kmh. He hit the apex, his rear-end lifted and he slid on the off-camber into the armco. Too embarrassed by his SIW to stop, he sped off. He only stopped after the Phileo toll to inspect the damage to his left rear side.

Oh, i know that one very well. My sister had a prang there and i had to go play hero to rescue her late one night. Damage to her 2002 Civic: front left fender and quarter panel, left signal light.

 

[fabianyee]

Oh, i know that one very well. My sister had a prang there and i had to go play hero to rescue her late one night. Damage to her 2002 Civic: front left fender and quarter panel, left signal light.

That is one stupid way to make road... Definitely can go into the 'Hall of Shame of Malaysia roads'. I wonder if there's a blog or website documenting substandard roads in Malaysia.. It'll be a good way to get the authority to look into them.. It's a shame that our government made claims that we have one of the most advance road network in the Asean region. We may have the road networks which looks nice on the map, but it's a disappointment once you actually drive on these roads.

 

[tanks]

sorry to hear your unfortunate close encounter with the barrier, bro.

btw, did your airbag burst?

Hmm... That keep me wondering as well.... My airbag didn't activate!!! Friends told me may be it didn't trigger the sensor (Means the car can tells I'm safe, don't need airbag)!!

 

[Schwepps]

Maybe your car retarded by the spin and not by impact, and so the airbags wouldn't have deployed? You should get the system checked though.

Maybe also it was the road engineering that caused your accident, and not your car, tires or driving

Not all on-off ramps are bad. I find PLUS highways to be pretty well built and well maintained. Some of the other highway builders ought to be hammered though, for building unsafe highways and still charging us tolls. It all boils down to the department that manages the design, building and commissioning of highways. We all know which one that is...right now they're busy putting up steel supports to prevent MRR2 from collapsing

 

[Schwepps]

Wanna know another gila ramp? The left turn onto Penchala Link/Mont Kiara. Tight, narrow, splits into 2 ways AND off-camber! And there'll be bad drivers who are daydreaming and suddenly have to make a decision whether to go left or right...without signalling.

Tell me why the Concessionaire and the Department can leave this ramp like that for the past 3 years?

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

That is one stupid way to make road... Definitely can go into the 'Hall of Shame of Malaysia roads'. I wonder if there's a blog or website documenting substandard roads in Malaysia.. It'll be a good way to get the authority to look into them.. It's a shame that our government made claims that we have one of the most advance road network in the Asean region. We may have the road networks which looks nice on the map, but it's a disappointment once you actually drive on these roads.

our roads are supposed to be one of the best roads in the world. the amount of projects awarded some xxxx bhd and yyyyy bhd in the middle east are just a huge question. maybe we can write in an official letter from the club with all our signatures and send it to the ministry + media people...

If never do now, we will still be only talkin about it in years to come...

 

[jester]

also notice a wicked right hand kink on the elevated hiway from kl to ampang point.

that part of the hiway was suppose to be an exit but was cancelled in the last minute or something.

 

[Schwepps]

A lot of these imperfections were supposed to be temporary situations pending completion, including the kink in elevated highway you mentioned and the Penchala/Kiara turn off. But then the highway gets opened and the builder conveniently forgets to complete it and is ALLOWED to forget by the authority, for some 'strange' reason. Save cost mah....

Meanwhile, unlucky (toll-paying) drivers pay millions in repair costs, not to mention injury and loss of life.

Take Semantan curve for instance: if it were situated in the US or other countries, you'd have hordes of lawyers setting up video cams in the old houses above the curve, recording every incident for evidence. Every prang there, they'd come streaming down the slope with their calling cards in hand. The builder and govt authority would have been sued to the tune of BILLIONS by now, as there have been hundreds, if not thousands of prangs there over the years.

That doesn't happen here. Nobody is ever at fault for anything bad that happens.

 

[okow]

Guy, guys, on the "softer" side of things, those of you who have travelled around our region must admit that we DO have very good roads indeed. Lets be fair too, compare our roads to Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia we have excellent roads. Yes, there are quite a few "controversial" off camber, brick wall in your face to bounce you back to hit another vehicle barriers, armco's with edges sharp enough to slice a biker into two (no joke, that really happened many years ago but it was a high tension wire), uncovered monsoon drains large enough to swallow and drown all of you, your car and all your passengers....but heck we do really some really nice roads....dont you agree?
Take the back roads for some....the Ulu Yam streatch, Karak, Batang Kali - Ampang Pecah, Bkt Tinggi, East West, North-South H/way...and many many more...Our rural roads also exceed that of those countries mentioned by far...
All h/ways leading into KL city are if not at par even exceed standards in some in developed countries.

 

[Schwepps]

Fully agree with you that we have a lot to be thankful for. PLUS highways are as good as any in developed countries. I'm not sure I agree with benchmarking against less developed countries though.