323 and C200 CGI - My experience

[viewfinder]

Airplanes without wings, not yet. But fan without blades and without any rotating parts has been invented and available for sale.

No point arguing about what we don't like and stopping others who may want it It really doesn't rob anything from us who wants sporty rides, M-sport or ///M rides also, because it's a separate comfort line (which still has ~50/50 weight distribution). I am thinking from BMW perspective, it's their profit to take. If they just wanna leave it, their market share and profit margin will tell...

Zhul, Audi can come up with the middle ground but it's a 4-ring logo instead of the Bavarian blue/white logo that some people want. Or vice versa.

Sorry for side tracking... would love to hear from germ on this final choice. I hope it's a BMW.

 

[astroboy]

.... would love to hear from germ on this final choice. I hope it's a BMW.

He has to rather fikir masak2 on what he wants.. a fish or a cat.. we all know they are very different pets..

 

[gameover]

Astroboy, but won't it be nice if BMW can win some converts or fence-sitters over to the BMW brand, if they simply do the thing that this group of border-line buyers are looking for: BMW Comfort line 3 series (or maybe 1/3/5). Disclaimer, not for me.

I read somewhere that BMW needs to be able to sell more cars (increase total volume) in order to offset their slightly lower margin (vs MBenz). This maybe a quick & easy avenue. Slightly less stiff shocks, a bit more cushy seats. After all, they apparently do use different absorbers for different country. For a different reason though, poor road condition. I was told Malaysia E90's gets the "poor road condition" category shocks.

Not sure where you're getting the news when BMW is #1 followed by Audi and MB.

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/bmw-p...worlds-largest-selling-luxury-brand-after-q1/

 

[viewfinder]

Not sure where you're getting the news when BMW is #1 followed by Audi and MB.

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/bmw-p...worlds-largest-selling-luxury-brand-after-q1/

While the # of cars is #1, is the total profit also #1? i.e. is the average selling price of 265,809 units (in the first quarter of 2010 according to the website above) higher than that of MBenz's 248,500 units? I don't know. I read from somewhere that MBenz enjoys higher profit margin. Maybe can find this information in the BMW / MBenz corporate financial statement.

 

[Schwepps]

You're correct Viewfinder, I've read the same thing too: that Mercedes enjoys a higher margin than all other lux marques. It's profit that counts for corporates, and if you can't beat the competition's unit margin, target volume instead. Look at how Huawei has pushed out all the established players in our telecommunications infrastructure market in a very short span of time with equivalent products at almost 1/2 the price.

Going totally OT, the DRB-VW tie-up must surely give a headache to the 'established' national marques in the near future. The German media are pretty excited about the regional potential. Interesting times ahead on that front. :wink:

 

[germ]

if i were you. i'll wait for the new 3 series or get the merc.... the current 3 series has been around for many years... and once the new 3 series comes out, your car would look outdated though the year of registration for the 3 series says otherwise.

yeap... that would be my recommendation too......

Thanks Iylia H and Morganl.

Personally, looks factor, though important, is not the key deciding factor for me. IMO, both cars look good in their own way. And since we are on this point, I am not sure how the f30 will look like (although lots of renderings and heavily camouflaged pics/videos around), but I can only guess that it will have design cues from the f10. So personally i feel the e90 LCI may not look outdated so fast, especially with the redesigned tail lamps...which have a hint of the f10 lamps. I believe the LCIs came out sometime in 2008, and somehow to me, they do look more current than the 2010 C Class...I think the LCI lamps and the 2 character lines on the bonnet makes the 3 a real looker.:wink:

But from a non-aesthetic point of view, I do understand where you guys are coming from...it will be outdated, period...and what implications a new model will have on residual values...valid points from an economic point of view..

 

[germ]

If you're going for the merc, go for the C250 instead. Better spec and power/torque.
And the C has much better consumption!
If getting the 3 get the full monty M-sport. That's the real deal of driving UDM

Not so sure the C200 should have been up against the 323. My take on head to head comparisons:

From a $$ front:
C200 vs 320d M sport
C250 vs 323

drivetrain & specs:
C250 vs 320d

comfort/features:
C250 vs 323

At the end of the day, you have to decide which of these will "drive" your decision...!

Hi Mun and Maniac

my comparisons were based on firstly, the budget I have set for myself - since I am looking at pre-reg / owned kinda price ranges and not rrp. So based on this, both the 325 and c250 were dropped from the list of choices.

secondly, the engine performance specs of the 323 and C200 were adequate enough for me. I felt that the 325 and C250 were more comparable instead, in this dept.

A lot of variables to compare, but I narrowed it down to 2 cars...and yes, I will definitely decide on the key decision "drivers" soon enough :63:

As to the point of getting the full monty / real deal thingy, in the event I get the 3, it will at least be an inline 6...so am in a way...halfway there....no? :wink: :burnout:


PS : Yes, fuel consumption (combined) is slightly better : 7.2-7.9 l / 100km vs 9.1 l/100km.

 

[germ]

Test drove 325i, 323i, C250, C200 CGI; undecided for 1 week. Then tested the 320D, book the car the next day even. After 6 months of ownership, still get 'surprises' everyday! 2 weeks ago tested my friend's C200 CGI, felt steering too light and too soft for me. Just my 2 cents

Hi , the steering was 1 thing i totally forgot to mention in my initial post. guess it was a bit late at night..zzz...I noted in the merc brochure that it does come with "speed-sensitive power steering", but overall, i agree that it did feel a bit on the light side... glad to hear you still get surprises everyday in your ride..

I've driven and been driven in the Mercedes C-Class, E-Class and S-Class. While the steering is light, I wouldn't consider the suspension to be particularly comfortable especially for older people. It's firm enough that you do feel the road. I'm now driving the 320d and while people complain the M-sport suspension is uncomfy, I didn't think it was different from the Peugeot 206 I was driving before. Maybe my butt is confused

I personally went through the same experience germ did with my BIL's C200k (W204) and my own 320d and I understand exactly his comments. Made my choice and I've been happy with it.

I am sure most of us would have gone through the necessary pros vs cons before making our decisions. looks like you made the right decision ...good to hear. basically the set up of each car is catered to different category of driving styles...its more a case of firm vs firmer. Wouldn't say your butt is confused though, it probably just got used to the ride :wink:

Actually, the Comfort version of the E90 is the 323.

well, its stock. and since it aint an M-sport setup, guess in a way its....... more comfort oriented

 

[haywire]

While the # of cars is #1, is the total profit also #1? i.e. is the average selling price of 265,809 units (in the first quarter of 2010 according to the website above) higher than that of MBenz's 248,500 units? I don't know. I read from somewhere that MBenz enjoys higher profit margin. Maybe can find this information in the BMW / MBenz corporate financial statement.

Errr...ahem...BMW worths more than Merc as stated in the news a while ago.

See here:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/110042925921/bmw-overtakes-toyota-as-most-valuable-car-brand

 

[germ]

Airplanes without wings, not yet. But fan without blades and without any rotating parts has been invented and available for sale.

No point arguing about what we don't like and stopping others who may want it It really doesn't rob anything from us who wants sporty rides, M-sport or ///M rides also, because it's a separate comfort line (which still has ~50/50 weight distribution). I am thinking from BMW perspective, it's their profit to take. If they just wanna leave it, their market share and profit margin will tell...

Zhul, Audi can come up with the middle ground but it's a 4-ring logo instead of the Bavarian blue/white logo that some people want. Or vice versa.

Sorry for side tracking... would love to hear from germ on this final choice. I hope it's a BMW.

hi viewfinder, good point that you brought up...again, its always one of the toughest decisions for any corporate to make...max profits, at the expense of what principals the company was built upon? having built its foundation on the "ultimate driving machine" and "sheer driving pleasure" taglines we all know where BMWs orientation lies. However, with the recent introduction of "Joy is the driving force" (its on the front page of the 3 series brochure i received), one can only wonder where the company is headed..hmmm....But anyway, in the next page it reads : "The 3 series sedan has enthused generations of drivers with its superior agility, excellent comfort and irresistible free-revving engines."...so nuff said.

I am sure both marques will always find niche segments to tap...be it the 1 series, X1, A class or B class...there will always be something suitable for someone.

He has to rather fikir masak2 on what he wants.. a fish or a cat.. we all know they are very different pets..

As viewfinder mentioned "No point arguing about what we don't like and stopping others who may want it " , its always nice to have a civilised discussion and see different aspects or views. and anyway, once something becomes a "want" for me, theres not much stopping me from getting it...:wink:

Well, as to the final decision, still undecided...not normally a fence sitter, but a substantial decision like this, I would rather not make in haste. like what astroboy mentioned, must fikir masak masak, what pet i want .

 

[supergripen]

Sorry,sidetracking here a lil'bit.

The C-class will be getting a facelift next year..looks pretty good.Check out Paultan's blog.

Back to topic,I think u can't go wrong with the 320d.Superb overall choice.

 

[r37720]

that is why i still keep my 530d even though some people thinks it becomes an old junk....

 

[rpmnut]

Between a six cylinder BMW and a four cylinder Merc, I'd take the former any day! While the C-class may be bigger, more spacious etc....for me, driving pleasure ranks higher than looks or space - and for that there's really only one choice

BTW - Mercedes just facelifted the C-Class. Check out http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/254693/

Looks even more aggressive now, the C, but it still soldiers on with the 4 cylinder engine!

 

[germ]

Thanks for the heads up on the merc facelift.

Found some pretty nice side by side pics between the e90 lci and facelifted c from http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468756

restyled headlamps for more aggressive look + LED DRLs, but rear remains virtually unchanged, except LED tail lamps. Cockpit changed quite a bit ie redesigned dashboad + has built in display screen like the e90 but screen looks smaller and not segregated from driver instrument panels. most likely showing the avantgarde trim here.

Scheduled for debut in the Detroit Auto Show in Jan 2011, no idea yet on launch date in Malaysia and whether there will be new variants....... 4Q2011? :wink:

Attached some pics here for quick ref....(couldn't attach more than 3 pics but more pics in link)

 

[M5POWER]

It is definitely an Avantgarde trim there. Don't you think there's just too much LED strips going on in the Mercedes? There's already 2 on the bumper as a foglight and there's another for each of the headlights as a daytime running lights... I like the shape of the new headlights that they put on the car. Looks much better than the boring predecessor. They've also done a major improvement on the interior obviously. I'm not being biased but afterall, the much more simple and not busy looking 3 Series just hooked me in.

 

[Schwepps]

Audi, and now Mercedes, like to decorate their headlight areas with strings of christmas lights. Totally spoils the masculine Avantgarde look. I hope BMW never adopt this bling-bling. I can just picture the rest of world copying this next year and giving the driver the ability to select 'blinking', 'chasing' or 'oscillating' LED strings. :24:

 

[M5POWER]

I hope BMW never adopt this bling-bling.

Those bling-bling actually does exist only on the Active Hybrid fleet... And from my latest observation on the F13 6-Series Convertible, they actually does exist only as a fog light but not a looooooooooong strip of death in the headlights. :24:

I pretty much understand why BMW wants to use the LED because it's brighter and consume less power. But they're not using it as a killing cosmetic purpose like Audi or Mercedes.

 

[astroboy]

.. using it as a killing cosmetic purpose like Audi or Mercedes...

I also find them extremely annoying, no difference than those jokers who convert to HID without using a projector lens.

 

[haywire]

Im hating those guys who put extremely powerful LEDs on top of their rear number plate, extremely annoying, causing glare and distraction. Beats the purpose of having a plate light as you cant see the number plate because of the glare.

 

[astroboy]

...LEDs on top of their rear number plate, extremely annoying, causing glare and distraction...

That's precisely their idea to prevent their license plate from being caught by the red light camera. At least they know what they are doing..