whats the best engine oil

[1996E36328i]

Originally posted by Autochild@Dec 6 2005, 07:39 PM
Seems a bit silly to worry so much about the cost of an oil when it is the lifeblood of your engine.. it should really be about quality.. understandably this is not eeasy to determine.. but price is a good clue... anyhow.. not all oils are equal regardless if they are Mineral, Semi or fully synth and a crappy cheap oil may not provide the protection you hoped for.. even with 5K change intervals..  a good Mineral oil can be better than a half baked fully synth.. it depends on the overal chemistry and that depends on the quality and quantity of the additives used.. I think using Nasa or HiRev or other local brands in your BMW is a bad idea.. in our shop we....

Peace,
Autochild

IMO to some of us, the cost of the oil is a big consideration.

That's one reason some of us buy 2nd hand BMWs instead of new ones due to the huge affordibility factor :getyourfactsright: I for one want to feel and own a BMW(not brand new that is) and yet still want to save as much money as possible k:

 

[fabianyee]

use mineral oil if u don't whack the car often. If u do whack the car as often as the opportunity present u, then fully syn oil would be a better bet. There is a difference in engine smoothness at rev above 4000rpm.

 

[Autochild]

Sure, I am no fan of buying new cars either.. because of the value quotient.. the depreciation from new is just too much too fast so better (IMHO) to pick a car up that is at least 2 years old.. but when we talk about saving money on oil and the role of oil to the vehicle then it is really not the same kinda consideration. In one case your talking 10's of thousands of RM's with low risk in the other case your talking bout 10's of RM's and relatively High Risk.. so just why risk it? out of all the places and ways to save money, sorry I find it a bit obtuse to skimp on oil quality in such a precision engineered vehicle and in a vehicle where a serious engine repair will cost you no less than RM20K and as much as 40K.

I can understand if you feel all engine oils are about the same and if it says Semi or Synthetic or something then it must be good.. but in reality there are just so many ways to make oil and so many different chemistries that could be applied .. shopping by price or free gifts and shopping in the no-name isles is just not the way to approach it.. I would approach it from a company and product reputation standpoint.. and I am not talking about which billboards you see on your way to work or which oil companies sponsor the most workshops.. look at the companies producing the oils.. read the BITOG website for results from oil analysis tests .. read testimonials from people that seriously whack their race engines.. etc..

Anyway as I said.. it is just a bad idea to use Hi-Rev or Nasa or bottom shelf petrol station mineral oil in your Beemer.. of course that’s just my opinion.. but it's your car.


Peace,
Autochild

 

[ICEMAN 68]

hey there autochild ...

i'm using NASA GD11 ... an oil that cost me RM 55 bucks only .... but then what the hell i'm being changing my engine oil every 45 days ....

also i've been using this particular grade for the past 1 1/2 yrs already.. and for your info it's not that easy to get a bottle of GD 11 from any shop out there ...

so what particular brand do think is the best ... care to elaborate more...

just curious why NASA and Hi-rev ?? any specific reasons ??

note : i'm not that particular of the brands out there ..but im one of them who is particular in changing it every 45 days ..

 

[Crymson]

Urrghhh, making me confuse. I need a sound advice on protecting my 8 year old engine. Should I maintain using semi synthetic or should i use mineral. Prefer to change every 5000 km or 8000 km and I do have the occasional sprintssssss.

:dunno:

Anyone have any comments on Castrol Magnatec?

 

[Autochild]

Some points in no specific order.. hope they answer some questions...

The results from poor engine oil can usually not be noticed right away.. this comes later when you say "hmm what’s that noise?" and the mechanic says.. "hmm that noise is not good!" .. or you simply start to slowly notice your car runs heavier and heavier as FC rises and rises..

Changing oil every 45 or 5000Km is not economical considering the time spent to bring it for service, the cost of the service and the cost of the filter. You could change every 12-15K and use the extra savings to buy better quality oil… it may still cost you a bit more but it’s worth it.

Open up your Oil cap .. what color are the parts you see inside (only some models .. others have a windage tray covering) ? Black, Orange or Silver? .. anyhow they should be silver colored...

Poor quality oil will carbonize especially under the pistons where it is hottest this will block oil from reaching the wrist pins which will cause poor rotating assembly balance and failure of the piston rings. As well it can oxidize in the "oilers" these are small tubes that spray oil to the underside of the pistons.. if these get blocked it is just a matter of time before you lose the game.

Good base oil has good molecular structure, good molecular structure comes from exceptional processing such as severe hydrocracking and gives an oil better thermal stability. Good oil also has better quality additives these protect against corrosion.. but don't think these means simply "rust".. this corrosion protection is more in terms of Ph level and the effect of Ph, meaning Acid which is formed by reaction of blow-by gasses with water (humidity) .. this acid eats Zinc, Aluminum as well as Iron.. there is also "fretting corrosion" that occurs under pressure. this is what you would see as "stains" on bearing sleeves etc.. also consider an oils shear strenght..which has surprisingly little to do with it's actual viscosity (such as between a 10W30 and a 20W50).. it oxidation resistance it's detergent ability and it's ability to suspend particles.. all this comes into play before considering the quality and quantities of anti-friction agents, the quality of it's VII's/Polymers used to make it multi-grade ..and these Poylers are usually the first parts of the oil to get broken (molecularly)..

You can not tell a good oil just by it's 'sound".. you can simple add vegetable oil and head and shoulders shampoo (for a large dose of Zinc/ZZDP) and have a quite engine.. for a short time

As I said you should look into some more informed and unbiased websites such as BITOG (Bob is the oil guy).. and others sources to educate yourself a bit on how not all oils are equal.. also there is some good information available on Autoworld.com in the petrol, Oil and Additives forum.

Some oil contain additives alone that would cost the manufacturer RM40 for a dose for 4L .. this certainly is not in the oil you are buying for RM55/4L.



Peace,
Autochild

 

[ICEMAN 68]

thanks for the info ....

i use to be a regular user of a so called better quality oil and use to follow the regular service interval of 8 K ... eventually everything started to fall apart .. ETC ..lifters were producing loud sound blah blah blah ....

so for an over aged engine i've opt to a frequent 45day interval with out fail and looks like it paying off well ... no failure or what so ever.

also looking into lotsa fake branded oil out there .. not many that can withstand the viscoty rate at this tropical climate country ....

anyway are you working in an oil company or are you just refering to write ups .....

join us someday .. maybe you can check my oil condition...

 

[ALBundy]

Originally posted by Crymson@Dec 7 2005, 04:27 PM
Urrghhh, making me confuse. I need a sound advice on protecting my 8 year old engine. Should I maintain using semi synthetic or should i use mineral. Prefer to change every 5000 km or 8000 km and I do have the occasional sprintssssss.

:dunno:

Anyone have any comments on Castrol Magnatec?

Crymson, Magnatec is good stuff as well. The only thing about Castrol engine oil is to beware of imitations...get it from someone you know well or at least a reputable supplier.

As for debate of FC and hp and etc....I think its BS. I have used Castrol RS as well....no difference in terms of fuel consumption and engine performance. IN fact..I would say the hydraulic lifter sounded a tad noisier with the RS. It has been two years since I have used mineral oil and the last time I opened up the engine valve cover to install some hot cams...the cylinder head looked clean with no slugde. That again, is my own opinion and certainly there is no harm in using synthetic oil, if you wish to splurge out a couple hundred bucks more.

The other thing to note is, BMW recommends lower viscosity oil for vanos engines, minimum 15W-40. For non vanos engines, its okie to use 20W-50. If I have a M engine, I would use 10W-50 (full synthetic) since the vanos system is continuous and the operating pressure is extremely high.

Bottom line, you don't need to use a big chopper to slaughter a chicken

 

[musclehedz]

Originally posted by ICEMAN 13@Dec 8 2005, 09:58 AM
thanks for the info ....

i use to be a regular user of a so called better quality oil and use to follow the regular service interval of 8 K ... eventually everything started to fall apart .. ETC ..lifters were producing loud sound blah blah blah ....

so for an over aged engine i've opt to a frequent 45day interval with out fail and looks like it paying off well ... no failure or what so ever.

also looking into lotsa fake branded oil out there .. not many that can withstand the viscoty rate at this tropical climate country ....

anyway are you working in an oil company or are you just refering to write ups .....

join us someday .. maybe you can check my oil condition...

Iceman dude,

Autochild is no 20 year old talk-and-bull person trying to sell something. Behind the keyboard is an experience PhD certified engineer from Canada who has a history with cars in terms of education and practicals that probably 90% of the local mech has never done. He knows what he is doing and what he is talking about. He doesn't read writeup, in facts, he WRITES writeups and books

And as 1996E36328i says, they DON'T DO MAJOR REPAIRS, their business is to maintain cars such as our beloved hi-tech piece of german machine getting into major repairs.

Run down to their workshop, you'll be impressed. I can vouch for those of us from here who has been there and will be their usual clients

Anyway, you're the only fella that does an oil change every 45 days that I know off :nyehehe:

 

[Autochild]

It was mentioned someone used "so-called better quality oil" and then had problems.. this I think relates to the "So-Called better" variable, a point I have been trying to make.. it really is not easy to figure out which oil is better and then throw in the condition that one oil may be better suited for a certain application and another for another application... lets take the famous Q8 F1 10W50.. many people swear by it because it sounds smooth.. and this is correct and I believe it to be a good oil.. I have drained it after 15K Kms and it was still ticking.. but put this in a Highly tuned high revving Turbo 4 Clyinder engine and watch the main journal bearings melt away.. a)because it is the wrong viscosity b)because it is the wrong viscosity .. so in this case the quality of the oil didn't matter when it is used in the wrong application.. it's correct application is daily driver low and mid range RPM driven engines that call for a XW50 where a long drain interval is desired (such as your BMW 6 Cylinders and Older 4 Clyinder engines).. for a car (even a BMW) that is tuned, perhaps force inducted, High rev driven (manual cars on Track day) .. your going to need a lighter, better oil.. such as a 10/15W40 from [brands deleted]. Why these brands? because they are the ones that design their oil's for these applications, Q8 designs good oils for normal manufacturer stipulated applications. Price wise when comparing the best Q8 oil F1 and Royal Purple.. there is a whole RM10 difference in price for 4L .. but compared to the price of a bottom end rebuild one costs a whole lot more than the other.. Nasa and High Rev or Stallion and many big brand names (on their lower tier products) for example do not even design their oil's to meet most manufacturers stipulated specifications.. they design these exclusively on price. Others design their oil above all manufactures minimum requirements. Buyer Beware.


Peace,
Autochild

 

[ICEMAN 68]

hey there musclehead... thanks for the intro of autochild ...have never meet him before ...yes i'm the 45day freak .. and maybe i'm the first...

Autochild ... info that make sense.learned a lot .. great stuff ... do you specialize for the items mentioned ?? where is your workshop located at ?? would love to pay a visit there ...

 

[musclehedz]

Originally posted by ICEMAN 13@Dec 8 2005, 11:43 AM
hey there musclehead... thanks for the intro of autochild ...have never meet him before ...yes i'm the 45day freak .. and maybe i'm the first...

Autochild ... info that make sense.learned a lot .. great stuff ... do you specialize for the items mentioned ?? where is your workshop located at ?? would love to pay a visit there ... 

No problem dude

[No posting of commercial numbers, addresses.]

They do 'maintanence services', they don't do major repairs.

All their services are Machine/Computer Based.

They have machines for:

- Engine Flush Machine.
- Transmission Flush Machine(it's a Yamada and for those who know this, this is one of the world's best).
- Brake Flush Machine.
- Power Steering Flush Machine.
- Refrigarent Analysis Computer.
- A/C Vacuum/Refill Machine(it's an Ecotek, similiar to the one AB and Cartrade has recently).
- Nitrogen Gas Machine.
- Coolant Flush Machine.
- Noise Detection Machine.
- LAUNCH Scanner.
- De-carb High Pressure Injector Cleaner.
- LAUNCH Bench Injector Tester/Cleaner with and Ultrasonic Bath Cleaner.
- High Powered Ozone Generator Machine.
- Bently Technical Manuals/Repair Manuals, specification, etc..they don't simply blindly do the work or chuck stuff on the car.

They carry good quality products such as Q8, Adnoc, Red Line, Royal Purple, Pipercross and not forgetting Lubegard. They are not sponsored by any oil companies at all so there is no biasing. They reasearch the products long before hand deciding to bring them to the customers.

I will especially recommend those of you who are having gearbox problem go pay them a visit before you start parting with rm5k for an re-build. You will be surprised what the Yamada + Lubegard can do to save your gearbox(if it can be saved). He is a nice guy, talk to him. By the way, his name is Brendan(he's a Canadian) and his partner is Anand(he's the enginneering wiz who can tell u to mod your car up to no limits and who does engineering maths like nobody's business). Both of them are not el-cheapo mech but real experience engineers who has done more than cars.

And also the workshop is DEAD CLEAN, white floors, no oil residues anywhere, tools are in a neat order and they wear proper mech overalls

They also have a very nice a/c with a large screen tv and astro waiting room where u can oversee your car being worked on.

Charges wise on their service, it's very reasonable. After service guaranteed to put a smile on the face.

An oh yeah, they carry Powerdyne Superchargers if anyone is interested and if any of you own an Audi(VAG will know who this 2 fellas are) and looking for software upgrades to bump up the ponies, they are REVO authorised.

 

[wally]

Originally posted by musclehedz@Dec 8 2005, 10:30 AM

Autochild is no 20 year old talk-and-bull person trying to sell something. Behind the keyboard is an experience PhD certified engineer from Canada who has a history with cars in terms of education and practicals that probably 90% of the local mech has never done. He knows what he is doing and what he is talking about. He doesn't read writeup, in facts, he WRITES writeups and books

Autochild: Thanks for explaining. With your PhD and experience, you're the man I'll listen to. You're now the lubricant SIFU. k:

 

[musclehedz]

Originally posted by wally+Dec 8 2005, 01:19 PM-->QUOTE (wally @ Dec 8 2005, 01:19 PM)

 

[adnoc]

IMHO, you can refer to www.eolcs.api.org for confirmation of the oil's API certification and approvals when choosing an oil suitable for your beloved beemers...

there are abundance of imitation oils selling in the market and no one can guarantee the genuinity of the oil. but it is ensured that if the oil is for the mass market, it should come with the API "donut" logo imprinted on the can... "some may ask why some companies dun have that donut logo..."

there is no specific way to determine which engine oil is the best... what would it be based upon?

well, the least one can do is to ensure that the oil is genuinely certified and approved by the API organisation with its donut logo imprinted.....

then comes the SAE grades... multi or mono grade....

then comes the blended base oil whether it is semi, fully synthetic or mineral based....

the best oil is fresh API genuine, certified and approved oil...

cheers

 

[Autochild]

Agreed.. another clue is API and ILSAC approval, but truth be told.. they are more concerned with the enviorment than your engine (longer drain intervals at the expense of your engine (SM) ;-) ..but their standards are high... we carry Adnoc proudly... all API certified .. even our flush oil is API doughnut'ed .. Royal Purple all SAE and API ..only Redline is not certified.. and our Royal Purple Racing Oil (bad for the enviorment, will void you warranty, will harm the enviorment.. but will get you to the finish line first!).. Adnoc is the perfect answer to anyone looking for value for money and fitness for purpose.


Peace,
Autochild

 

[Autochild]

Engine Tech?

Total engine weight: 2300 tons (The crankshaft alone weighs 300 tons.)
Length: 89 feet
Height: 44 feet
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm (7,603,850 Nm)

Cranckase Oil Capaicty: 36000 Liters

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/

We love this stuff sorry off topic.



Peace,
Autochild

 

[adnoc]

I would say that ADNOC products are reasonably priced for the approved API grades and 100% fully imported lubes for those who are looking for quality yet cost effective lubes... (genuine as well)... provided that the users are aware of the API donut thingy....

fyi, the range of lubes range are:

5W/40 fully synthetic API SL
10W/40 semi synthetic API SL
15W/40 mineral API SL
20W/50 mineral API SJ

cheers

 

[adnoc]

Just for your information, the Adnoc lubes that has ACEA ratings are as follow:

Adnoc Fully-Synthetic Image 5W/40 (available in 4 litres)
API SL/CF
ACEA A3/B3/02
MB229.1
VW 502 00, 505 00
BMW- Longlife

Adnoc Semi-Synthetic Pearl 10W/40 (available in 4 litres)
API SL/CF
ACEA A3/B4/02
MB 229.1
VW 505 00

Adnoc Mineral Special 20W/50 (available in 4 litres)
API SL/CF
ACEA A3/B3/02
MB229.1
VW 505 00

Adnoc HPSD Diesel Engine Oil 15W/40 (available in 5, 20, 208 litres)API CG4/CF4/SJ
ACEA A2/B3/02, E2/04
MB 228.1/ 229.1
MAN 271
MACK EO-L/ L PLUS
VOLVO VDS
VW 505 00

Adnoc Global Engine Oil 15W/40 (available only in 208 litres drum)GLobal DHD-1
API CI4/CH4/CG4/SL
ACEA A3/B4/E7/04
MB 228.3/ 229.1
MACK EO-M PLUS
VOLVO VDS 2
CUMMINS 20071/2/6/7/8
MAN M3275
MTU TYPE 2/ DDC TYPE 2
RVI RLD, RD 2
ZF TE-ML07C/04C
CAT ECF1

cheers

 

[kws]

Here's my contribution -

I use Castrol RS 10W60 in my car.

Why?

1) Affordable (RM110 to RM120 therebouts for 4 litre pack)
2) Reputable (Castrol's been around for ages......so they should know what they're doing?!?!?)
3) Stable oil pressure upon startup