323 and C200 CGI - My experience

[bimmerdude]

diesel

bad for the environment? are you thinking about the black smoked 'lori hantu'?

This is modern diesel engine technology, unlike the old diesel it is clean burning and delivers more miles/km for less fuel. The Europeans are using it because it is good for the environment. in the UK more than 90% of new BMWs are diesels.

the clean burning u are talking about depends on the fuel. Bolehland diesel is category Euro 2 compared to existing Euro 5 or 6 in europe. Thailand and singapore is Euro 3 or 4 at least. We are waaaaayyyy behind. The sulphur content is much higher in Euro 2 diesel. Modern diesel engines are designed to burn new category Euro 5 diesel as fas as i know.

why are we behind?? Go Figure.

 

[bimmerdude]

You know of anybody who has had this problem?

non personally. but as i said, it takes effect over a number of years. To be 100% sure, best is to ask BMW Malaysia's official response. Make sure they dont say "Its Normal." They may have produced modified diesel engines for the Malaysian market. who knows?

 

[Gerald 5]

for your reading pleasure
http://www.autoworld.com.my/v2/news/nb_details.asp?awReviewID=2754&awCatID=RT.ATC.CAR.BTW
http://www.autoworld.com.my/v2/news/nb_details.asp?awReviewID=2813&awCatID=RT.ATC.CAR.BTW
http://www.autoworld.com.my/v2/news/nb_details.asp?awReviewId=2964&awCatId=RT.ATC.CAR.BTW

 

[Maniac]

the clean burning u are talking about depends on the fuel. Bolehland diesel is category Euro 2 compared to existing Euro 5 or 6 in europe. Thailand and singapore is Euro 3 or 4 at least. We are waaaaayyyy behind. The sulphur content is much higher in Euro 2 diesel. Modern diesel engines are designed to burn new category Euro 5 diesel as fas as i know.

Euro 2M is our current M'sian diesel grade, which allows up to 500ppm of sulphur content. This is reduced from the previous grade which had up to 3000ppms of sulphur content, which is why our buses, lorries & trucks had so much black smoke spewing before - sulphur being a major contributor to soot production. Sulphur also generates sulphur dioxide/trioxide which can turn into sulphuric acid.

Euro 3 specs reduce sulphur down to 350ppm, Euro 4 down to 50ppm and current regulation in europe with Euro 5 brings it down to less than 10ppm sulphur content in the Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD).

The new cleaner burning common rail N47D20 diesel engines in our 320d and 520d's are able to accept Euro2M quality, but with compromises made in the exhaust system where the particulate filter is taken out and the tailpipe being oriented downwards, to channel emmissions out of harm's way. The engine will still put soot out the back, as a direct result of higher sulphur content, and "cleaner burning" can only happen when fuel quality improves. Don't believe we run the risk of burning our pistons with sulphuric acid given the current ppm.
The real risk is if the 5% biodiesel blend is enforced, with no other diesel alternatives at the pump, where sludge/coking may become a concern.
So far, no major problems reported with the N47, though it's only been in country for 2years so far. Personal experience thus far with my 320d on Euro 2M - no black smoke out the exhaust, and no choke inducing "aroma" when idling in my porch. No discoloration at my bumpers around the exhaust too, and my car's white.

There's talk we'll go to Euro 4 soon which will be cleaner burning for the diesel engines, but nothing's confirmed so all we oilburners can do is to hope for now.

 

[Maniac]

video courtesy of zhul in our 320d thread!

[video=youtube;OTzk3ibvQeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzk3ibvQeo[/video]

 

[gameover]

Euro 2M is our current M'sian diesel grade, which allows up to 500ppm of sulphur content. This is reduced from the previous grade which had up to 3000ppms of sulphur content, which is why our buses, lorries & trucks had so much black smoke spewing before - sulphur being a major contributor to soot production. Sulphur also generates sulphur dioxide/trioxide which can turn into sulphuric acid.

If you read Paultan's article from 2007

http://paultan.org/2007/02/25/analy...ut-of-6-already-euro-ii-compliant-for-petrol/

it shows that even back in 2004 when the original analysis was done, several diesel fuels were already close to Euro 2/3 standard already. Let's hope we've progressed a bit in 6-7 years even if the mandate for Euro 4 fuel isn't in place yet.

 

[bimmerdude]

so we have the definitive answer.
the 320D is not at its optimum performance level due to our Euro 2 category diesel.
Thanks guys...

 

[Maniac]

so we have the definitive answer.
the 320D is not at its optimum performance level due to our Euro 2 category diesel.
Thanks guys...

not entirely true bro. that's like saying that our petrol siblings are not at optimum performance because they're not running RON 98+.
performance is unaffected with Euro 2M, though the "green" feature of the BMW's technology is not maximised.

 

[bimmerdude]

not entirely true bro. that's like saying that our petrol siblings are not at optimum performance because they're not running RON 98+.
performance is unaffected with Euro 2M, though the "green" feature of the BMW's technology is not maximised.

By logic i think that if an engine is designed with Euro 4 in mind, then it would logically perform better with Euro 4 than Euro 2? Optimum performance in this case means total performance including its green technology?

 

[docrayboy]

By logic i think that if an engine is designed with Euro 4 in mind, then it would logically perform better with Euro 4 than Euro 2? Optimum performance in this case means total performance including its green technology?

I think what Maniac bro is saying is that in terms of engine hp and torque output, the 320d doesn't improve much more with Euro 4 or 5 diesel. It's just the emissions get cleaner with those cleaner fuels.

 

[gameover]

By logic i think that if an engine is designed with Euro 4 in mind, then it would logically perform better with Euro 4 than Euro 2? Optimum performance in this case means total performance including its green technology?

What I understood was these engines were designed with Euro 3 in mind. Euro 4 doesn't give it any advantage, Euro 2 is slightly detuned but only enough to see on the dyno.

I've used Euro 4 fuel from Singapore several times. I can't feel any difference in performance or consumption.

 

[bimmerdude]

i guess the 64000 dollar question is: would the increased sulphur content in Euro 2 affect the cylinder walls over time? and i mean in say over 5 years?

 

[docrayboy]

i guess the 64000 dollar question is: would the increased sulphur content in Euro 2 affect the cylinder walls over time? and i mean in say over 5 years?

Its best to be cautious and continue enjoying your 320i, bro-since you are the cautious type-like most of Malaysia's diesel-fearing citizens....After 50 years when you are sure of no problems with diesel, you can consider going for a test drive and maybe talking to mum about buying one....

 

[Maniac]

If you read Paultan's article from 2007

http://paultan.org/2007/02/25/analy...ut-of-6-already-euro-ii-compliant-for-petrol/

it shows that even back in 2004 when the original analysis was done, several diesel fuels were already close to Euro 2/3 standard already. Let's hope we've progressed a bit in 6-7 years even if the mandate for Euro 4 fuel isn't in place yet.

Good article, thanks for the link gameover. I wonder if a similar report has been generated recently, would be interested to see if anything has changed.
Saw the Ford Focus diesel sport model in the papers today, a 2.0l putting out 134ps, and 320Nm. What about diesel hybrids a la the Peuguot 3008 HYbrid4? Rocket torque and fuel economy - this is going to be the way of the future, gents.

 

[docrayboy]

i guess the 64000 dollar question is: would the increased sulphur content in Euro 2 affect the cylinder walls over time? and i mean in say over 5 years?

bring your best magnifying glass and we'll let you have a check of our cylinder walls, scadydude....

 

[docrayboy]

Maybe I was too harsh on bimmerdude - I mean everybody's gfot a right to voice their insecurities and uncertainties-I mean, life is complex, cars are complex, not too mention bloody- overtaxed and expensive here in Malaysia!.....the cylinders don't really cost 64000 dollars (Ringgit or US) to change, do they, bimmerdude? You are making me kan-cheong now too, dude...chill...come up to Awana with us...let's race the 320d vs your 320i to the top!! After 5 years when my cylinderwalls are screwed up...your 320i will probably win the race then...ha ha!!

 

[schwarz]

it's all up to preferences la.. no doubt diesel is good choice (for me at least) and petrol is good too as long it's a bimmer then it is very good already.

 

[bimmerdude]

Maybe I was too harsh on bimmerdude-I mean everybody's gfot a right to voice their insecurities and uncertainties-I mean, life is complex, cars are complex, not too mention bloody- overtaxed and expensive here in Malaysi!.....the cylinders don't really cost 64000 dollars(Ringgit or US) to change, do they, bimmerdude? You are making me kan-cheong now too, dude...chill...come up to Awana with us...race your 320i to the top!! After 5 years when my cylinderwalls are screwed up...your 320i will probably win the race then...ha ha!!

I'm sure u have a powerful car bro. you are also very rich! but all this childish talk is not answering a genuine question i have bro...macam? Does ur mum knows u go racing up Awana???!!

 

[docrayboy]

I'm sure u have a powerful car bro. you are also very rich! but all this childish talk is not answering a genuine question i have bro...macam? Does ur mum knows u go racing up Awana???!!

I am going up for a teh tarik and roti canai.....promise I'll be back before 11a.m. Can or not, bimmerdude mummy? Can you be my mummy? Can you tuck me into bed and suck my....?

 

[docrayboy]

it's all up to preferences la.. no doubt diesel is good choice (for me at least) and petrol is good too as long it's a bimmer then it is very good already.

That's right....they SHOULDN'T put the diesel cars down...bloody jealousy! What else do you want ...already Car of the Year 2011....and 2010 also!