My E36 Experience

[LCP]

Any loss of oil? Any idea what's the engine oil consumption like... 1 litre every 1000km? Or worse?

What's the condition of the spark plugs, are the electrode tips oily? Anyway, with the low compression on one cylinder, it could be any of the 3 items you listed, and one more... piston rings on that particular cylinder, especially if you have oil on plugs. Damaged or worn piston rings can damage cylinder walls, the absolute worst case is you have to re-bore... that would be fun, by going +0.5mm (yes, all car manufacturers do sell bigger pistons to cater for re-bored cylinders, I think BMW has oversize1 (+0.25mm) and oversize2 (+0.5mm)), you will get... crunch crunch 85.5mm bore, 75mm stroke, 6 cylinder.... 2584cc.... which will mean a bit more torque...

 

[LCP]

Btw, Anxious, did they do a wet compression test or a dry compression test, or both? Usually, if the result of wet compression showed some recovery, it means it is still not as bad.

 

[Lee36328]

Anxious,

Is there a major loss of power?

If there is, then tow (don't drive) it to a workshop for an overhaul job asap (at least top overhaul.)

My similar but slightly more serious experience...

On a drive up north (yeah, to your island, Anxious), I detected a slight one-off engine note, very subtle. Next, I noticed a serious loss of power. The car could barely move, and the engine/exhaust was protesting loudly. I limped into Penang and sent it to have the exhaust checked. Luckily I have a good friend in Penang who helped me. At first they suspected busted cat. Next, compression test showed major leak in 2 cylinders. No choice, flatbed the car all the way back to KL. Gasket burnt. Minor top overhaul which turned into medium overhaul because I wanted everything taken care of once and for all since the engine was already open, or in other words, I'm obsessed.

It occured to me the fuel consumption was steadily deteriorating prior to that, and I did not find a source for it earlier. It must have been a precursor, indicating the compression was going as the gasket started to fail. Now you know why I measure every km of consumption. If it deviates from my usual 11.x litre/100 km, I start checking for problems.

How heavy is your oil usage, ie. how much is the oil leaking into the cylinder? Heavy oil usage - time to overhaul.

 

[flash]

Yup, Lee is one guy who is really obsessed and sensitive with his fuel consumption and how his car performs. IIRC, he has practically changed or done up almost every part of his E36.

 

[anxious]

I am considering carbon cleaning my car. M Power at Ayer Itam has a restorer machine t6o decarbonise the engine. There is also a compression test done b4 and after and it only costs RM120 or so. I am really reluctant to open up the engine as apart from the minor vibration on D/N I have no problem.

Have u guys tried decarbonising?

Could carbon cause the compression in one cylinder to drop?

 

[elwine30]

anxious, decarbonized doesn't mean you are losing compression friend. but do keep up updated and maybe it does at the end. you never know.

 

[LCP]

anxious, excessive and uneven carbon deposits on the valve can cause it not to close properly, therefore there could be a loss of compression.

 

[1+2=3]

if it helps make you feel better bro, a low mileage car, or one thats hardly driven, let alone driven with some revs, could lead to carbon build-up.

let us know how it goes.. but usually, the iron block in the 325 is usually pretty bullet proof.

 

[anxious]

Ok did a second compresseion test in anor w/shop today.

The result also showed low compression in one of the cylinders.

Cylinder 1 2 4 5 6 averaged about 12

Cylinder 3 was 7.5 and went up to 10 after a leakdown/ wet compression test.

The guy told me it may be the piston rings.

Any clue....I really dont want to open up the engine unless absoluterly necessary. thanks

 

[anxious]

It was a wet compression test which is done by putting a few drops of oil into the spark plug hole.

Now if u see an increase in compression for the cylinder tested it means that its probably a piston ring?

I am so upset that my mech didnt do this test when I sent the car to him for full service after getting the car.

My bill came up to more than RM5k, this test should hv been done esp since he admitted to me that his observation reveals signs of overheating!

see http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=1086

 

[LCP]

Okay, if there's improvement in the wet compression, it looks like it is almost certain to be worn/damaged piston ring(s) on your cylinder no.3... I think it is possible to change piston rings without having to fish the whole engine out. But definitely hafta strip the engine already... open the top, remove the oil sump, etc...

 

[Lee36328]

I am so upset that my mech didnt do this test when I sent the car to him for full service after getting the car.

My bill came up to more than RM5k, this test should hv been done esp since he admitted to me that his observation reveals signs of overheating!

You have every right to be upset. This mentality is going for short-term business rather than long-term relationship.

I'd shop for another mechanic...

 

[anxious]

I am a bit calmer now.

The saddest part of the whole episode is the attitude of my mechanic.(who also is the owner of the workshop which specialises in BMWs)

I have known him for the past 4 years and have spent over RM16k on my E30 at his shop. His prices were a bit high but I never complained as the work was satisfactory.

Before I bought the E36, I took the car to him for his opinion. He test drove the car and said it seemed ok. I then requested for a modic which turned out no faults except the vanos solenoid valve(which I hv replaced since) Had I known what a compression test was and that it only took 15mins, I would hv requested one. Anyway I chose the car so I accept the responsibilty.

What upsets me is that right after getting the car I sent it to him for a full service and told him to list out all the parts that needed changing. I specifically asked him whether the engine was ok and he said it was.

He did work on the cooling system and fixed some leaks. He did tell me he suspected the car had some overheating before.

The car was in his shop for four days( my bill was over RM5k)and when I picked up the car I still heard felt a slight engine vibration at idle. He told me it could be looked into later, giving me the impression that it wasnt serious. I drove the car for 3 days and sent the car for respraying.

After getting the car back from respraying I still wasnt happy with the slight engine vibration, so I sent the car back to his shop overnight. He however had not looked into the vibration issue until I went to pick up the car. I insisted in anor modic test and the vanos solenoid valve fault reappeared. He told me that it may be wiring problem and he needed time to look into it and told me it would take 2 hours.

I couldnt sleep that night and next morning I was in his shop. He then started my car engine and I told that he noticed a slight rattle from the exhaust which may have been caused by the engine. It was only then did he remove the plugs and checked the compression which revealed one cylinder had low compression.

He then told me that he had to open up the engine to checked whether the previous overheating had affected the gasketr or valves. He said worst case scenario that my cylinder head could be cracked! I was so shocked!

Shouldnt he have discovered this when he did a full service on my car and I asked him to check everything!

I then did anor compression test at a different wshop which confirmed low compression @ cylinder 3. A wet compression test showed some improvement.

My mechanic is overseas now but I really have lost confidence in him. The worst part is that I thought my 4 years of loyalty meant something.

Now I probably got to get someonelse to fix my car.

Anyway despite this bitter experience, I still have no regrets about getting the car as it drives great (even if one cylinder isnt running optimumly).

 

[Lee36328]

Sorry to hear about your recent episode, an unfortunate blemish in what otherwise would have been a memorable experience - the early custodianship of the e36.

Glad to see it has not prevented you from enjoying your excellent ride.

Part of the experience of buying and running a car of a certain age is our initial hope, that we all cling to, that one day, all the faults will be sorted and the car will finally be perfect. It is not long before we realise, the attainment of that vision is elusive at best, impossible at worst. We can then settle down, and enjoy the never-ending journey of fettling our pride and joy, moving from one project to the next, reaching ever-higher levels of perfection, only to move the goalpost again.

Of course, if we are obssessive-compulsive with our cars, it can be an all-consuming passion. I trust you have an understanding better half. Else domestic bliss will soon be a distant memory.

The joys and pains we go through are all part of the experience of knowing your car. The pain will only enhance the pleasure by contrast. Enjoy the ride. There's more joys (and pain?) to discover.

 

[LCP]

Fu-yoh, very eloquent, hmmm, mods, is there an award for the most eloquent post of the year... heehee...

Best quote of all:
"...elusive at best, impossible at worst..."

Now anxious also got me anxious... might wanna check out my compression also, had already driven my car nearly 15000km since I got it over a year ago...

 

[anxious]

LCP

Go to MPower @ Ayer Itam, ask for Ah Soh. This guy is very helpful and they even have a proper tool for the compression test.

Lee

I am very uncomfortable as to the idea of opening up the engine. Based on you experience could you please share what needs to be done.

Initially I thought I would only need to do a top overhaul. But if it involves the piston rings I understand its a bigger job.

What else should I look out for?

Thanks

 

[LCP]

I always deal with Ah Han at MPower... Interesting to note that this MPower workshop name has nothing to do with BMW, in fact they specialises mostly in Japs performance cars... I think it originally stands for Motor Power. Note that in another thread somewhere in this forum (on the dyno thread), the newer shop called Northern Garage is a breakaway spin-off from Mpower...

 

[anxious]

My research points to piston rings.

That would mean an engine overhaul?

What would that entail?

 

[LCP]

Overhaul... to change piston rings is quite a major overhaul job already... not only the cylinder head will have to come apart, but the pistons too, and not sure, for M50, whether this will involve taking out the all-important crankshaft...

When you do your overhaul job, make sure you change whatever engine innards that is necessary (apart from the compulsory items that is part of the opening up process)...

Note that depending on the extent of the damage, the cylinder walls may also need to be polished, and if there are wear or deep scratches, the only way out is to re-bore, this would entail new pistons also.

 

[Lee36328]

Lee

I am very uncomfortable as to the idea of opening up the engine. Based on you experience could you please share what needs to be done.

Initially I thought I would only need to do a top overhaul. But if it involves the piston rings I understand its a bigger job.

What else should I look out for?

Thanks

Anxious,

Firstly, get a second opinion. Are you absolutely sure you want to get an overhaul, or can you live with the slight pressure loss in one cylinder and top up the engine oil more regularly for now?

If you decide to proceed, here are some of the parts that may or may not be involved depending on how deep you want to go...

Bottom gasket set
Grindvalve gasket set
cyl. Head gasket set
cyl head bolt
crankshaft sprocket
main bearing std
con rod bearing
piston rings
timing chain lower
timing chain upper
timing tensioner
upper timing guide
guide rail
vanos shim kit
oil pump chain
heater return pipe
t-stat
t-stat housing
camshaft sensor
crankshaft sensor
air sliding hose
valve

labour :
- overhaul
- skim cylinder head
- skim engine block surface

What you should watch out for :

1. Obviously, a workshop that you can trust to do the job

2. Get multiple quotes, some estimates of the parts that need to be changed, and avoid the cheapest quotes

3. Decide how deep you want to go, since the engine is open anyway.

A little tip : Ask them how they re-tighten the engine after the rebuild. It has to be done in a particular sequence, and to a particular torque level. If they can't tell you, skip to the next one.

The above list is quite comprehensive. In your case, it probably need not go to that extent.

Get it done right, and you won't have to worry about it for the next few years. But I repeat, first be sure that you need to, or want to get it done. I'd sleep over it for a while if I were you. Perhaps go take a drive in a friend's car and compare it with yours to see whether the performance is sufficiently lacking to warrant going down this path.