328i vs 320d F30. Dilemma...

[patgwh]

I think supersonic have a point. The diesel based on euro standards are looking at emission and pollutants coming from the exhaust into the environment. So far the euro standard didn't mention anything on performance. But looking at other forums on this subject reveals that the engine made for euro 4 have higher temperature requiring special types of engine oil to lubricate the internals. Apart from changes in the engine, the exhaust system have the most changes i.e. catcon, dpf, SCR, electronic EGR, etc. All of these changes working towards meeting the stringent emission standards of euro 4.

Of course, the interesting question here would be what happens when euro 4 is introduced? Will this fuel be compatible with existing euro 2m engines? And what are the repercussions be? I guess this applies to petrol too, no? :39:

 

[Mavik]

I think supersonic have a point. The diesel based on euro standards are looking at emission and pollutants coming from the exhaust into the environment. So far the euro standard didn't mention anything on performance. But looking at other forums on this subject reveals that the engine made for euro 4 have higher temperature requiring special types of engine oil to lubricate the internals. Apart from changes in the engine, the exhaust system have the most changes i.e. catcon, dpf, SCR, electronic EGR, etc. All of these changes working towards meeting the stringent emission standards of euro 4.

Of course, the interesting question here would be what happens when euro 4 is introduced? Will this fuel be compatible with existing euro 2m engines? And what are the repercussions be? I guess this applies to petrol too, no? :39:

When Euro4M is released here, the diesel owners will rejoice. No issues when swapping over to Euro4M with our current engines. But it is very sad that we produce all those diesel here in Malaysia (Euro 5M grade diesel with low sulphur content) but export it for $$$ and have none for us to use. Now if I can siphon off the diesel straight to my house hehehe.

 

[klk]

http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/foru...e-and-splash-water-cause-my-bmw-f30-320i-down

 

[patgwh]

When Euro4M is released here, the diesel owners will rejoice. No issues when swapping over to Euro4M with our current engines. But it is very sad that we produce all those diesel here in Malaysia (Euro 5M grade diesel with low sulphur content) but export it for $$$ and have none for us to use. Now if I can siphon off the diesel straight to my house hehehe.

If the euro 4 fuels are here, our current setup without the more sophisticated exhaust system may not be able to really meet the expected emission standards of euro 4, hence may not be as green as it was meant to be. Then we have this "idea" of going for B10 instead of B5 diesels. I really hope these people know what they are doing... i guess not.

 

[Mavik]

If the euro 4 fuels are here, our current setup without the more sophisticated exhaust system may not be able to really meet the expected emission standards of euro 4, hence may not be as green as it was meant to be. Then we have this "idea" of going for B10 instead of B5 diesels. I really hope these people know what they are doing... i guess not.

I doubt that when we have Euro4M diesel, its all about emission standards. Its definitely a catch up game to the rest of the world. It would take a huge amount of capital expenditure for our local refineries to upgrade all of their existing systems to process Euro5M standard (actually they already do and its purely for export purposes).

 

[patgwh]

I doubt that when we have Euro4M diesel, its all about emission standards. Its definitely a catch up game to the rest of the world. It would take a huge amount of capital expenditure for our local refineries to upgrade all of their existing systems to process Euro5M standard (actually they already do and its purely for export purposes).

Any difference between the Euro4 and Euro4M?

 

[patgwh]

In regards to whether to go petrol or diesel, here are some info that may prove useful:

• PRO: Diesels get great mileage. They typically deliver 25 to 30 percent better fuel economy than similarly performing gasoline engines. Diesels also can deliver as much or more fuel economy than traditional gasoline-electric hybrids, depending on the models involved and whatever rapidly developing automotive technology achieves.
  
• CON: Although diesel fuelhttp://www.dummies.com/how-to/conte...engines.html#glossary-diesel_fuel;_diesel_oil used to be cheaper than gasoline, it may now often costs the same amount or more. Diesel fuel is also used for commercial trucks, home and industrial generators, and heating oil, so as demand for diesel passenger vehicles grows, the price of diesel fuel is likely to continue to rise because of competition from those other users.
  
  Even if the price goes up, diesel fuel would have to be 25 to 30 percent more expensive than gas to erase the cost advantage of a diesel engine's greater fuel efficiency.
  
• PRO: Diesel fuel is one of the most efficient and energy dense fuels available today. Because it contains more usable energy than gasoline, it delivers better fuel economy.
• CON: Although diesel fuel is considered more efficient because it converts heat into energy rather than sending the heat out the tailpipe as gas-powered vehicles do, it doesn’t result in flashy high-speed performance. In some ways, a gasoline-powered engine is like a racehorse — high-strung, fiery, and fast — whereas a diesel engine is more like a workhorse — slower, stronger, and more enduring.
• PRO: Diesels have no spark plugshttp://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-pros-and-cons-of-diesel-engines.html#glossary-spark_plug or distributors. Therefore, they never need ignition tune-ups.
  
• CON: Diesels still need regular maintenance to keep them running. You have to change the oil and the air, oil, and fuel filters. Cleaner diesel fuels no longer require you to bleed excess water out of the system, but many vehicles still have water separators that need to be emptied manually.
  
• PRO: Diesel engines are built more ruggedly to withstand the rigors of higher compression. Consequently, they usually go much longer than gas-powered vehicles before they require major repairs. Mercedes-Benz holds the longevity record with several vehicles clocking more than 900,000 miles on their original engines! You may not want to hang onto the same vehicle for 900,000 miles, but longevity and dependability like that can sure help with trade-in and resale values.
• CON: If you neglect the maintenance and the fuel ignition system breaks down, you may have to pay a diesel mechanic more money to get things unsnaggled than you would to repair a gasoline system because diesel engines are more technologically advanced.
  
• PRO: Because of the way it burns fuel, a diesel engine provides far more torque to the driveshaft than does a gasoline engine. As a result, most modern diesel passenger cars are much faster from a standing start than their gas-powered counterparts. What’s more, diesel-powered trucks, SUVs, and cars also can out-tow gas-powered vehicles while still delivering that improved fuel economy.

Source: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-pros-and-cons-of-diesel-engines.html

 

[ooichingeng]

I've drove both the Diesel engine ( N47 ) and petrol engine ( N20 ) in F10 and I've obviously detected a big different in driving smoothness where the diesel engines having "engine break" feeling during slow speed cruising even set at comfort + mode, but in the petrol engine I don't have that feeling and it's smooth with comfort mode. The smoothness make me prefer to drive the petrol engine even the diesel produce higher torque.
I'm just wondering any sifu around can advise, whether the F30 diesel and petrol are also having the same scenario as most of the review didn't touch on these.

 

[jennypenny]

I've drove both the Diesel engine ( N47 ) and petrol engine ( N20 ) in F10 and I've obviously detected a big different in driving smoothness where the diesel engines having "engine break" feeling during slow speed cruising even set at comfort + mode, but in the petrol engine I don't have that feeling and it's smooth with comfort mode. The smoothness make me prefer to drive the petrol engine even the diesel produce higher torque.
I'm just wondering any sifu around can advise, whether the F30 diesel and petrol are also having the same scenario as most of the review didn't touch on these.

diesel cars have shorter rev range. so they need to change gears faster. hence, less comfortable.

thats why acceleration times of diesel cars with same power and torque will always be slower than petrol cars.

 

[E46Fanatic]

I approached T14 of SIC behind a MK VI GTI and exited the corner together, overtook the GTI almost half way at the back straight......it's sheer power!

and sheer torque! 280NM vs. 350NM.

 

[jennypenny]

and sheer torque! 280NM vs. 350NM.

328i has only 320NM (vs.350NM) but it will leave the 320d without the black smoke when smoking.

 

[E46Fanatic]

328i has only 320NM (vs.350NM) but it will leave the 320d without the black smoke when smoking.

I recall the F30 328i has 350NM torque similar to the A4 2.0T EA888 Quattro engine here. But the MK6 GTI has only 280NM as it's missing the Audi valvelift system on it's EA888 block.

 

[vieri777]

Yep.
328i = 350Nm @ 1250-4800rpm
320d = 380Nm @ 1750-2750rpm

320d has 30Nm or 7.9% more than 328i
BUT 328i gets its torque Earlier and Longer ie throughout 3,550 revolutions
While, 320d only gets max torq throughout 1,000 revolutions

 

[splee]

Yep.
328i = 350Nm @ 1250-4800rpm
320d = 380Nm @ 1750-2750rpm

Although the peak torque for 320d is higher than 328i, the 328i torque curve, however, is wider compared to 320d.

 

[Mavik]

Yep.
328i = 350Nm @ 1250-4800rpm
320d = 380Nm @ 1750-2750rpm

320d has 30Nm or 7.9% more than 328i
BUT 328i gets its torque Earlier and Longer ie throughout 3,550 revolutions
While, 320d only gets max torq throughout 1,000 revolutions

Actually the 320d will get the max torque earlier just that after once it has reached the max torque, it will tapper down in terms of speed and thats where the 328i will overtake the 320d.

 

[docrayboy]

Actually the 320d will get the max torque earlier just that after once it has reached the max torque, it will tapper down in terms of speed and thats where the 328i will overtake the 320d.

dont look at 320d vs 328i numbers alone. Use your butt dyno-go test both the cars one arfter the other! Sorry but the 328i doesnt just doesnt do it for my butt dyno...

 

[Mavik]

dont look at 320d vs 328i numbers alone. Use your butt dyno-go test both the cars one arfter the other! Sorry but the 328i doesnt just doesnt do it for my butt dyno...

I wasn't look at the numbers, just explaining to the other guy what those numbers mean. Butt dyno, not enough for me. My butt is big and fat so the 320d doesn't really do it for me.

 

[patgwh]

diesel cars have shorter rev range. so they need to change gears faster. hence, less comfortable.

thats why acceleration times of diesel cars with same power and torque will always be slower than petrol cars.

Diesels have shorter rev range because no need to pusing pusing to make the wheel turn compare to petrols, diesels just pusing a bit can make the wheel turn already, that's why it is very torque and good pickup. In terms of comfortable due to change of gear - got nothing to do with it being a diesel engine, it is the gearbox area selecting the right gear for the job.

 

[patgwh]

Food for thought:

When working on his calculations, Rudolf Diesel theorized that higher compression leads to higher efficiency and more power. This happens because when the piston squeezes air with the cylinder, the air becomes concentrated. Diesel fuel has a high energy content, so the likelihood of diesel reacting with the concentrated air is greater. Another way to think of it is when air molecules are packed so close together, fuel has a better chance of reacting with as many oxygen molecules as possible. Rudolf turned out to be right -- a gasoline engine compresses at a ratio of 8:1 to 12:1, while a diesel engine compresses at a ratio of 14:1 to as high as 25:1.

Interpreted: Diesel rocks!!! :rock:

Sourced: http://www.howstuffworks.com/diesel1.htm

 

[patgwh]

Something interesting about diesel tech by BMW...