Comparisob Between E36 & E46

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@May 3 2005, 04:53 AM
The E46 is grown up from the E36 just like how the E36 grew up from the E30. Ride and handling give different charastics, and with each generation the car behaves less and less like a go-kart, but offers more supple, refined and "cultured" ride and handling. Its the same with all cars even with the Type R Vtecs (e.g. DC2 vs DC5 and EK9 vs EP3) and WRXs. As they grow up the feel less and less "raw" and "basic" and more refined. I think BMW came out with the 1 series, to bring some of that go-kart, harsh, direct feel back into their cars.

At least the E90 is lighter than the E46, but the car has grown and I suspect ride comfort improved too?

To be honest, if I really wanted a raw and harsh go karty ride, I'd pick up a Lotus Elise or even get an older Civic Type R for the fun of it. The newer 3's are inbetween driving excitement and luxury, and is a balanced compromise between the 2. So far the 3 series balance for me at my current age is about right. The 5 is a bit too much into the luxury territory for me now. Maybe in a few years time I'd see things differently

i guess its true what you have mentioned. when time goes by, the technology in car changes as well. driver becomes lesser and lesser in control because it is all done by the gadjets.

like the dodge viper. even until now, the latest model does not have any technology to assist the driver which leads to a full control to the driver and it becomes a toy. was watching the bbc channel on ultimate drving where comparison is done every week. the viper was just burning rubbers and was flying everywhere compared to other machine where it was more in control but the feeling is totally different.

age plays a big role as well. i was driving a putra before and sneaking through everywhere the car manage to but now, i am more interested in a different driving feeling. well, when time comes, i may get a EG9 or a EK9 to make it as a toy car.

well your 5's decision will be soon on the way when age changes... all the best mate... so i see a M5 is on the way...

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Originally posted by Juan Powerblow+May 3 2005, 06:24 AM-->QUOTE (Juan Powerblow @ May 3 2005, 06:24 AM)

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@May 3 2005, 04:53 AM

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Originally posted by AnGeLiCdEmOn108+May 3 2005, 06:49 AM-->QUOTE (AnGeLiCdEmOn108 @ May 3 2005, 06:49 AM)

Originally posted by Juan Powerblow@May 3 2005, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@May 3 2005, 04:53 AM

 

[ersalle]

Stock Camry rides like a boat when driving in the twisties

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Originally posted by ersalle@May 3 2005, 07:26 AM
Stock Camry rides like a boat when driving in the twisties

tell me about camry... one of my directors car is a camry. one day he tumpang me and he was rusking to pick his wife up. the driver was forced to tekan and man the car was floating and when it hit a curve, make sure the person sitting at the back has the same weight else melayang and can reach selayang...

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

another incident was with my other director who has a porsche cayenne. man the 4x drive is owesome. he took a sharp corner once at 160 and it felt like a car...

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

aiya, forgot another reason experience. my brother was sending me to klia yesterday in his 940 and we were doing around 170 and boom from no where this e60 black 530 just over took and sapu the exit to klia from elite with just one tap on the breaks... thats was beautiful.

after that we were just talking and crusing at 160 and this s80 type r i think, just flew and within seconds that fellow hilang already. easily doing 200 plus i think...

just can't wait to get my own wheels again... :aggressive:

 

[ersalle]

Talking about E60 530i, met one towkey driving along 2nd link from singapore into Johore. Man he was travelling as if he got too much money to pay for fines. The minute he paid the toll, he blasted all the way to 200km/h :lol:

 

[wglee]

I own a pre-facelift E46 325i(A). My experience with the E36 328i is limited to AB's courtesy car (a black late E36 328i, and a yellow early E36 328i) which was lent to me every now and then when my car was in the workshop.

Although the on-paper specs do not reflect it, the E46 325i felt perkier than the E36 328i. This was probably due to the drive-by-wire system in the E46 325i.

The other significant difference between the two is that the E46 325i has a 5 speed automatic gearbox which can be shifted manually, sequentially (a.k.a. Steptronic) whereas the Malaysian spec E36 328i only has a wide ratio 4 speed General Motors automatic gearbox which has no Steptronic and hence does not possess the additional degree of control that the semi-manual nature of Steptronic provides to the driver. This is apparent during aggresive drives in the twisties.

I also noticed that the E46 325i's fuel consumption is better than the E36 328i.

Fit and finish in the E36 is also not as good as the E46. The E46 325i also has more standard equipment than an E36 328i (especially when compared to the facelifted E46 325i which has electric seats and DSC even in stock standard form).

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Originally posted by wglee@May 4 2005, 06:17 AM
I own a pre-facelift E46 325i(A). My experience with the E36 328i is limited to AB's courtesy car (a black late E36 328i, and a yellow early E36 328i) which was lent to me every now and then when my car was in the workshop.

Although the on-paper specs do not reflect it, the E46 325i felt perkier than the E36 328i. This was probably due to the drive-by-wire system in the E46 325i.

The other significant difference between the two is that the E46 325i has a 5 speed automatic gearbox which can be shifted manually, sequentially (a.k.a. Steptronic) whereas the Malaysian spec E36 328i only has a wide ratio 4 speed General Motors automatic gearbox which has no Steptronic and hence does not possess the additional degree of control that the semi-manual nature of Steptronic provides to the driver. This is apparent during aggresive drives in the twisties.

I also noticed that the E46 325i's fuel consumption is better than the E36 328i.

Fit and finish in the E36 is also not as good as the E46. The E46 325i also has more standard equipment than an E36 328i (especially when compared to the facelifted E46 325i which has electric seats and DSC even in stock standard form).

I got the same experience as wglee cos was driving the courtesy black E36 328i for a week while my E46 325i was being repaired. I can confirm most of his findings too but remembered the E36 328i having massive torque from 3,000 rpm onwards. It felt like a stronger engine but the E46 325i benefits from electronic throttle and double vanos to give the impression it can keep up. Yet again, Eldrow's scalping of a few E46 325i during track day tends to prove that E36 328i could be slightly faster even with 4-speeder auto.

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Originally posted by Juan Powerblow+May 4 2005, 06:27 AM-->QUOTE (Juan Powerblow @ May 4 2005, 06:27 AM)

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

was going through the thread and found a thread that specified the looseness of the steering for e46 on high speed... it also mentioned that this issue can be solved by tightening the stering rack...

is this really advisable to do?

is it done by ah chong & mutu or by AB itself...

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Originally posted by AnGeLiCdEmOn108+May 4 2005, 06:34 AM-->QUOTE (AnGeLiCdEmOn108 @ May 4 2005, 06:34 AM)

Originally posted by Juan Powerblow@May 4 2005, 06:27 AM

 

[ALBundy]

Double Vanos equipped cars have more usable low end torque and hence your butt tells you "its faster". If I am not mistaken, the max torque occurs at 3500 rpm compared with single vanos (4000rpm) and non-vanos (4500rpm). But if you doing some spirited runs on the speedway aka Kesas or Elite, the 328 single vanos will tame the 325 double vanos easily. On city driving, the e46 325i may "feel" more responsive but not necessarily faster.

Rgds

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Originally posted by ALBundy@May 4 2005, 06:40 AM
Double Vanos equipped cars have more usable low end torque and hence your butt tells you "its faster". If I am not mistaken, the max torque occurs at 3500 rpm compared with single vanos (4000rpm) and non-vanos (4500rpm). But if you doing some spirited runs on the speedway aka Kesas or Elite, the 328 single vanos will tame the 325 double vanos easily. On city driving, the e46 325i may "feel" more responsive but not necessarily faster.

Rgds

Of course lah. 280 Nm or 188 lbft of torque compared to 240 Nm of 144 lbft. That's a huge difference but century sprint difference of only 0.2 secs is substantially made up by double vanos, drive-by-wire throttle and perhaps, additional gear ratio. But in the real world, it's still 2 car length difference in favor of E36 328i. Yet again... Eldrow is 30 kg lighter than me worrr.... Must get Fabian to sprint with him in my car, heh!

 

[E46Fanatic]

Actually I find the drive by wire throttle on the E46 325i a bit "sleepy" on normal city driving. Needs a few quick dabs on the throttle to "wake up" the car and get the tranny to bite and engine response up. Thats the down side of adaptive electronic programs. I just wish the car was "awake" ALL the time :wink:

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@May 4 2005, 08:09 AM
Actually I find the drive by wire throttle on the E46 325i a bit "sleepy" on normal city driving. Needs a few quick dabs on the throttle to "wake up" the car and get the tranny to bite and engine response up. Thats the down side of adaptive electronic programs. I just wish the car was "awake" ALL the time :wink:

does this mean that the e46 has a slower kick down responce?

what system is the e36 using?

 

[E46Fanatic]

Originally posted by AnGeLiCdEmOn108@May 4 2005, 03:29 AM

does this mean that the e46 has a slower kick down responce?

It depends on your daily driving style. If you are always in a rush, the car remembers your pattern and the response is very good. Shift RPMs stay higher, throttle response is sharper and kickdown is easier. If you are a lazy driver who prides himself in getting low fuel consumption numbers showing on the OBC like me, it will take a few quick dabs on the gas to wake her up.

 

[wglee]

Originally posted by Juan Powerblow+May 4 2005, 02:50 PM-->QUOTE (Juan Powerblow @ May 4 2005, 02:50 PM)

 

[AnGeLiCdEmOn108]

E36

BMW 323i available in saloon and coupe
Engine Size 2494 cc, in-line
Cylinders 6
Valves 24, VANOS
Max power output 170hp/5500rpm
Max torque 181ib ft/3950rpm
Top speed 227km/h (224 for automatic transmission)
0-100km/h 8.0s (9.0 for automatic transmission)

BMW 328i available in saloon, coupe, cabriolet and touring
Engine Size 2793 cc, in-line
Cylinders 6
Valves 24, VANOS
Max power output 193hp/5300rpm
Max torque 206ib ft/3950rpm
Top speed (saloon, coupe) 236km/h (232 for automatic transmission)
Top speed (cabriolet) 230km/h (227 for automatic transmission)
0-100km/h (saloon, coupe) 7.3s (7.8 for automatic transmission)
0-100km/h (cabriolet) 7.7s (8.4 for automatic transmission)

E46

BMW 323i
Engine Size 2494 cc, in-line
Cylinders 6
Valves 24, VANOS
Max power output 170hp @ 5500 rpm
Max torque 245Nm @ 3500 rpm
Top speed 231km/h (228 for automatic transmission)
0-100km/h 8s (9 for automatic transmission)

BMW 328i
Engine Size 2793 cc, in-line
Cylinders 6
Valves 24, VANOS
Max power output 193hp @ 5500 rpm
Max torque 280Nm @ 3500 rpm
Top speed 240km/h (235 for automatic transmission)
0-100km/h 7s (8.1 for automatic transmission)