BMW 325i vs Merc C250 CGI vs Audi A4 2.0TFSI Quattro vs Volkswagen Passat CC

  • Click here to become an Official Member of BMW Club Malaysia Download Form
Haha...the statement from VW is probably to encourage potential buyers to purchase now rather than waiting for the CKD units which everyone perceived to be cheaper.

If the statement is indeed true, then which models will be assembled in Pekan, other than the Jetta???

Common sense dictates that the CKD models shall be the hotter selling models just like how BMW only assembles the 3 and 5 series in Kulim.

Cheers
 
Yeah, it's a standard (sales) damage control PR piece signed off by their PR lady, not their MD. I would agree with you that the Sirocco and Golf 1.4TSis would be the commercially viable CKDs, leaving the CBUs as the Beetle, Polo, Tuareg, and nearing-end-of-life Passats. It would only make sense to start with the volume base models and then spread out across the variants in the same model line.

It's only an MoU to locally assemble at this stage, and another party can still come in and commit to a full wedding. It only depends on 'how Polo they are' :) DRB will, as in the past, step aside if told to do so.

PS: Correction - The Inspira has 'suspensions engineered by Lotus-trained Proton engineers'. Small whooooo only...
 
Well only time will tell. Bundy is right, it makes most sense to CKD the run of the mill high volume cars instead of niche models.

My guess is that it could be the Jetta, Vento or even and Polo's with the lower end engine lineups (e.g 85 bhp 1.4) to compete with the Japanese CKD cars here. The turbo TSi's and GTi's could still be CBU only.
 
Agree that the Polo would also be a CKD candidate. Jetta and Vento? Well they usually test the market with CBUs before they CKD in a model. There would be some overlap if they do it because the Jetta is the cause of the Passat's demise in the States. Doesn't make so much marketing sense. I think they may want to occupy a different space from the lower end national and Jap offerings, leveraging on the semi-premium status of VW here.
 
Schwepps;580992 said:
The statement is from Volkswagen Group Malaysia? The same guys who are pushing the Passat CC on us without telling us that 2010 is the last model year for the US market in favour of a new midsized model to be introduced 2011? Uh huh, right... :rolleyes:

The only thing that's for sure right now is that the Hicom VWs won't have 'Lotus-engineered suspensions' like the Inspira. Whooooo! :24:

It is the Passat that has been updated, not the Passat CC.
 
How long do you think the Passat CC is gonna last without a US market for the Passat sedan? One more model year for the entire model range in ROW I reckon. It's a dead duck.
 
Schwepps;581236 said:
How long do you think the Passat CC is gonna last without a US market for the Passat sedan? One more model year for the entire model range in ROW I reckon. It's a dead duck.

I think it will survive, it's aiming for a different market than the Passat and it doesn't share any body panels with the Passat so essentially aside from sharing the name, it's a different car.
 
Morgan, I can completely understand your view of BMW and I totally agree, and I thought I will share my 2 cents about my experiences with some of the cars mentioned here. Maybe it will give you an insight into your interest in the GTi.

I have owned 2 Audi A4's, a B6 (2 generations back) and a B8 (the current model) and in between the 2 Audis, a E90 325. I am currently driving a Scirocco 2.0T.

Here's my take:-

325
- Engine sound trumps the other cars. The six is really sweet
- Handling trumps the A4's anyday

And honestly, that's all I think of that goes to the 3 because most everything else, it either loses out or is not much better.

Straight line performance - no match for the A4 2.0T nor the Scirocco. I echo what you mentioned about the Beemer being the ultimate driving machine that is slower than all its rivals. The 325 which competes with the A4 2.0T and the C250 does a measly 7.7 to 100kmh whilst the A4 does it in 6.5 and the C250 in the new facelift in 7.1. Bit embarassing for Beemer who is always considered to the most performance oriented amongst the 3 Germans

Handling - can't beat the go-kart feel of the Scirocco. True the 3 handles fast bends and corners well, don't understeer as much as the Scirocco and handles quick directional changes much better than the A4 (the A4 hates directional changes, one quick left and right and the car immediately feels very unsettled) but because the Scirocco handles like a gokart, changing directions back and forth multiple times is zero drama. No body rolls, no unsettled feeling... the car just feels like it's made to do that. Of course I have to qualify this and admit that it is not fair comparing the handling of a 4-door sports saloon to a 2-door coupe.

Interior - BMW looks only slightly better than the VW. Maybe because the interior has not really changed much since the E46 and I have grown tired of it but I find the A4 interior (the B8) so much better, from the nicely placed colored screen in the middle dash, the speedo clarity, the air cond controls

Ride - I actually find the Scirocco which I will termed as "hard ride" to be better than the 3. True the 3 handles well and you have to sacrifice some ride comfort for that but to me, the sacrifice is too much. Again, this is subjective but to me, on days when I just want to sedately drive home after a long day at work... the 325's ride does get on my nerves. A lot of it could be due to the RFT and more than once I have had people telling me if I swap them out for normal tyres, it'll be much improved. But hey, if I had to spend a few more grand on top of what I've paid for to get the car so that I can get more comfort out of it... something must be wrong.

After Sales Service - AB service ain't bad but I won't say it is much better than Euromobil. In both companies, I will say the level of service you get is dependent on who serves you. Just that in AB, there are more of the better service attendants than Euromobil. But once you know who is good and you look for the same guy everytime you make an appointment, then the service level difference becomes minimal. What I have found equally annoying about both companies is that the servicing always takes a day. Go in for a scheduled engine oil change and it takes a full day. That is annoying for me. It takes only an hour to change the engine oil and do the checks that they do but both AB and Euromobil tells you it will take a day when you make an appointment.

Built quality - have to admit that the A4 beats the 3 hands down here. Maybe because the 3 is a CKD and the A4's are CBU. But in the time that I owned both A4 (3 years for the B6 and 2 years for the B8), I have not spent a single cent of repairs. Only thing I've spent on was regular service. On the B6, Euromobil had even changed the air-cond interface on the car citing that there was some problems with it which they had received a memo from Germany and that they are changing all B6's that are still under warranty. Mine had no problems but hey, if they were gonna give me a new interface, why not. As for my 325 (3 years ownership) I have had engine oil problems. Not leaking, but evaporating. The engine oil goes down so fast I had to top up almost every few thousand kms. This from brand new. After a few diagnosis, BMW told me that it is a problem with the engine block itself and they will have to change the entire block. All under warranty of course and they gave me a courtesy car, they went to JPJ to change the engine number on my reg card for me etc but still... how can a brand new car require an engine change. Also... it was a lot tougher to sell the car when the reg card showed an engine change... Have 2 other friends with E46, one had problems with her 320's engine butterfly valves (changed multiple times under warranty) and the other had problems with his 325's gearbox.

Depreciation - believe it or not, I have lost more on the 325 than on both A4's. I had expected to lose less on a Beemer than an Audi but not true.

As for the Scirocco, except for the car having cheaper accessories (lower end sound system, no bluetooth connectivity etc) and of course a less prestigious image compared to the BMW and Audi, the ownership experience is not much difference. The built quality is still very good (I have only had the car for 9 months so maybe it is too early to tell) and the drive and feel is still very German. Service is better in that they do segregate between people who go in for repairs/troubleshooting vs regular scheduled servicing. So to service my car and get an engine oil change, it takes 1 hour. I can actually wait there and seat around. For AB and Euromobil... I have never had a half day turnaround on servicing, let alone 1 hour.

So overall for me, although VW is very much a cheaper car and of course in Germany, is not used in the same breath as the Mercs, Beemers and Audis... but the ownership experience is on par with the other Germans... at least here in Malaysia.

For me the Scirocco is a mid-life crisis go-fast car that I bought to get it out of my system before I really get too old and look like an uncle driving his son's car :) so I never expected to keep it for long. Now that I've driven it for 9 months, I must say that the initial fun of tearing down the road and driving like a maniac has worn off. The impracticalities of a 2-door car, the bumpy ride etc is becoming more obvious. I will probably keep this car for no more than another 9 months to a year and go back to a proper 4-door sedan. Unless the new 2012 3-series really blow me away, I will most likely consider the C250 or the C300. With the new facelift and Merc finally replacing the stupid pop-up display with a proper built-in display, the 7-speed Gtronic now available on the C250 and the new aluminium bonnet that should shave weight and improve performance, it is starting to look more promising.
 
very.informative writeup jonn. I m still going thru my mid life crisis, thus still driving my rx8 manual 4 d last 7 years. yr scirocco sounds interesting. maybe!
 
Nice writeup jonn. Thats a lot of car changes in a Span of a few years! Was your B8 the 2.0T? It should have a much punchier low end torque vs the scirocco ?
 
I always loved the funky looking RX8 but never bought it cos I doubt I could live with a manual in KL and the auto is too detuned for what I wanted to do with a sports coupe :)

E46F - my A4 was the 1.8T cos I couldn't wait for the 2.0T to show up (the 2.0 was launched almost a year after the 1.8). I think someone mentioned it earlier that the A4 is gorgeous but gets old pretty quickly. That was what I was worried about when I was debating whether I shld get the A4 when it was launched here in 1.8 guise or wait a year for the 2.0. I'm glad I didn't cos when I see an A4 now, it looks very tired. I have however driven the 2.0T quite a lot (friend's car) and although on paper it is faster than the Scirocco, you don't feel it. There's no drama, theres no "push you into the seat" feel (becos of the quattro) and there's not much engine sound. So you don't feel like you're accelerating that hard until you see cars going by. That is what I love about my Scirocco and the main reason I chose it over the GTi. The GTi Mk6 is actually faster than the Roc, handles better with more electronic aids but like the A4, it doesn't feel fast, doesn't feel loud, doesn't feel fun. The Roc feels like the Mk5 GTi. Very raw, very loud, very urgent and a slighty happy tail that can step out when you do stupid driving. That is for me, the whole reason of going out and buying a mid life crisis car - a car that is fun, frantic, loud - basically being a kid and making your wife roll her eyes :)

And yes... I tend to go through cars quite quickly... my biggest weakness!
 
E46Fanatic;620159 said:
Nice writeup jonn. Thats a lot of car changes in a Span of a few years! Was your B8 the 2.0T? It should have a much punchier low end torque vs the scirocco ?

Looks like u've bought yourself an Audi... which model?
 
supergripen;620203 said:
The e90's ride in Msport guise really does get on your nerves..

Coming from a Scooby fan, that's a bit strange! :1: It doesn't get on mine...
 
Like Jonn I think I am going through MLC too. But not daring enuff to get a Roc as a daily driver :). Sold the 4 door E90. 325i and booked an A5 2.0TQ from EM (with 19' wheel option in my avatar and panoramic roof). Wanted red as well but chickened out last min amd booked white. Car will only arrive in July tho.

The thing about the 2.0TQ is it makes so much torque early but tend to fizzle out at higher revs. Unlike the GTI or Roc whic makes less torque but it gradually builds up. So GTi and Rocs would be more satisfying to drive hard as it gives u that rush and sense of speed. However the A5 with a nice APR S3K04 kit should solve this lack of top end rush.
 
Schwepps,with the Scooby I know what I'm getting,its a well known fact that it rides very firmly.I wasn't expecting the e90's ride to be this unsorted.Anyways,a set of KWs should be on the car this year,that should solve the problem.

E46F,MLC indeed... I'm getting a K1200S soon hehe;)
 
Jonn:

nice write up bro.. basically sums up the dilemma of our options in Msia.... I'd hold back on GTI Mk6 for now as Mk7 is launching next year.... also, the new F30 3 series looks quite promising based on bits & pieces of leak/spied information here & there...

the revealed new square light spy shot on the new F30 3 test mule is very enticing already to keep me from placing my booking on either the C250 CGI or the Golf GTI.....

if the new F30 3 will be using the same engine as the one in new X1 Turbo 2.0L, then VW/Audi will have alot of catch up to do... I just hope the 3.0L Twin Turbo on the current F10 5 gets flow down into the 3 at a reasonable price range... then that's gonna be a fun car to play with or without MLC...
 
Morganl;620387 said:
Jonn:

nice write up bro.. basically sums up the dilemma of our options in Msia.... I'd hold back on GTI Mk6 for now as Mk7 is launching next year.... also, the new F30 3 series looks quite promising based on bits & pieces of leak/spied information here & there...

the revealed new square light spy shot on the new F30 3 test mule is very enticing already to keep me from placing my booking on either the C250 CGI or the Golf GTI.....

if the new F30 3 will be using the same engine as the one in new X1 Turbo 2.0L, then VW/Audi will have alot of catch up to do... I just hope the 3.0L Twin Turbo on the current F10 5 gets flow down into the 3 at a reasonable price range... then that's gonna be a fun car to play with or without MLC...

The new 4 pot BMW 2.0L turbo is very promising. Only down side is BMW still mates it to the auto tranny, although BMW's ZF 8 speeder auto tranny is pretty good, it's still not as responsive and quick as a twin clutch tranny which the VAG folks are using. However, the auto tranny is smoother as a daily driver tranny. BMW seems to have taken this compromise for their cars, emphasizing on Joy of driving while Audi more on Exhilaration lately. DIfferent strokes for different folks I guess.

Check out this video.. very naughty :).
 
E46Fanatic;620498 said:
The new 4 pot BMW 2.0L turbo is very promising. Only down side is BMW still mates it to the auto tranny, although BMW's ZF 8 speeder auto tranny is pretty good, it's still not as responsive and quick as a twin clutch tranny which the VAG folks are using. However, the auto tranny is smoother as a daily driver tranny. BMW seems to have taken this compromise for their cars, emphasizing on Joy of driving while Audi more on Exhilaration lately. DIfferent strokes for different folks I guess.

Check out this video.. very naughty :).

Very naughty, indeed. hehehe...
 
Top Bottom