323 and C200 CGI - My experience

[germ]

Hi guys,As per my initial post in the newbies section, I am currently on the lookout for a new ride and after months of contemplating, have narrowed down the search to either a 323 or C200 CGI . Last weekend, I finally managed to arrange a back to back test drive for both cars. Both dealerships were quite close to each other, so that I could drive similar routes.I believe there have been numerous postings of which car vs which car etc, and for those who are sick and tired of these kinda posts, better skip this post. However, its been more than 48 hrs since these drives and I still can’t get the drive experience outta my mind, so I thought I’d share my experience with other interested forum members (before I forget). Here goes…Exterior - initial thoughts323 : Sleek, aggressive, youthful. C200 (elegance trim): Muscular, angular, understated. SA mentioned that for an extra amount, they can arrange for the grill to be changed to the avantgarde grille (with the oversized and grill mounted star). That does make the car look more aggressive IMO.Dimensions wise, the 3 has a wider wheelbase in front 1989mm vs 1770mm and is slightly lower at 1421mm vs 1447mm, giving it a more aggressive stance. From the back, the C is slightly wider with a wheelbase of 1552mm vs 1535mm. Lengthwise, wheelbase of both cars are similar at 2760mm but from nose to tail, the C is slightly longer at 4581mm vs 4531mm. I say the C looks muscular, due to its more angular/boxy shape and chunkier looking front and rear lamps. Also, another interesting observation was the small air outlets on the rear lamps – supposed to reduce drag and turbulence.Cabin / interior / bootCabin space / legroom wise, the 323 is not as generous, as can be seen from the dimensions above. The C also has a slightly larger boot capacity 475l vs 460l.Cabin of the 3 is minimalistic and clean. Seats are firm and designed to hug the passenger a bit more (non bucket). Doors feel very padded and felt like I was sitting in a cocoon, all cosy and snug. Somehow the word claustrophobic came to mind (a bit extreme, but I dunno, it just came into my head). Gives you the impression that this car can be taken for a spirited sprint, everything is within easy reach. Rear seats are also slightly sculptured to envelope 2 adult passengers comfortably, but I pity the 3rd person who will be sitting in the middle. It is stiff as hell. Also, the rear passengers will have 2 AC vents. Cabin of the C is more spacious. Seats were not as sculptured and not as firm. Side bolsters on seats almost non-existent, hence more comfy and may be able to squeeze another passenger in the rear. But for spirited drives with a lot of corners, be prepared to hold on. Better legroom and the design of the AC vent for rear passengers is better, since it does not protrude out as much as in the 3. There is a transmission tunnel running down the middle (RWD) similar to the 3, but the C has it better designed. A bit more space efficient at the back and the middle passenger will have a more bearable ride. Also, built quality of interior trimmings etc felt a bit more refined. Buttons had a nicer tactile feel, passenger storage compartment (behind the front seats) was a “fold out” leather thingy vs the BMW net, door handles had grooves for your fingers etc. Little things to some, but it did make an impression. Oh, and the doors, upon closing sounded more solid than the 3. Overall ambiance in the merc was “luxurious” vs the 3, which was “sporty”.Seems like a bit more attention to detail was put into the merc, but what I don’t get in the C is the layout of the radio panel. Too many buttons and looks cluttered (too much attention to detail?). Better to control via the steering wheel, since by the time you look at the panel and work out which buttons to press, u could have rear ended someone. And also, not sure why they didn’t put more effort into designing the radio LCD screen, which is hidden under a panel on the dashboard – cost perhaps. Graphics were poor and not sharp. The C250 on the other hand has a motorised LCD screen which pops out and folds back in at a press of a button, and the display looks sharper.The drive and ride The 323 (2.5 litre in line 6 / 190hp @ 5900 rpm / 230nm torque @ 3250 rpm / 6 speed AT ) is one smooth engine and it does sound sweet when pushed. Comes with tiptronic (up/down) and paddle shifters (not really a fan of the layout ie push and pull on either side to up/down shift). I guess forum members are way more familiar with the 3, so no need for further elaboration. What I did not really like was the accelerator pedal ie it felt quite soft as compared to the C, which had a firmer feel. Cabin noise I feel was less in the 3. The C (1.8 litre in line 4 / 184hp @ 5250 rpm / 270nm torque @ 1800-4600 rpm / 5 speed AT) is a light pressure turbo. Impressive for a 1.8 engine, but what about turbo lag? Definitely there is a bit of lag, but not too bad actually. After the torque band, engine felt a bit out of breath, but that is expected. On kickdown, surge of power isn’t too brutal, so no worries of whiplash .There is also a Comfort and Sports mode button in the C. Under sports mode, shifting time is supposed to be better. Main difference is sports mode allows engine to rev much higher. Can hear engine roaring, but not as sweet as the inline 6. Comes with tiptronic (push left / right for downshift/upshift) but no paddle shifters. Both test drive routes allowed me to go through bumps /potholes. On the 3, the firmer suspension (stock standard, unlike those which come with the m-sports setup) allows you to “savour” each undulation even at low speeds but handles like a dream in bends. Not sure how /passengers / parents / kids will enjoy the ride though, as even I felt it was a tad bit on the stiff side. However the SA told me that this could be due to “possible overinflation” of the RFTs..hmmm…ok.On the other hand, the suspension setup of the C, being a comfort oriented car is surprisingly quite well balanced in terms of sportiness and comfort. Took bends quite well, little body roll and quite fun. At decent speeds, it also took bumps/potholes well. The C also has this thing called “Agility Control” which is a selective damping system ie harder/softer settings automatically catered for each wheel and dependent on driving style / road conditions. Sounds neat, but I dread to find out replacement cost for the dampers. SA was very proud of how “well balanced” the C is. Something I cant deny.Other factors to be considered1) Life cycle : Perhaps one of the biggest questions on many minds ie when is the F30 going to be launched, since its at the tail end of its life cycle. Apparently should reach our shores in 2013, but will be CBU, so more expensive and potentially issues. The C on the other hand should be due for replacement in 2014-2015, if the 7 yr life cycle applies2) Road tax : 1.8l vs 2.5l3) Gadgets – Idrive can monitor tyre pressure, view PDC (park distance control), monitor oil level, service intervals etc. Comes with navi as well, but generally not as good as the 3rd party GPS devices out there. The C doesn’t have navi (unless it’s the C250) and has parktronic, which is a parking assistance tool…basically a series of LEDs which light up according to distance to obstacles. The C also has service interval monitors and some other things. Overall the 3 has a much better looking interface via the IDrive. However, I think the 3 also has a bit more electronics (monitoring systems etc) and the downside is electronic issues. I understand it doesn’t even have a dipstick to check engine oil level. The 3 has voice assist unlike the C.4) RFT vs full size spare tyre (both cars are on 225/45/17): From a cost, comfort, noise, availability perspective. Ok, that’s all I can think of for now. …phew…. hope I didn’t put too many people to sleep. Basically, both cars are great, but catered to different kinds of drivers who want different things out of their rides, be it performance, space, gadgets, comfort, looks etc. Unfortunately, this is why making a decision is not easy... Please note that this post is not intended to favour any car, but more of my personal experiences with 2 amazing cars. If any of you have had similar experiences or wish to add on, would be great to hear your views..Thanks. :wink:

 

[Iylia H]

if i were you. i'll wait for the new 3 series or get the merc.... the current 3 series has been around for many years... and once the new 3 series comes out, your car would look outdated though the year of registration for the 3 series says otherwise.

 

[Morganl]

yeap... that would be my recommendation too......

 

[astroboy]

So u looking for a sporty executive sedan or comfort sedan? I specifically picked the E90 because of its near perfect balanced chassis that gives the driver a totally out of this world feel and experience when taking corners and as a matter of fact, the entire car is engineered and designed with this sole purpose. How balance is that car? Imaging dropping a BMW from the sky, all its 4 wheels hit the ground at the same time as compare to 99% of the car in the market, which normally nose dive all the way to the ground. So how other cars cope with this imperfection? They play with their suspension [front hard/rear soft], otherwise they suffer serious understeer due to the heavier front. Understeer car is a safer car to drive but it really take out a lot of fun factor if you know what I mean. Still there's a limit to what suspension can do because absorber weaken over time and feel "lari" over time, which does not happen to a BMW despite all 4 absorber rosak, it will still corner reasonably well.

To achieve its balance chassis objective, the engine mounting location has to push inwards as much as possible [stretched bonnet] which sacrifice front leg room and rear seat room. Front wheel is mounted as front as possible to give the short overhang look, also for the same reason. The entire cabin is pushed to the rear to shift weights to the rear to balance the engine weight.

What I'm trying to say is, you should know what you want and what a BMW can offer u. Looking at the wrong property is really an unfair judgement to the car. Your fault and not the car's fault. We all owners here know exactly what we want. Do you?!

iDrive cannot monitor tyre pressure. What it does is it measure the wheel revolution and compare to the other wheels. When tyre deflate, diameter will shrink and revolution will increase for covering the same distance compare to the other wheels. This will trigger the tyre alarm. There's no TPM [tyre pressure monitoring] system in the car. Its just an innovative way to use the electronic car stability sensor, which measure wheels revolution and intercept when sensing car out of control.

Another thing about Mercedes is I hear you can't switch off the stability system. So bring a Merc to the track is a waste of time as half of the time, engine cut, especially mid way into corner, where the fun begins, driver starts countering and powering, a Merc is a sitting duck waiting to regain a running engine ..

Focus in your "needs"... the "wants" are just bonus that u can do without. How frequent u sit at the rear or have 3 rear passengers? I have an MPV for such occasion.. see! focus!

 

[bmw72]

definitely go for UDM......the best!!!

 

[astroboy]

definitely go for UDM......the best!!!

Most people dunno what they want until they own a BMW, for the wrong reason.. and cursing on what they have missed by not getting a BMW sooner.. it can happen to u! haha!

 

[Mun]

If you're going for the merc, go for the C250 instead. Better spec and power/torque.
And the C has much better consumption!
If getting the 3 get the full monty M-sport. That's the real deal of driving UDM

 

[Maniac]

Not so sure the C200 should have been up against the 323. My take on head to head comparisons:

From a $$ front:
C200 vs 320d M sport
C250 vs 323

drivetrain & specs:
C250 vs 320d

comfort/features:
C250 vs 323

At the end of the day, you have to decide which of these will "drive" your decision...!

 

[MSport]

Very well said Astroboy!

 

[mikeyC]

Test drove 325i, 323i, C250, C200 CGI; undecided for 1 week. Then tested the 320D, book the car the next day even. After 6 months of ownership, still get 'surprises' everyday! 2 weeks ago tested my friend's C200 CGI, felt steering too light and too soft for me. Just my 2 cents

 

[astroboy]

... tested my friend's C200 CGI, felt steering too light and too soft for me..

Some critics says both the Merc steering and suspensions are built for pensioners. The way I look at it is, Merc's philosophy is "luxury". Hard suspension and heavy steering does not go well with the term "luxury". Simple as that.. nothing wrong with the car. Just the wrong car for u..

I tried the W210 Avantgarde before, car drifted due to aquaplaning, I can see it with my eyes, but can't feel it in my hand and spine, how to react? Dumb car!

If you are chauffeur driven, you can complain your chauffeur lack experience in handling the aquaplaning situation, but its actually not the chauffeur's fault..

 

[docrayboy]

Agree with astroboy, when you are almost 75 and ready march into your twilight years and put on your uncle hat and reading glasses, buy a merc. Comfort mah for the old creaking bones and fast enough to rush to the hospital when get that heart attack. For us young-at-heart BMWCM people, its the UDM all the JOYous way!!

 

[viewfinder]

Why BMW marketing department does not wanna come out with a Comfort variant (somewhere in between MBenz and current BMW stock) ? No taker, I don't think. "Dilute" the BMW brand? Don't think so because it clearly says it's BMW Comfort line.

I can definitely relate to Astroboy's comment about absorber rosak and yet still able to corner well. When my yellow shock finally arrived after a long order wait, the old stock absorber had profuse oil leak. But the car handled very well in corner still.

So u looking for a sporty executive sedan or comfort sedan? I specifically picked the E90 because of its near perfect balanced chassis that gives the driver a totally out of this world feel and experience when taking corners and as a matter of fact, the entire car is engineered and designed with this sole purpose. How balance is that car? Imaging dropping a BMW from the sky, all its 4 wheels hit the ground at the same time as compare to 99% of the car in the market, which normally nose dive all the way to the ground. So how other cars cope with this imperfection? They play with their suspension [front hard/rear soft], otherwise they suffer serious understeer due to the heavier front. Understeer car is a safer car to drive but it really take out a lot of fun factor if you know what I mean. Still there's a limit to what suspension can do because absorber weaken over time and feel "lari" over time, which does not happen to a BMW despite all 4 absorber rosak, it will still corner reasonably well. ...

 

[Mun]

Why BMW marketing department does not wanna come out with a Comfort variant (somewhere in between MBenz and current BMW stock) ? No taker, I don't think. "Dilute" the BMW brand? Don't think so because it clearly says it's BMW Comfort line.

I can definitely relate to Astroboy's comment about absorber rosak and yet still able to corner well. When my yellow shock finally arrived after a long order wait, the old stock absorber had profuse oil leak. But the car handled very well in corner still.

U want both Comfort and BMW, buy 7 sili laar.... hehehe

 

[gameover]

I've driven and been driven in the Mercedes C-Class, E-Class and S-Class. While the steering is light, I wouldn't consider the suspension to be particularly comfortable especially for older people. It's firm enough that you do feel the road. I'm now driving the 320d and while people complain the M-sport suspension is uncomfy, I didn't think it was different from the Peugeot 206 I was driving before. Maybe my butt is confused

I personally went through the same experience germ did with my BIL's C200k (W204) and my own 320d and I understand exactly his comments. Made my choice and I've been happy with it.

 

[ahmz]

Actually, the Comfort version of the E90 is the 323.

 

[astroboy]

BMW seats when comes to comfort, cannot lawan Merc la. BMW 3 series seat is thin and communicates well with the car. Merc seats are thick and disconnected to the car, felt like sitting on air, can't feel the car.. actually many complained the 3 series seat not comfy which in its own way, its correct. You want comfy, u sit on the couch at home la..

Front leg room sudah kalah, seat comfy sudah kalah, steering manyak berat also kalah.. buy Merc la, if that's what u want..

 

[viewfinder]

Astroboy, but won't it be nice if BMW can win some converts or fence-sitters over to the BMW brand, if they simply do the thing that this group of border-line buyers are looking for: BMW Comfort line 3 series (or maybe 1/3/5). Disclaimer, not for me.

I read somewhere that BMW needs to be able to sell more cars (increase total volume) in order to offset their slightly lower margin (vs MBenz). This maybe a quick & easy avenue. Slightly less stiff shocks, a bit more cushy seats. After all, they apparently do use different absorbers for different country. For a different reason though, poor road condition. I was told Malaysia E90's gets the "poor road condition" category shocks.

 

[astroboy]

No wonder my E90 320 is so "cushy".. haha.. in fact the other advantage of cushy suspension is the lower arm mounts and bushings suffer less beatings and last a lot longer, that's also why BMW has reliability issue on certain parts. Of course with cushier ride, handling compromised big time.

BMW has avoided building V6 for the same reason, why V6 when you want to distribute engine weight to the back of the car? V6 is meant for cars that want to maximise cabin space so dash area can push into the engine bay to gain room.

No point building airplanes without wings just because the fence sitters prefer the no wings version.. Or making a knife that has a blunt blade just because the fence sitters worry getting cut.. or making matches that can't light up, guns that can't shoot, chili that's not spicy, ..boy~! I can go on.. haha!

 

[zhul]

Why BMW marketing department does not wanna come out with a Comfort variant (somewhere in between MBenz and current BMW stock) ? No taker, I don't think. "Dilute" the BMW brand? Don't think so because it clearly says it's BMW Comfort line.

I can definitely relate to Astroboy's comment about absorber rosak and yet still able to corner well. When my yellow shock finally arrived after a long order wait, the old stock absorber had profuse oil leak. But the car handled very well in corner still.

I think Audi has already taken this market. Their cars are for those who choose the middle path between Merc and BMW.