E90 325i Sports Edition

[bmwjunkie]

Where in the world did you manage to get it for RM203K? Do share with us how you got it, will definitely want one!

Cheers

 

[safri]

Easy, get the 525i sports IF price is you main consideration...i presume you're in tax haven territory, surely, you are not thinking of bringing the car back onshore, so take full advantage of it, go for the best!

Hey guys, I've been following this thread for some time now but just purely lurking

I'm fortunate enough to be in the position to consider the 325i Sports at a tax-free price of RM203k, and I test drove it at AB Glenmarie last week, probably just after you guys did!

Must say I'm very close to signing the dotted line, but there's also an option of the E60 525i Sports at RM277k, which is "just" RM74k more.

I realise I'm posting this in a thread full of E90 fanatics (tell me if I should post this elsewhere!), but I'd like an honest evaluation of this vs the 525i, specifically in the performance area.

For me so far, the 325i Sports wins because:

1. Newer model, the E60 is already due for its mid-life facelift and the current one will be outdated in a few months, and not to mention completely replaced in 2010.

2. More compact interior, as the rear seats will frequently be empty and the interior in front IMHO is more snug and driver-friendly than the E60.

3. Better resale value over the E60 because of its pricing structure right now, and lower total cost of ownership over the years.

However the 5 of course has so much more road presence, looks like a M5 and IMHO looks a lot more aggressive than the muted and understated E90 even with its M sports kit. And you get a few more toys like active steering, and much nicer 18" wheels (don't particularly like their choice of rims, give me the E46 M3 ones anytime!).

And it's "only" RM74k more...

 

[KL2DC]

.... but there's also an option of the E60 525i Sports at RM277k, which is "just" RM74k more.

....but I'd like an honest evaluation of this vs the 525i, specifically in the performance area.

For me so far, the 325i Sports wins because:

1. Newer model, the E60 is already due for its mid-life facelift and the current one will be outdated in a few months, and not to mention completely replaced in 2010.

2. More compact interior, as the rear seats will frequently be empty and the interior in front IMHO is more snug and driver-friendly than the E60.

3. Better resale value over the E60 because of its pricing structure right now, and lower total cost of ownership over the years.

However the 5 of course has so much more road presence, looks like a M5 and IMHO looks a lot more aggressive than the muted and understated E90 even with its M sports kit.

First of all...welcome!

Second of all, if you base it on your logic that the next bump up is only xxx more, it'd never end. Trust me . There's always something within the next price point

I can see that you've given this much due consideration

It really boils down to what you're looking for in a car. What is your immediate car needs? What makes you tick? Which car drives you the most? Space requirements? Features requirements etc.

I evaluate cars on their merits and not on what others would think. Unfortunately, most folks place a lot of importance on status and
'glamor' rolleyes: ), hence the popularity of such cars as the MB E200 which could barely move on its own power

But I can see that you're an enthusiast so that's cool

Here's my take:

1) Performence wise they should actually perform similarly. Judging from official curb weights, about 100lbs seperate the 2, giving the E90 a slight power-to-weight figure (E60 0-60: 7.6 seconds, E90 0-60: 6.9 seconds).

2) I've sat in both, the E60 (99.1 cu ft) is marginally more spacious than the E90 (93 cu ft). You'd feel this more in the front passenger area (you can feel the additional width). The rear space is comparable, the E60's rear side humps actually makes seating a touch narrower. The E60 (14 cu ft) trumps the E90 in trunk capacity (12 cu ft) and is better shaped.

3) Styling is always subjective. In my eyes, the E90 is the most balanced of all Bangle's contemporary design. Yes its more muted but its also more classic. The simple lines respond better to modification. I'm still not a big fan of the E60's styling, even after all these years. I can't get used to the eyebrows up front and the angry rear end. The facelift is very minor and doesn't address this shortcomings. In contrast, the E65/66's facelift was more succesful. I'll give the E90 a thumbs up in this area.

4) Features set. The E90 exchanges the E60's active steering for i-drive navigation. Otherwise they are similarly equipped across the board (m-sport kit, wheels, suspension etc etc). BUT the E90 comes with 74k in the trunk

The point I'm trying to make is that these 2 cars are more similar than you think in terms of performance and interior space. True, the E60 is a bigger car and has a bigger trunk, and styling is in the eye of the beholder. Dynamically, they feel similar most of the time (the e90 is more nimbler and tighter when the road calls for it) in day to day use like in-town driving and highway driving.

So since they're somewhat similar, why pay 74k more for the 525i Sport? For slightly more metal? For a little more trunk space? For more status? Personally, I'd invest the 74k and enjoy my BMW. I'd actually welcome less flash...

So do yourself a favor, and give the two a thorough test drive and then tell us what you'd rather do with that 74k.

Cheers!

 

[nerraw]

Sorry, but my blood isn't anywhere near royal Getting this under Malaysia My Second Home, which allows me one (and only one!) CKD car at tax free prices. I'm only allowed to sell if I pay the necessary taxes on the depreciated value of the car at point of sale, which basically means that I will be keeping this car for quite some time to come!

Doing research from a tax-free perspective really shows how strange Malaysia's tax structure on cars is, and that results in BMW and Mercedes having to price models sometimes at below even German prices so that they can sell it here.

For example, the 320i SE is at RM170k tax-free, and the standard 325i is at RM194k tax free. Which makes the RM9k to upgrade to the 325i Sports really a no-brainer.

The quantum of tax that you pay for your full retail price models depends more on the cubic capacity of the engine, and less on the actual value of the car.

In the case of the C-class (no, I wasn't really considering this!) this means that the C200K Elegance (1796cc) that retails at RM238k is at RM178,591 tax free; compared to the C230 Avantgarde (2496cc) that retails at RM268k and is at RM178,538 tax free!

This gap is not so pronounced with BMW at we're comparing a 2.0 and a 2.5, but I still believe they're very much "underpricing" the 325i Sports to make it competitive.

 

[nerraw]

Thanks for the warm welcome and detailed reply!

Yes, I agree about the "never ending" bit... the new S-class CKD is "only" RM502k tax-free, and I could probably hire a driver...

I've test-driven both, and slightly prefer the 3 over the 5 in terms of its handling. More nimble and agile too, and for some weird reason I could hear the 3's sweet 6-pot better than 5... perhaps less insulation in the cheaper car?

Interior-wise as I said the 5 appeals less to me, something about it is just less snug and driver-orientated. I won't really be using the back seats very much, and it will be unlikely that I have more than 2 people behind for long-distance trips.

I do kinda like the active steering though, much more useful than the satnav which is a cool toy to have but probably a white elephant after the novelty wears off!

Performance - thanks for your figures, score another to the E90!

Styling - yes, this is very subjective. I have a problem with the rear lights, hopefully the blacklines will sort that out a little. The front is not bad, but very dependent on the angle from which you view it. Wheels - I don't know why but the 18" rims don't look like 18" to me. It's nice, but just doesn't have the effect of the E60's 18" or even that of the E46's M-sports rims!

And speaking of wheels, the E90's runflats will cost me much more to run, in the E60 I can just swap to standard tyres and have a spare in the boot once the initial set wears out.

The E60, IMHO, is better externally and styling-wise.

It's however pretty tough to justify that it's worth another RM74k plus the added cost of running and insuring it.

Any E60 owners here to help make my decision more difficult?

First of all...welcome!

Second of all, if you base it on your logic that the next bump up is only xxx more, it'd never end. Trust me . There's always something within the next price point

I can see that you've given this much due consideration

It really boils down to what you're looking for in a car. What is your immediate car needs? What makes you tick? Which car drives you the most? Space requirements? Features requirements etc.

I evaluate cars on their merits and not on what others would think. Unfortunately, most folks place a lot of importance on status and
'glamor' rolleyes: ), hence the popularity of such cars as the MB E200 which could barely move on its own power

But I can see that you're an enthusiast so that's cool

Here's my take:

1) Performence wise they should actually perform similarly. Judging from official curb weights, about 100lbs seperate the 2, giving the E90 a slight power-to-weight figure (E60 0-60: 7.6 seconds, E90 0-60: 6.9 seconds).

2) I've sat in both, the E60 (99.1 cu ft) is marginally more spacious than the E90 (93 cu ft). You'd feel this more in the front passenger area (you can feel the additional width). The rear space is comparable, the E60's rear side humps actually makes seating a touch narrower. The E60 (14 cu ft) trumps the E90 in trunk capacity (12 cu ft) and is better shaped.

3) Styling is always subjective. In my eyes, the E90 is the most balanced of all Bangle's contemporary design. Yes its more muted but its also more classic. The simple lines respond better to modification. I'm still not a big fan of the E60's styling, even after all these years. I can't get used to the eyebrows up front and the angry rear end. The facelift is very minor and doesn't address this shortcomings. In contrast, the E65/66's facelift was more succesful. I'll give the E90 a thumbs up in this area.

4) Features set. The E90 exchanges the E60's active steering for i-drive navigation. Otherwise they are similarly equipped across the board (m-sport kit, wheels, suspension etc etc). BUT the E90 comes with 74k in the trunk

The point I'm trying to make is that these 2 cars are more similar than you think in terms of performance and interior space. True, the E60 is a bigger car and has a bigger trunk, and styling is in the eye of the beholder. Dynamically, they feel similar most of the time (the e90 is more nimbler and tighter when the road calls for it) in day to day use like in-town driving and highway driving.

So since they're somewhat similar, why pay 74k more for the 525i Sport? For slightly more metal? For a little more trunk space? For more status? Personally, I'd invest the 74k and enjoy my BMW. I'd actually welcome less flash...

So do yourself a favor, and give the two a thorough test drive and then tell us what you'd rather do with that 74k.

Cheers!

 

[E46Fanatic]

Just to add, I believe the E90 iDrive doesn't come with the bluetooth module. Basically, the Communication menu just states please call BMW 1-800 xxxx or something. The saleslady mentioned that it doesn't come with bluetooth while the E60s do. Anyone can confirm?

 

[David Yong]

Just to add, I believe the E90 iDrive doesn't come with the bluetooth module. Basically, the Communication menu just states please call BMW 1-800 xxxx or something. The saleslady mentioned that it doesn't come with bluetooth while the E60s do. Anyone can confirm?

Yup, you are absolutely right.

 

[Juan Powerblow]

I've been wrestling with this dilemma too with my biz partners coaxing me to get the E60 cos the enhanced status reflects well on the company, i.e. if the kuli drives a 5-series, what more the bosses! In the end, I resolved to "settle" for the E90 cos:-

1. I still got a boy racer streak and a small differential like 0.7 secs advantage to century is still somewhat appealing;

2. The E60's styling just never "grew" on me despite the later M-sports kitted version which just gave it a fatter and saggier arse... ooops, bottom rear end;

3. Being a swinging single who don't play golf, the added space means nothing;

4. Yes, the E90 feels more "snug";

5. Less likely to be car-jacked in an E90;

6. Less likely to be construed as driving father's car;

7. Like the idea of having saved the extra cost to splash on mods;

8. Easier to park the E90;

9. Not geeky enough to appreciate what bluetooth is and why it's called that; and ultimately,

10. A lot of 5-series drivers in this forum are ugly and grossly overweight! Hahahahaha!!!

 

[E46Fanatic]

Actually a flashy big car is bad for business esp. if you are younger. Breeds envy instead of respect, and your customers will be always using it as an excuse for discounts!!

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Actually a flashy big car is bad for business esp. if you are younger. Breeds envy instead of respect, and your customers will be always using it as an excuse for discounts!!

Yup, I also have this view. If you're "dependent" on someone for business, they are tempted to take advantage!

 

[KL2DC]

1. I still got a boy racer streak and a small differential like 0.7 secs advantage to century is still somewhat appealing;

2. The E60's styling just never "grew" on me despite the later M-sports kitted version which just gave it a fatter and saggier arse... ooops, bottom rear end;

3. Being a swinging single who don't play golf, the added space means nothing;

4. Yes, the E90 feels more "snug";

5. Less likely to be car-jacked in an E90;

6. Less likely to be construed as driving father's car;

7. Like the idea of having saved the extra cost to splash on mods;

8. Easier to park the E90;

9. Not geeky enough to appreciate what bluetooth is and why it's called that; and ultimately,

10. A lot of 5-series drivers in this forum are ugly and grossly overweight! Hahahahaha!!!

Yes, yes and yes!

+1 .... x 1,000

 

[BMW9700]

I've been wrestling with this dilemma too with my biz partners coaxing me to get the E60 cos the enhanced status reflects well on the company, i.e. if the kuli drives a 5-series, what more the bosses! In the end, I resolved to "settle" for the E90 cos:-

1. I still got a boy racer streak and a small differential like 0.7 secs advantage to century is still somewhat appealing;

2. The E60's styling just never "grew" on me despite the later M-sports kitted version which just gave it a fatter and saggier arse... ooops, bottom rear end;

3. Being a swinging single who don't play golf, the added space means nothing;

4. Yes, the E90 feels more "snug";

5. Less likely to be car-jacked in an E90;

6. Less likely to be construed as driving father's car;

7. Like the idea of having saved the extra cost to splash on mods;

8. Easier to park the E90;

9. Not geeky enough to appreciate what bluetooth is and why it's called that; and ultimately,

10. A lot of 5-series drivers in this forum are ugly and grossly overweight! Hahahahaha!!!

how true...have been having sleepless nights thinking of the two models...is there a support group i could join? its becoming a nightmare to choose between the two..


1) sure..still got the 'boy racer' attitude..my present car feeds my craving..
2) E60 looked mighty ugly when i first saw it..but now seems to look like a transformed duckling now..
3)i am married and have 1 kid..the extra space does not mean much but could mean more when you consider the outlaws..
4)cannot dispute that..the E90 feels so snug and comfy
5)dunno about that..carjackers might have the same preferences as us and might be following this forum..he he
6)with the sudden onset of grey hair, i think that sounds unlikely
7)might not have much money left for mods on either model except for the air freshner.
8)Ikea car park well designed for E60
9)whats that blue thing?
10)pls dont reveal too much about me laa!!

final verdict:

i would go for the 325i with i drive..my biggest complain would be the run flats without the spare..gives me the creeps..

regards

 

[KL2DC]

BMW9700: Support group? What about us?! lol

Out of all bangle's design the E60 still hasn't settled with me. I used to abhor the Z4 but now find it awesome looking. Same for the E63/64, 65/66 and so forth. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy one (the upcoming 535i turbo sounds interesting) but there's no way I can convincingly say its a 'pretty' car.

Wrt switching out RFTs, we've discussed this: A good latex sealant fix-a-flat should cover you in-town. I'd add a spare wheel/tire set and jack in the trunk for long distance. You can apply the same practice if you're paranoid about travelling far with RFTs. The consensus is you can lengthen the range of RFTs if you keep pumping air into it. The RFTs stated range/limitations is when running on zero pressure.

 

[danc]

Anyone has driven the sports and standard version back to back to give a comparison?

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Anyone has driven the sports and standard version back to back to give a comparison?

Well, both E46F and myself have driven the SP and stock version on separate occasions. The stock version is noticeably more comfortable and feels much closer to an E-Class. The SP version has more noticeable "thuds" over road imperfections but some fellas like me would trade comfort for the more apparent road "feel". Otherwise, the driving experience is noticeably similar. I didn't test both cars to its limits but I expect the SP to be grippier with more poise i.e. stays more flat in extreme circumstances.

 

[KL2DC]

Otherwise, the driving experience is noticeably similar. I didn't test both cars to its limits but I expect the SP to be grippier with more poise i.e. stays more flat in extreme circumstances.

+1

I'm basing it on factory Sports calibrations vs standard. I haven't driven the M-Sports calibration. Between Sports and Standard, there isn't much difference in feel/handling. The Standard tracks very well. However the Sports help reduce some high speed floating that the Standard tend to exhibit especially in undulating high speed sweeper curves and drastic elevation changes/crests (don't ask me how I noted this ). Wrt ride comfort and grip, a lot of the difference lie in the wheels/tires setup.

 

[danc]

Thanks people for sharing as I was comtemplating on upgrading to M sports suspension. But by the way you all describe maybe I will save my money for now. I am still not sure about the blacklines. I have grown to like to rear of the E90. I guess I need to see the blacklines first hand to make a call.

Anyone planning for a TT?

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Ultimately, the 15 mm drop with 18" staggered (wider) wheels make the E90 look a lot better! In fact, some joker thought it resembled the Merc CLS. So, for RM20K, I think it's worth appeasing the hiaw-ness in me while sacrificing a wee bit on comfort. The way I see it, buying a BMW is mainly about deriving superior handling and chic appeal.

 

[KL2DC]

Ultimately, the 15 mm drop with 18" staggered (wider) wheels make the E90 look a lot better!

+1

All contemporary Bangle directed designs are dependent on color, wheel size and stance. Variations can change the look of the car almost drastically. Look at the E60 and E65 for e.g.

 

[E46Fanatic]

Ultimately, the 15 mm drop with 18" staggered (wider) wheels make the E90 look a lot better! In fact, some joker thought it resembled the Merc CLS. So, for RM20K, I think it's worth appeasing the hiaw-ness in me while sacrificing a wee bit on comfort. The way I see it, buying a BMW is mainly about deriving superior handling and chic appeal.

JPB has got the ball rolling by placing his booking for the E90 325i sports. He called me yesterday, and changed his mind and confirmed the with the sales lady that he'll pick up the CBU E92 323i coupe instead. Since the car is readilly available, he should be driving his new stylllling, chick magnet E92 coupe by end of this week!!

Most likely, with the new ride, our club's most eligible bachelor will no longer be eligible after a couple of months LOL..