ECU re-mapping/program vs Piggyback Chip

[Calvin Tan]

Calvin

Ya i'm a bit dumb. Didnt study much. Just shows how smart a person u are. Cheers to u mate.

You started it "small kid"!

 

[Daniel]

Jerman, BS aside.

Here is the real deal.

Remapping your ECU or Piggybacking will only give you a temporary solution to your quest for more power. Its not a long term answer.

Why?

Because the BMW ecu is too smart for its own good. Overtime, it will 'relearn' and recalibibrate itself to counter for the new air/fuel/igniction map which your chip/piggyback has introduced.

Unless.

Your piggyback/chip had a manual override to prevent that from happening.

Albundy,Funfer,Bailey,

I just love all of you guys. I just posted an innocent topic ie ECU re-mapping vs Piggyback chip and...........I ended up "changing a car"???

Thanks guys!

p/s: Calvin got a point............even those Evo/Subaru owners with their powerful machines still do mods, mah?
In today's world, there is never enough, yes?

 

[Calvin Tan]

Jerman, BS aside.

Here is the real deal.

Remapping your ECU or Piggybacking will only give you a temporary solution to your quest for more power. Its not a long term answer.

Why?

Because the BMW ecu is too smart for its own good. Overtime, it will 'relearn' and recalibibrate itself to counter for the new air/fuel/igniction map which your chip/piggyback has introduced.

Unless.

Your piggyback/chip had a manual override to prevent that from happening.

This will not happen to ECU remapping and chip.

 

[ALBundy]

Jerman, BS aside.

Here is the real deal.

Remapping your ECU or Piggybacking will only give you a temporary solution to your quest for more power. Its not a long term answer.

Why?

Because the BMW ecu is too smart for its own good. Overtime, it will 'relearn' and recalibibrate itself to counter for the new air/fuel/igniction map which your chip/piggyback has introduced.

Unless.

Your piggyback/chip had a manual override to prevent that from happening.

Half yes, half no.

When the ECU is in close loop (meaning to say, readings from the O2 sensor are used by the ECU --> iteration process), what you said is right. The iteration process will continue until the ECU finds the optimum settings, which is the pre-determined settings by the manufacturer. In other words, the "cheating" process by the piggyback will sort of wear off in due time, where it will be rendered useless.

HOWEVER, when you floor your accelerator OR when you rev past 3000rpm (sometimes 3500rpm, depending on which model), the ECU will revert to an open loop system where there is no iteration process and the "cheating" process by the piggyback ECU is effective.

The other way is to run an open loop system, of which I am currently doing so.

Both system will have its drawbacks. The better way would be to dyno tune the car and save the new mapping in an eprom and install it on the original ECU. Likewise for OBD2 cars, flash the new mapping (obtained through dyno) directly into the ECU. Heard this is possible now but not in Msia yet.

 

[Jerman]

bro,
Many thanks for the comments again.........the story continues................now it's getting to be "very deep"

 

[Daniel]

Half yes, half no.

When the ECU is in close loop (meaning to say, readings from the O2 sensor are used by the ECU --> iteration process), what you said is right. The iteration process will continue until the ECU finds the optimum settings, which is the pre-determined settings by the manufacturer. In other words, the "cheating" process by the piggyback will sort of wear off in due time, where it will be rendered useless.

HOWEVER, when you floor your accelerator OR when you rev past 3000rpm (sometimes 3500rpm, depending on which model), the ECU will revert to an open loop system where there is no iteration process and the "cheating" process by the piggyback ECU is effective.

The other way is to run an open loop system, of which I am currently doing so.

Both system will have its drawbacks. The better way would be to dyno tune the car and save the new mapping in an eprom and install it on the original ECU. Likewise for OBD2 cars, flash the new mapping (obtained through dyno) directly into the ECU. Heard this is possible now but not in Msia yet.

Good Point, but the issues which i have now are actually when i rev it past 4000rpm. From that rev point onwards, it all goes pear-shaped. My AFR meter indicates LEAN and the car surges. Its knocking too. So no more WOT runs. But if i gently rev it up, no issues at all. Was considering reseting the ECU by removing the batt for 15mins......but is that going to reset the ECU's recalibrated fuel map?

Guess this happens when we try shortcuts. So no more. Gonna get a F-Con installed after CNY and go from there.

 

[ALBundy]

Dude, you are running a piggyback now?? If you are, ensure its running on open loop. Closed loop wont be ideal in your application

Disconnecting the battery wont reset the settings in your piggyback ECU, assuming you have one installed.

 

[Daniel]

Bundy,

Yes i have a Apexi Select SAFC installed. It doesn't allow for a manual bypass, thus the problem I am having now.

I need another type of Piggyback.

About the disconnecting of the batt, the piggyback has flash memory, so i as refering to the main ecu.

 

[fabianyee]

Bundy,

Yes i have a Apexi Select SAFC installed. It doesn't allow for a manual bypass, thus the problem I am having now.

I need another type of Piggyback.

About the disconnecting of the batt, the piggyback has flash memory, so i as refering to the main ecu.

Haven't heard of anyone using the Apexi Select SAFC on BMW. Most of those using Piggyback ECU are with Orbit, UNIChip and SMT...

 

[ALBundy]

Yup, SAFC more suitable for Japs, and usually NA cars use it. I know my exhaust welder uses it too, and blew his engine (Satri-lution with more than 300hp) before Hari Raya.

Not a true piggyback ECU. It alters the signal of the air mass sensor, tricking the ECU to send different signal to the injectors.

 

[Daniel]

yeah, the SAFC Select was supposed to be for Conti cars, but its exactly the same as the 'normal' units, the only difference is that the manual comes with visual instructions of the plugs of different conti car manufacturers.

Well, I used it, paid for it and i can tell you, don't get it, unless you just want to use it for it monitoring capabilities.

 

[Daniel]

or i could just install four more SAFCs and that together would probably give me better mileage and more power.

Therefore:

MORE POWER = BETTER MILEAGE

which totally goes against every tuner's understanding where power gains are directly connected to getting more air and fuel into the engine and exhausts out.

 

[McFir7]

sorry guys..but does it mean we cant use the safc2?how come i heard some could use..i just wonder..was thinking to get one too

 

[Daniel]

McFir7.

Those that say can use are probably the ones trying to sell you one.

But in a way you can use one. For my application, it couldn't.

But if you just want to use its monitoring capabilities then sure, but even after your tuner tunes it to your car, the BMW ECU will eventually override those settings, which totally defeats the purpose of installing it in the 1st place.

 

[McFir7]

thanx daniel for ur info..i m thinking to fix over my e36 318is..i read some where said that could get 10 hp wit safc2..

i m also read bout calvin e30 he fix a chip n a piggy back..it that good for my car guys?

 

[Daniel]

What exactly is wrong with your 318is that you require air/fuel adjustment?

Chips i do not believe in it. Piggyback, yes it works, and i have the dyno printout to prove it.

 

[fabianyee]

Chips i do not believe in it. Piggyback, yes it works, and i have the dyno printout to prove it.

If you have a properly done chip remap, it'll be better compared to piggyback. Chip remap stores the 'upgrade'. In a piggyback ECU set up, the Piggyback is tricking the actual ECU with the piggyback map values. And when the ECU begins to 'learn' the engine with the piggyback maps, it would slowly go back to its default map as 'burned' in the ECU chip.

Calvin Tan has a chip with increased rev cut as the piggyback ECU can't raise the revcut pre-programed on the ECU chip.

Wat's good about piggyback ecu is that you can dyno tune the engine or tune as u drive on the road. U have to pay more to dyno tune a chip / remap.

 

[XXX]

so my unichip how? every once a while have to sent back to bluff ECU again?

 

[ALBundy]

so my unichip how? every once a while have to sent back to bluff ECU again?

What fabian said is only 50% correct. He is talking about a closed loop situation.

When your engine is above 3000rpm (generally) and your throttle is at WOT position, the ECU will ignore the readings from the O2 sensor, and hence the open loop situation where the piggyback will be effective.

The holy grail is here in Singapore I was told. BVO apparently can dyno tune your engine and flash the memory into the ECU (for OBD2 cars), or for your old jalopy, can burn the new mapping into a chip and replace the existing one.

Hope this helps.

 

[Daniel]

so if chips are so good then how come all the pro racers are running Motecs and Haltechs.

Simple re-chip mar, but is chipping able to adjust igniction timing etc? Since a chip only plays with that ever the OEM chip is doing, it does seem limited in what it can give for high power applications.