E90 BMW 325i vs Audi A4 2.0T Quattro

[anaksarawak]

Best value: 1 year old preowned AUDI B8 (Might save you RM80K)
New: E90

 

[KL2DC]

Best value: 1 year old preowned AUDI B8 (Might save you RM80K)
New: E90

Used vs new is an apples and oranges discussion...If I'm laying out green in that neighborhood, it better be brand spanking new. I want to be there for the all too critical break-in period...

 

[MANAMOHAN]

Quotes and paraphrases from a UK mag?? You insult me dude, really. What, I dug up my 3 year old Autocars and and quoted from them in the middle of the night just for kicks? Get real man. Which part anyway, the crappy boot lining bit? For your info, dear KL2DC, i tested both cars at launch, at least 6 months apart. I recently wanted to buy the 325i badly, so i borrowed one from a friend and kept it for a few days. I then took the A4 for a spin again. I took the C230 for a spin too. I found the 325i to be the best car at the limit with good handling and steering. But thats it. You own a 325i so you probably want to justify your purchase. Me, I'll wait for the new A4. For the rest of you BMW fans, take an A4 2.0TFsi to know what you're missing. Maybe not on the tracks, but certainly on real world roads.

 

[danc]

I have taken both the A4 TFSI and the Quatrro. Ride wise, they still give me a very faint headache each time. I even get the same nauseating feeling when riding in the A6. Just don't know why. Audi needs to somehow sort out their shocks to eliminate the bobbing motion. (maybe it's just me but it's like getting seasickness) If it's built interior built quality that you going for (i.e. boot material, dials on the dash) then it's a no brainer, get the A4. If you want to focus on having a real good drive my bet is still on the E90. Will have to wait and see how is the new A4.

At the end of the day, it is really what you want in a car and to each his/her own I guess. There is no perfect car, full stop (short of maybe a Veyron??) No point "defending" a car, it's competition like this that makes each brand strive to continuously improve and it's the customers that will benefit, right?

 

[E46Fanatic]

The E90 grows on you in both driving enjoyment and looks! The first time I drove the E90 325i was in 2005, and to me it was nice, but wasn't ... special. Now after a couple of months owning the E90 325i, I realize what all the hype and fuss about the E90 is about. What makes a car, or any car worlds best car? Had to be something special, which I did not come across when I initially took it for test drive.

I don't believe its a single element about the car that makes it grow on you, but a combination of things. No disputing handling and dynamics which plays a big part, but also small things, like how the engine induction sound is on the N52 when you floor it at low revs, to the scream of the engine at 7k RPMs. Sharpness of the steering and karty feel directional shifts, while keeping a level of size, comfort and luxury in the cabin and overall feel of the car. Taking it on the limit, the car feels like a smaller car, and performs admirably for a 4 door luxury oriented daily driver saloon. On the exterior, I've grown to finally realize how good this Bangle guy was. He was a visionary when it came to his designs and as mellowed as it could be with the 3 series, I absolutely love the angles he has created from the rear slope and edges of the bumper & rear boot lid, to the side door panels which reflect lighting and show of sparkly bits of mettalic paint.... Even the front bumper design has art inspiring angles, dimensions and contours which purpose is to give angles, shades and sparkly bits of lighting. On the the move, its even more interesting, and the car looks alive and flowing! I remember posting here a few years back on how much I loved the look of the Subaru STI's and someone replied that the design is not well sculptured, and just ad-hoc with wings, and flares everywhere a contrast to Bangle's designs which were more coherent and flowing (or something to that matter)... Didin't quite get it then, but after a few years, the STi design looks dated, retro and adhoc in my opnion while I appreciate the lines and design concepts which Bangle put into his cars....

Anyway, I don't believe that most E90 owners have ever regretted the decision and said "Darn should have bought the Audi!". For me I like the Audi A4, the way it looks, interior quality, build quality etc, but thats about it. It doesn't stir the soul or make my heart beat fast, and is also not a wise buy if you look are resale value. A Golf GTI with DSG gearbox stired my soul and got my heart racing but the A4 was neither here nor there. Not inspiring enough to forget about the bad resale etc to make the plunge. So it was out of the question for me.

 

[YellowMellow]

Something that I've posted in a cute car forum:

I did a back to back test of the 3 cars on last Sun, it started with the Passat, followed by the A4 Quattro and ended with the 325i. my brief comment as follows:

VW PASSAT

Exterior

The car looks bigger than the A4 from outside (was told that it's based on the chassis of the coming A5), the front end is distinctive with the "tear-drop' headlights. The rear lights are of LED but I found the design a bit out of tune with the overall design (same feel as the Honda Civic's rear end).

Interior

I don't like the interior at all, the wood trim does not match with the aluminium trim, and it looks plastic (but was told that it's real

) Driving position is good (electronic seat adjustment for front passengers), leg room is the most generous amongst the 3 cars. The car feels airy, and can sit 5 pax comfortably.

Driving

The Passat shares the same engine with the A4, a 2.0 TFSI lump (also same as in the Golf GTI), with power up to 200hp and max torque come early at the 1,800 rpm band. The car feels urgent the moment the throttle is floored (as expected in a FI car), but it's let down by the auto box which hesitates in changing gear especially at lower gears. Once the car is on the move, it's smooth and quiet, executive in feel. The presumably longer wheel base makes the car more planted at high speed, and the softer suspension makes it less bumpy compared to the other two car. There's an annoying chime which comes on, together with a message in the central LCD screen, when the car exceed 100km/h > the worst feature of the car or any car for that matter!

AUDI A4 Quattro

Exterior

The car looks the most sporty of the trio, with aggressive front and lower stance. The large grille may not be to everyone's taste but it gives it that menacing look that makes lesser cars move aside when seeing it coming from rear. I generally have not bad comment on the look. The car is due to be replaced with a totally new model in 2009.

Interior

The sporty feel extends to the interior, the driver is surrounded by the cockpit (very much like the early BMWs), which has loads of buttons and LCD readouts. The car feel tighter inside after the Passat, and rear seat is tight for 3 passengers. As in any Audi, the material used is top notch. The design is conservative in mainly black, complimented by some aluminium trim.
The 2.0 Q TFSI is equipped with paddle shifts at the rear of steering wheel for swapping cogs.

Driving

The car drives as it looks:SPORTY. The multi-tronic gear box is way better than the Passat's auto. The shifts are smooth and jerk free, no matter how you floor the throttle, the response is quite instance. It also has the best exhaust note among the 3. With stiffer suspension, it's noticeably more bumpy than the Passat, but it's a small trade off for a more sporty drive IMO. The paddle shift works well too, although can't compare with the DSG shift if the Golf GTI.

BMW 325i

Exterior

The E90 325i gives mix feeling on how it looks exteriorly. It's not a car that makes my heart beats faster the moment I lay my eyes on it. I still don't like the rear end, although the front looks quite aggressive HEAD ON.....yes, only head on, once you move around you see a different view (typical of Bangle's design).

Interior

Bland.......that's was the immediate reaction after sitting in the other two cars. The push button start/stop ignition is cumbersome, it's block by the steering and you have to bend your head to insert the key and then push the button. The car feels more airy than the A4, but the interior panels feel plasticky, and this the MOST expensive car of the trio.

Driving

Ah........this is the strong point of BMW, and it doesn't disappoint. The IL6 engine fires to life when the button is pushed, the engine note is so sweet. I grinned immediately when I took the big curve infront of AB Glenmarie, yes, this's what I am familiar with and LOVE it. The 6 speeds steptronic gearbox is seamless, with the IL6 engine (218 bhp) singing when pushed, and rear wheel drive, it's like heaven!

The 325i drives and handles the best among the three, although it's quite bumpy due to the run flat tyres.

CONCLUSION?

The Passat doesn't appeal to me at all, although it's relatively good value at RM228k with it's long list of features. So it's straight fight between the A4 and 325i. The A4 costs RM 265k (Euromobile is offering it at RM245k now, limited unit), the Quattro version is at RM 285k and both come with 4 years warranty, where as the E90 325i is retailed at RM 288k with only 2 years warranty. A4 looks better, feels and drive sporty, cheaper to buy and has double the warranty period (hence cheaper to maintain?), but due to be replaced soon. The 325i has a more understated look, but drives and handles better, and the model will last a few more years but it's more expensive to buy and less well equipped.

Tough choice, so which one will you all choose?

wow.. comprehensive info. thanks

 

[Bimmer910]

Your other 'findings' on the dynamics of the car is also subjective and you certainly have the right to your own opinion.

Its quite funny cause i felt the A4 interior was not to my liking, whereas the engine response and handling was fabulous. You can read as many magazines and hear horror stories, but it doesnt mean a thing unless you feel the car out for yourself. Remember that funny little band called "the yardbirds"? They were chiffed by the press - "theyre going to go down like a lead zappelin" !!Hah, who had the last laugh then Guess the press isnt right about everything.

So as i posted originally, the biggest question when buying a new car should be "what am I looking for" or "what do i want out of my car". And as KL2DC had reiterated, cars like music, are subjective and taste driven.

I personally didnt quite like the look of the e90 when it came out, but these days i find myself looking out the window just to appreciate the lines (JPB's rims have helped with that too, thanks).

>90000kms on my 320i and still counting. Chin Chin !

 

[bmrocket]

Guys,
I'm not so good at expressing driving feel or differentiating between understeer or oversteer or torquesteer or rebound and damping....bt here's my contribution to this thread..

I drove a E60 530i for three years..i've had my E90 325i for 2 years and my mum drives a Audi A4 2.0TFSI which i borrow quite often.. (My bro in-law jst got his A4 Quattro but i havnt been able to get my hands on it yet).

All i've got to say is this..
The E90 is the only one of the 3 that i still feel a rush when i get into it and always feel like i can drive it as hard as i like..which i do very often!

As e46f said..i feel nothing can beat the symphony of that in-line 6pot @ 7k rpm..even my wife say's she likes the sound

My money's on the E90 all the way...........................

 

[bmwjunkie]

Does anyone have any idea what the new A4 will look like? Any spy pics?

Dun want to get one now and regret in a year's time when the new one comes out....

I'm also at the cross roads between the E90 325 and the A4 Quattro....

 

[MANAMOHAN]

Haven't seen any pics of the new A4. But its supposed to be based on the new A5 coupe. Which is bland...like an E90, but will probably grow on you too. I think Autocar mag featured it a few months ago. Keep waiting dude. Cheers

 

[danc]

The new A4 B8, according to this site (computer rendered) will look closely to this. Check these URLs out. I think it looks HOT

http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render.php?render=0038993

http://www.germancarzone.com/a4-s4-rs4/2512-official-audi-a4-b8-thread-spy-pics-info.html

 

[anaksarawak]

AUDI ...

 

[E46Fanatic]

As e46f said..i feel nothing can beat the symphony of that in-line 6pot @ 7k rpm..even my wife say's she likes the sound

My wife gets scared with the engine scream, but my 2year old son strapped in the baby seat behind loves it! Keeps asking me "Go fast fast!"

I actually like the intake induction roar under full throttle at low rpms. Its a growl which comes up and sounds awesome with the windows down. I remember we heard lovely symphony of the N52 under low and high revs at full throttle as bystanders in Sepang during the BMW Driver Training.. where you can hear tyres screeching and the lovely sound of the bone stock engine screaming and growling away before seeing the car appear from the turn down the main straight...

 

[Bimmer910]

My wife gets scared with the engine scream, but my 2year old son strapped in the baby seat behind loves it! Keeps asking me "Go fast fast!"

I actually like the intake induction roar under full throttle at low rpms. Its a growl which comes up and sounds awesome with the windows down. I remember we heard lovely symphony of the N52 under low and high revs at full throttle as bystanders in Sepang during the BMW Driver Training.. where you can hear tyres screeching and the lovely sound of the bone stock engine screaming and growling away before seeing the car appear from the turn down the main straight...

Comes with the territory when you have a 218hp powerplant laying under the bonnet Incidentally, i hear that the 325 in the US is a 3 litre engine pumping 215HP. Anyone care to shed some light on this ?

Alas with

 

[David Yong]

My take is E90 325i.... simply is not that I'm owning one, it is just that "you will never know until you get behind the wheel and drive it yourself". The longer you drive it, the more you like it. it is just so much differences as compared to others. E90 rocks!

 

[MANAMOHAN]

Nice pics of the new A4 guys. It does look hot. Much nicer than the A5, I think. Regarding the current E90 325i, it does have a lovely high revving engine. I'm sure owners appreciate the sounds it makes at 7k revs. And how the looks grow with time. I always say its the least bungled of Bangle's creation, thou some would say its the old Fiat Coupe instead. Anyway, the A4 has a fantastic shove that comes at less than 2k, all the way upto 6200revs. Much more useful in day to day driving, don't you guys think? I also think the the BM straight 6 engine thing is over-hyped, any old Cefiro V6 is smoother. BMW's take on the matter is puzzling, it pursued the N/A agenda for 30 years and scoffed at its competitors lightly turbocharged and supercharged engines. This, despite BMW making one of the worlds most powerful engines, a 1.5l turbocharged engine producing 1500hp for a Formula 1 Brabhams, in 1985 I think. BMW's top brass in the '90s made disparaging remarks about the previous RS cars turbocharged engines. The very idea of turbo-charging was revolting to them, saying it would ruin the engine character. Similarly, they said a V8 engine in the M3 would ruin it, make it nose heavy and upset the car's handling. And yet recently, it came out with a V8 M3 and a twin turbo 335i. But in typical BMW fashion, they have made it seem like it was their own idea all along... Having said that, cars evolve, so do their manufacturers. But a lot of car buyers only seem to be aware of the hype surrounding their own car models, having scarce knowledge of the history of cars. Even the history of their own car manufacturers. Hence the amusing statement about how a turbo 4 pot will never better a Munich sweet 6. And just like how your wives and kids who found the BMW thrilling, mine were bowled over by the looks and feel of the Audi, and certainly its straight line power. It behaved well, performed well, and there were no shoddy bits or things out of place no matter how hard we looked. The paint, quality of chrome, dials, switches, door lining, seats, everything. Every part I'd come into contact with on a day to day basis made me smile. The door handle, the physical feel of the steering, the gear knob, the engine response, the brake travel...the Audi felt like a work of art. The BMs we tested were fidgetty, at traffic lights it seems to want to inch forwards, despite foot firmly on brakes. The brakes were also grabby (although superb in rapid stops), ride quality was lacking, and it didn't acquit itself well over pot holed surfaces...probably due to the run flat tyres. There were also several glaring examples of sub-optimal workmanship. Perhaps its a CKD thing. Regarding ownership prospects, well, this is a BMW forum. I've owned an e36 coupe for many years now, and won't contemplate selling it, despite the bad times & phenemonal amount of money spent on getting it right. It has all the characteristic plus points of a Bimmer, plus it has a raw aggressiveness to it that somehow got diluted in the e46. Suffice to say, I haven't gotten my hands on an E92. The 335i seems a sizzler...despite the turbo eh? But it is a sweet, 6 cylinder Munich turbo engine, so that should make it all right. Cheers guys.

 

[infinityKL]

RGKID, just wondering if you tried this thread at any of the AUDI forums? would love to hear some comments to see how well it balance's!! hehe. Anyway gdLuck wt ur choices...

cheers...

 

[ALBundy]

Manamohan, you are absolutely right in presenting the historical facts. However, as you correctly mentioned, cars have evolved ever since. Similarly in automobile technology.

One reason for the success of the 335i engine is the HPI technology adopted from the diesel engine. Perhaps with the HPI, BMW feels its feasible to produce a turbo engine which meets their standards and requirement, not forgetting the advances in electronics and in turbo technology which have virtually eliminated the dreaded turbo lag and reliability issues.

Similarly, a M60 V8 in the 90s will be too heavy for e36 M3 series and would be impossible for the engineers to strive for 50:50 weight distribution, but with advances in metallurgy, the new V8 is lighter than the previous inline six in the E46 M3.

Cheers.:burnout:

 

[danc]

Hi eveyone,

I always notice (in other forums as well), when someone comes and post these type of questions, the post it and then they just disappear leaving all the rest to ding dong back and forth with their point of view. Further more I noticed that this is RGKID first post, so just wondering where is this coming from??? It's now gone to 4 pages and still no sign of OP. I am start to smell "Flame Bait"

 

[bmrocket]

Very good point danc...
Wonder where he's gone?????
Maybe went n bought a benz