BMW 325i vs Merc C250 CGI vs Audi A4 2.0TFSI Quattro vs Volkswagen Passat CC

[Morganl]

deleted deleted deleted

 

[Morganl]

thanks for all your suggestions... one of the reason why I'm thinking to switch out of BMW is because BMW Malaysia seems to have lost their 'touch' with the customer on the ground.... the satisfaction of driving a BMW is not there anymore and their pricing strategy had been getting more & more screwed up. I mean, why price it 30k-40k more when you know that you are going to give out 30k discount later for Demo car/training car/pre-reg car? that pricing strategy undercut buyers who wants to get a brand new car, but these ppl will be put off by the huge amount of discount that BMW Malaysia is giving to those pre-reg/demo/training cars....

so eventually every one waits for BMW to clear stock, have innovation days, trash more training cars, so that they can finally get their hands on the precious little baby that had been trashed left right center by someone else like him/her b4..... and don't think this will not have an impact on your resell value later as everyone is using the 'pre-reg/demo/training' car price as their benchmark price now instead of the official 'list price' which means nothing apart from been printed on a BMW paper nowadays....

X1 price in HK is the same as 320i.... over here, u can get a pre-reg 320i + a Toyota Avanza, mod it to be 'on-par' with your 320i and still have some spare change for petrol & accessories/poison for your 320i... X5 is suppose to be a direct competiting product with Q5, but in Msia, if u r gunning brand new X5, chances are you can get 2 Q5 already....

The 3 series is practically the slowest car among it's peer, down to the point where even a reasonably mod Avanza oso can beat the crap out of 320i.... talking about 'Ultimate Driving Machine'..... otherwise why do you think BMW Malaysia had to bring in the 320d variant even though the diesel here is not suitable and you can only pump it at petronas??

E60 had always given a very clear 'upgrade path' for the owner for 3 series.... once you had enuff of your 3 series, you always know in your mind what car will be your next ride.....but with the launch of F10, that 'upgrade path' just disappear in front of me over-night....the styling/design of F10 is not really a replacement for E60 but rather a "7-series-wanna-be'...

let's not forget that the F10 is a SKD model from Thailand too, so why pay a freaking premium for something that's made in Thailand? If you are going to use AP to bring in cars, why Thailand made and not Germany made? All Malaysian really believe that crap about Thailand can build better cars than Germany????

Since the new F10 is priced higher than the new E class baseline model (E200 CGI), I won't be surprise if they start giving huge discount on F10 once their sales starts to slow down.... There's F10 demo car available for sales already (8k mileage)... and E200 CGI is in no way less capable than the F10 525i....

If VW/Audi can price their fully imported made in Germany cars at the same price range with BMW (CKD/SKD model), what kind of margin BMW Malaysia is trying to make here? This kind of 'milk your customer to the maximum' profit retaining model will eventually come back to haunt them as this strategy is not customer retentive friendly at all.... that's how VW is canibalizing 3 series sales in Malaysia...

Let's look at all the arguement we are making here about 'both cars are not comparable, we are only comparing these cars with BMW because they are priced at the same range'.. don't you think that there's a big problem with that arguement? How could these car ended up within the same price range as a BMW when these cars are fully imported from Germany versus a locally CKD BMW?

VW cars are fully imported from Germany or South Africa, not CKD/SKD, 5 years warranty, unlimited mileage.... BMW? Pre-reg, CKD or made in Thailand, 3 years or 60k mileage BSRI, and then they tell you oppsss... you gotta send your car to service every 7.5k km interval instead of the 'recommended' 15k km....

I was actually giving the new E Class a very serious consideration..... up till the point where I asked for the colour that I want (available even in show room), and they told me it's no longer in production, and that "Rich ppl don't choose colour 1, they are fine with any colour between black and silver, and we are even offering white colour in addition to those 2".... if I'm paying almost 400k for a car, I think I deserve to at least pick the colour of my choice, don't I????

Q5 waiting period is too freaking long, no doubt Audi make good car, but I'm not sure if Audi Malaysia means business with that kind of rediculous waiting period... and if I need to wait 1 year to get a brand new car, guess how long it'll take for them to get spare parts if something went wrong with the 'brand new car'? It's amazing how the grey importers are pricing a recond used car same price with a brand new car.... probably you won't get to see this kind of amusement anywhere else...

so my conclusion is that Msia car market is really a mess..... it's even more difficult to choose between Najib & Badawi to be honest..... that's why I'm still confused on what car I should really get to replace my 'Ultimate Super Fast Driving Machine That Lose To Everyone Else'...

 

[Morganl]

deleted deleted deleted again & again & again

 

[Morganl]

even posting on this thread oso susah... really dunno what's wrong with anything that's associated with BMW lately....

 

[Schwepps]

The Golf GTI is a great car, and it's iconic too. From a pure car point of view, it's a good choice.

There are other considerations though, eg: BMW/Audi/Merc are premium brands, VW is mass market....quite a big space difference...etc. If these considerations don't affect you, the GTI is a good choice.

 

[Morganl]

The Golf GTI is a great car, and it's iconic too. From a pure car point of view, it's a good choice.

There are other considerations though, eg: BMW/Audi/Merc are premium brands, VW is mass market....quite a big space difference...etc. If these considerations don't affect you, the GTI is a good choice.

yea.. that's 1 of my consideration now... was thinking to upgrade to F10 525i or E200 CGI, but I think I can still afford to stay away from the E class ah pek image for few more years..... so maybe will switch to GTI and have a few more years of fun instead though it's a cheaper car compared to BMW....

 

[lewint]

Morganl, considering that you are looking at the C250 CGI and have a budget of RM320k, maybe you should take a look at the C300 Avantgarde which is about to be launched on our fine shores.

I saw it at the dealership yesterday. I've been told that it is a CKD model and will be priced at around RM320k.

Comes with a 3.0-litre V6 engine, 228 bhp and 300 Nm between 2500–5000 rpm, paired to the 7G-TRONIC transmission.

Compared to the current line of W204's, the front and rear bumpers have been redesigned, it comes with LED daytime running lights instead of halogen fog lamps, 18 inch wheels front and rear, front wheels get cross-drilled disc brakes and dual exhaust pipes as with all Mercedes cars equipped with a V6 engine and mated to the seven-speed 7G-Tronic automatic transmission.

Interior, similar to the C230 but with the addition of aluminium pedals, cup holder inserts in the centre console and a LED daytime running lights switch (from the looks of it). Plus the instrument cluster is the round, hollow design instead of the flat instrument cluster found in the C230.

Similar to the C230, it comes with a "Sports" button, when depressed, provides shorter gear ratios for a more responsive throttle, stiffer suspension and a tighter steering.

Looking for a C segment luxury sedan with the smooth and refined feeling of a 6 cylinder engine? I think this would be your best bet looking at what is currently on offer in the marketplace.

 

[lewint]

more pictures.

 

[lewint]

more pics.

 

[Schwepps]

yea.. that's 1 of my consideration now... was thinking to upgrade to F10 525i or E200 CGI, but I think I can still afford to stay away from the E class ah pek image for few more years..... so maybe will switch to GTI and have a few more years of fun instead though it's a cheaper car compared to BMW....

Performance, handling, price, image, looks, aftersales service, running costs, interior space, purpose of the car...all play a part in the owner's satisfaction. What's important to others may not be so important to you. Only YOU can know what counts for you.

 

[Morganl]

Morganl, considering that you are looking at the C250 CGI and have a budget of RM320k, maybe you should take a look at the C300 Avantgarde which is about to be launched on our fine shores.

I saw it at the dealership yesterday. I've been told that it is a CKD model and will be priced at around RM320k.

Comes with a 3.0-litre V6 engine, 228 bhp and 300 Nm between 2500–5000 rpm, paired to the 7G-TRONIC transmission.

Compared to the current line of W204's, the front and rear bumpers have been redesigned, it comes with LED daytime running lights instead of halogen fog lamps, 18 inch wheels front and rear, front wheels get cross-drilled disc brakes and dual exhaust pipes as with all Mercedes cars equipped with a V6 engine and mated to the seven-speed 7G-Tronic automatic transmission.

Interior, similar to the C230 but with the addition of aluminium pedals, cup holder inserts in the centre console and a LED daytime running lights switch (from the looks of it). Plus the instrument cluster is the round, hollow design instead of the flat instrument cluster found in the C230.

Similar to the C230, it comes with a "Sports" button, when depressed, provides shorter gear ratios for a more responsive throttle, stiffer suspension and a tighter steering.

Looking for a C segment luxury sedan with the smooth and refined feeling of a 6 cylinder engine? I think this would be your best bet looking at what is currently on offer in the marketplace.

sorry bro... I was not the original post owner with 320k budget....

but yea, I'd check out the C300 too last week..... didn't ask for test drive, but the car is on display... SA told me C250 CGI still beat C300 in terms of performance, and the only real advantages is the 7G-tronic gear over the C250 CGI that's still using the 5 speed gear & the AMG tuned suspension & handling...

it has the same ugly pop-up LCD Screen as the C250 CGI, something that spoil the whole 'luxury' feel of the car completely....

 

[Morganl]

Performance, handling, price, image, looks, aftersales service, running costs, interior space, purpose of the car...all play a part in the owner's satisfaction. What's important to others may not be so important to you. Only YOU can know what counts for you.

Golf GTI has the performance but BM has the image.... running costs wise, my BSRI is ending in another 7 months, so no diff after that... tough choice.... why can't BM just build a car that have good performance to earn them the right to brag again about 'Ultimate Driving Machine'???

right now, that title is just a joke to me....

 

[Schwepps]

You sound pretty bitter about your BMW experience, but I think the 3-er still beats all in the class in terms of handling and driveability performance. In power performance...well you've got to compare apples with apples. Try the 335i or even the 325i and 320d, and see how they compare with the equivalent-engined Mercs, Audis and GTIs.

BMW's aftersales is definitely not as good as Merc's. But it's also not as pricey (from experience) How good are Audi and VW aftersales? I don't know. But I bet the grass only looks greener on the other side.

 

[lewint]

sorry bro... I was not the original post owner with 320k budget....

but yea, I'd check out the C300 too last week..... didn't ask for test drive, but the car is on display... SA told me C250 CGI still beat C300 in terms of performance, and the only real advantages is the 7G-tronic gear over the C250 CGI that's still using the 5 speed gear & the AMG tuned suspension & handling...

it has the same ugly pop-up LCD Screen as the C250 CGI, something that spoil the whole 'luxury' feel of the car completely....

oh sorry about that. my mistake. haha.

hmm call me old school but i still believe somewhat that there is no replacement for displacement. no doubt the C250 CGI is a fine machine with ample power. but it is still a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder engine with a clanky sound both at start-up and during normal driving conditions. relatively smooth no doubt, but not refined.

also, the turbo lag is very evident. when you step on it, the car will inch forward a little and then a sensational rush of power will come on. this is true for both the C200 and C250 CGI. the CGI line is in serious need of a bi turbo. like bmw's twin scroll and VW's twincharger. if u have been driving an NA car, you will have to adjust your throttling or you will find it jerky and uncomfortable.

in the absence of the C300, i would take the C250 CGI over anything else currently in its market segment. but with a V6 engine and the extra goodies it comes with, the C300 moves to the top of the list.

once you have driven a 6 potter, i think its hard to go back to a 4 potter la. the "feel" is no longer there. haha.

 

[Morganl]

You sound pretty bitter about your BMW experience, but I think the 3-er still beats all in the class in terms of handling and driveability performance. In power performance...well you've got to compare apples with apples. Try the 335i or even the 325i and 320d, and see how they compare with the equivalent-engined Mercs, Audis and GTIs.

BMW's aftersales is definitely not as good as Merc's. But it's also not as pricey (from experience) How good are Audi and VW aftersales? I don't know. But I bet the grass only looks greener on the other side.

not really bitter experience.... I'd been driving 3 series since E46 era for quite some time.... 318i manual, 320i, 320d, 325i manual, E60 523i and E60 525i.... haven't tried out 335i b4 though.... just a bit disappointed at the pricing strategy by BMW Malaysia as well as the lack of continuous emphasis on driver's experience (since they are calling themselves Ultimate Driving Machine) by BMW....

I'd heard horrible stories about Audi service experience but I guess that's expected... what kind of service can you seriously expect from a company that can only deliver a product to you 1 year later, right?

I have no experience at all with VW yet... but I won't have high hopes for now as their service capcacity is still quite low compared to BMW.....

 

[Morganl]

oh sorry about that. my mistake. haha.

hmm call me old school but i still believe somewhat that there is no replacement for displacement. no doubt the C250 CGI is a fine machine with ample power. but it is still a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder engine with a clanky sound both at start-up and during normal driving conditions. relatively smooth no doubt, but not refined.

also, the turbo lag is very evident. when you step on it, the car will inch forward a little and then a sensational rush of power will come on. this is true for both the C200 and C250 CGI. the CGI line is in serious need of a bi turbo. like bmw's twin scroll and VW's twincharger. if u have been driving an NA car, you will have to adjust your throttling or you will find it jerky and uncomfortable.

in the absence of the C300, i would take the C250 CGI over anything else currently in its market segment. but with a V6 engine and the extra goodies it comes with, the C300 moves to the top of the list.

once you have driven a 6 potter, i think its hard to go back to a 4 potter la. the "feel" is no longer there. haha.

maybe I'm ignorant, or maybe because I was using company cars and couldn't be bothered, that's why I never actually notice the 6 potter versus 4 potter experience when I was switching in between 320i, 320d, 325, 318i, and 523i, 525i..... maybe I should go to Ingress Auto to arrange for another test drive on 325i to refresh my memory on what I'd missed on BMW line up....

arggg... how I miss those days of company cars.... save you so much hassle of having to decide what car you should get for urself....

 

[FIRZ67]

maybe I'm ignorant, or maybe because I was using company cars and couldn't be bothered, that's why I never actually notice the 6 potter versus 4 potter experience when I was switching in between 320i, 320d, 325, 318i, and 523i, 525i..... maybe I should go to Ingress Auto to arrange for another test drive on 325i to refresh my memory on what I'd missed on BMW line up....

arggg... how I miss those days of company cars.... save you so much hassle of having to decide what car you should get for urself....

Wow Morganl! You drive so many BMWs before as company car? Which company do you work with?

 

[EuJax]

Morganl, just randomly sharing a thought here. How about a used W203 C 32 AMG? 4 door and pretty comfortable in compare to e46 M3, not very expensive at this time. But its used nevertheless....

Just a thought sometimes that having a brand new 320d can get u a used M3....its quite a vast difference of driving pleasure BUT maintenance is a different story. Just finding it hard to buy a brand new car these days...my humble opinion with my limited low income. Of course, for people who earn enough, why not.

 

[supergripen]

Morganl, just randomly sharing a thought here. How about a used W203 C 32 AMG? 4 door and pretty comfortable in compare to e46 M3, not very expensive at this time. But its used nevertheless....

Just a thought sometimes that having a brand new 320d can get u a used M3....its quite a vast difference of driving pleasure BUT maintenance is a different story. Just finding it hard to buy a brand new car these days...my humble opinion with my limited low income. Of course, for people who earn enough, why not.

I feel u brother... our car scene here in Bolehland is just SAD.High taxes(hence the prices) are forced upon us to protect a local car industry that just wouldn't progress to allow it to compete.ANd we are paying the price for it..
Everywhere else in the world,the middle class is able to afford cars that is commensurate with the status that they carry..NOT HERE.We are forced to pay extremely high prices to enjoy cars that are meant for us,instead,some are forced to buy inferior local makes or make do with used non-national makes.

 

[Schwepps]

Wow Morganl! You drive so many BMWs before as company car? Which company do you work with?

BMW company cars are pretty common in Europe I think. Two of my nephews in their mid-twenties working in mid-sized corporates have 320d company cars.