Handling 101: Reduce Body Roll - ARB or shocks first?

[wingzee]

After the recent Ulu Yam-Genting Highlands and Durian Raub drive, has came to realize my ride's body roll is too much. I love the comfort of my ride but am looking at ways to improve the handling/reduce body roll during corners and yet maintaining the comfort level.Given a tight budget (with Dynavin in the pipeline as my CD changer no longer reading discs!), am only allowed to choose between the shocks (Bilstein B6 + M-Sport/Eibach Pro-Kit) or ARB (Ultra-Racing or H&R) to upgrade first.Which would be best bang for the buck upgrade? Am leaning towards the ARB (haven't decided on Ultra Racing or H&R but was told UR is just as good albeit being steel instead of aluminium) at the moment but would like to get more views and opinions on this.

 

[BenedictC]

Hope I don't sound silly, but would autofoam help by making the chasis more rigid, coupled with strut bars?

http://autofoam.net/autofoam/

 

[Mavik]

Personally I would go for the ARB's first. Thats my plan, ARB first, then followed by suspension. If I am going for suspensions, looking at KW V2 or if $$$ falls out of the sky, KW V3

 

[t2ribena]

as the name implies, anti-roll bars.....so start with the ARB...cheap and most effective mod to reduce roll...

 

[anaksarawak]

I vote for ARB, dynavin can wait

 

[Herbert]

Wingzee,

All has given you their recommendations for go for ARB first and I must add it will be your best investment. However go for H&R instead of UR. Whoever told you that UR is as good as H&R is absolutely wrong.

 

[wingzee]

Thanks for the sharing all your views on these guys. Just reaffirm my decision to go for the ARBs then. Lovin' the comfort of my shocks

@Mavik:
Your 320d is on M-Sports shocks already ma. Why need KW? Haha.

@Herbert:
UR costs about RM1.4k while H&R is about RM2k. Was told the only difference is in the material (steel vs aluminum) used. Have not checked them out myself yet though.

Did some reading on H&R and was told settings can be adjusted (not sure about the UR). Which settings should I go for a start? Medium for both front & rear?

 

[kojak818]

ARB bro.... H&R....

 

[tIANcI]

This is something many of you seem to miss out on. Wingzee's car is an e46. How old are his shocks? What conditions are his shocks in? In the event that his shocks are over 5 years old, then you know it's far from being in good condition. In the event that springs have sagged and shocks softened, why bother with ARBs? Get new shocks first.

As for UR or H&R ... One cannot say that the UR ones are lousy unless you really have done an extensive A&B test. What is important is that the ARBs do their job and they do it with the right bias too. If not it will upset your car's handling.

Does UR have the right bias? We know H&R does as so many have used them. You need to find out from those who used UR. Also, we cannot say the UR quality is lousy because we really have no idea what they use for their ARBs. Remember, it's about torsional rigidity. I have used UR in other cars and they do their job well. I did not for my e90 because I have not heard of feedback of UR ARBs on an e90 ...

What set up? Well H&R arb can adjust the stiffness by choosing which mounting point. Google a pic of the ARB and you will understand. The stiffness will also affect handling. Let's assume you select a medium set up (note that not all arbs have 3 settings), then if you stiffen the back, you will get more oversteer, same thing happens if you soften the front.

It's not just about body roll with ARBs, it's also affects oversteer or understeer.

 

[wingzee]

This is something many of you seem to miss out on. Wingzee's car is an e46. How old are his shocks? What conditions are his shocks in? In the event that his shocks are over 5 years old, then you know it's far from being in good condition. In the event that springs have sagged and shocks softened, why bother with ARBs? Get new shocks first.

As for UR or H&R ... One cannot say that the UR ones are lousy unless you really have done an extensive A&B test. What is important is that the ARBs do their job and they do it with the right bias too. If not it will upset your car's handling.

Does UR have the right bias? We know H&R does as so many have used them. You need to find out from those who used UR. Also, we cannot say the UR quality is lousy because we really have no idea what they use for their ARBs. Remember, it's about torsional rigidity. I have used UR in other cars and they do their job well. I did not for my e90 because I have not heard of feedback of UR ARBs on an e90 ...

What set up? Well H&R arb can adjust the stiffness by choosing which mounting point. Google a pic of the ARB and you will understand. The stiffness will also affect handling. Let's assume you select a medium set up (note that not all arbs have 3 settings), then if you stiffen the back, you will get more oversteer, same thing happens if you soften the front.

It's not just about body roll with ARBs, it's also affects oversteer or understeer.

Very well said bro. My front Boge shocks are 2 years old while rears are still the original BMW shocks. Not sure if previous owner replaced before but it still have not leaked despite the age.

Plans to replace the shocks is already in the pipeline though.

Have experienced UR in other rides as well (all Japanese) and yes they are good, hence that's the reason I asked in the first place.

Have since googled on H&R settings and apparently only 2 settings for front but 3 settings for the rear.

 

[nitedevil]

This is something many of you seem to miss out on. Wingzee's car is an e46. How old are his shocks? What conditions are his shocks in? In the event that his shocks are over 5 years old, then you know it's far from being in good condition. In the event that springs have sagged and shocks softened, why bother with ARBs? Get new shocks first.

As for UR or H&R ... One cannot say that the UR ones are lousy unless you really have done an extensive A&B test. What is important is that the ARBs do their job and they do it with the right bias too. If not it will upset your car's handling.

Does UR have the right bias? We know H&R does as so many have used them. You need to find out from those who used UR. Also, we cannot say the UR quality is lousy because we really have no idea what they use for their ARBs. Remember, it's about torsional rigidity. I have used UR in other cars and they do their job well. I did not for my e90 because I have not heard of feedback of UR ARBs on an e90 ...

What set up? Well H&R arb can adjust the stiffness by choosing which mounting point. Google a pic of the ARB and you will understand. The stiffness will also affect handling. Let's assume you select a medium set up (note that not all arbs have 3 settings), then if you stiffen the back, you will get more oversteer, same thing happens if you soften the front.

It's not just about body roll with ARBs, it's also affects oversteer or understeer.

Well said master of CRaZy...

 

[pussy]

I tell you how to set it. buy me teh ais buih first...


ok, the setting depends on the type of mods on your car, 6 or 4 pots make some difference. then comes the cc capacity which is crucial of putting the rear end down during launch control. then comes the tyre size n type of rims. remember there is 18 types of settings for the H&R. I have used both H&R n AC along with I.E. competition ARB's and the correct setting is if you on 330i is front outer and rear center for a neutral corner. for much oversteer fun, keep the front outer n rear most inner.

 

[pussy]

remember, the bars are mostly 1 to 2 mm larger, hence 1mm means 12% i think more stiffer than normal standard ones. this to control the weight and larger swing forces. for cheap upgrade, look for convertible sway bars, they are larger than 1mm than the standard ones, even same cc model.

 

[tIANcI]

Pussy ... What has 4 pot or 6 pot and CC got to do with ARB la? It's does not matter. Also, not all aftermarket ARBs are a mere 1-2 mm thicker than stock. Most may be a mere 1-2mm thicker for the front but between 5-8 mm for the rear. Also torsional rigidity is calculated by the power of 4. Can't just say 1mm more is 12% stiffer.

 

[astroboy]

Don't forget to upgrade the ARB mount/bracket/holder because they are known for failure. This is the reason why I'm keeping mine stock.

Also.. how stiff is too stiff? If your ARB is too stiff, you suffer from these..

It greatly depends on the cc or the weight of the car, it determines the stiffness of the ARB because if heavier car, the ARB has more work to do to fight off the rolling chassis in the corners. Have you seen those old minibus ARB size?

If your dowan to invest into a stiffer ARB, lighten your car, same result.. meaning a 4 potter has better roll resistance than a 6 potter if same ARB is used.. that's why mine is a 4 potter.. :4:

 

[aidilj]

Bro Wingzee, thanks for posting this. Just changed my shocks and after reading the comments made me read more on sway bar and understood how it can help handling.

Seems that H&R being adjustable could be a plus where you could play around with the settings in the future.

Could it also be that the stock sway bar causes the car to lean on one side?

 

[aidilj]

Data mining for rear sway bar size - E46

318i = 15mm http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=33551094544&showus=on&showeur=on
325i, 330i = 18mm http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=33551095758&showus=on&showeur=on
Msport 325i,330i = 19mm http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=33551094545&showus=on&showeur=on
M3 = 21.5mm http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=33_1080&hg=33&fg=45

H&R
non M3 = 21mm
M3 = 25mm

UR
non M3 = 21mm http://www.ultraracing.my/catalog/index.php?id_product=654&controller=product
M3 = 23mm http://www.ultraracing.my/catalog/index.php?id_product=722&controller=product

 

[tIANcI]

aidjil ... How come H&R only one size for non M3? I thought must be different for 4 potter and 6 potter? Interesting ya?

 

[fabianyee]

For me, ARB is the best investment for my humble 22 year old 318i. Paid RM2,000 for my Ireland Engineering ARB some 8 years back complete with reinforced brackets for the front and rear and pillowball joints. No looking back since. The car's handling after the antiroll bar is many times better than before. They say E30 is tail happy, not anymore after the ARB upgrade. It doesn't affect the ride quality significantly as it only come into play when the car starts to lean on 1 side at the corners.

This is what I bought :http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/E30-suspension-steering/e30sbs.html

 

[ICEMAN 68]

yeh i'm running on the Racing Dynamic ones on my e36 ...all i could say is it's AWSOME ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&gl=SG&v=NTL7JIJJq14