today was the first time i tested the 320i and 325i .guys this car is love at first drive for me. i am very familler wit the new c class . u just cant compare . c class is dull to drive the steering feedback and brake feel is rubbish after testing e90 it is clearly light years ahead of it competion.325 feels as big as e39 model. space is good. build quality again better then c class. and 320i good pace for its cc .325i is the gem. 218hp and that refined six cylinder engine . no rivals compares . my two cents
CKD E90 differences
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David Yong
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Yup..... C class is no where comparable to 325i....
Schwepps
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Thanks for reviving this thread guys, and thanks for your opinions KL2DC. "Here in the US" are you in the US? How come you know so much about the situation here?
Re the W204, the global launch is 2007. M-B makes some pretty sexy cars these days and C&C's service has improved by a lot. Their Mutiara Damansara service centre is a great place to go to. They really treat you well.
Back to the E90, no doubt it's my aspirational car now after 9 years with other marques, including M-B. I like the E90. It's just that AB's approach has been rather iffy. One blotch up after another. First they flood the market with E46s, almost commoditizing the 3 series in the last 2 model years, and badly affecting the resale value now. Then they launch the E90 CBU with high pricing and low spec. Now they launch the CKD with still high pricing and still low spec.
What are they doing? It all just doesn't feel right, just like the wheel style and width of the CKDs (to differentiate the CKDs from the CBUs I'm sure) just don't look right. It's like they're saying to the market that the 3 is an icon and we should accept whatever they dish out. It's very disappointing marketing.
BTW, Bimmer27, an E90 325i for RM268 is a good buy if you're going to keep it for a few years. Sure they'll do the paint and detail the car throughly. But more important to check other vital things like whether the rubber will be changed. And find out where it was made. The 320s are made in South Africa, so buyers are paying CBU prices for cars made in a less developed country than Malaysia!
Re the W204, the global launch is 2007. M-B makes some pretty sexy cars these days and C&C's service has improved by a lot. Their Mutiara Damansara service centre is a great place to go to. They really treat you well.
Back to the E90, no doubt it's my aspirational car now after 9 years with other marques, including M-B. I like the E90. It's just that AB's approach has been rather iffy. One blotch up after another. First they flood the market with E46s, almost commoditizing the 3 series in the last 2 model years, and badly affecting the resale value now. Then they launch the E90 CBU with high pricing and low spec. Now they launch the CKD with still high pricing and still low spec.
What are they doing? It all just doesn't feel right, just like the wheel style and width of the CKDs (to differentiate the CKDs from the CBUs I'm sure) just don't look right. It's like they're saying to the market that the 3 is an icon and we should accept whatever they dish out. It's very disappointing marketing.
BTW, Bimmer27, an E90 325i for RM268 is a good buy if you're going to keep it for a few years. Sure they'll do the paint and detail the car throughly. But more important to check other vital things like whether the rubber will be changed. And find out where it was made. The 320s are made in South Africa, so buyers are paying CBU prices for cars made in a less developed country than Malaysia!
David Yong
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Schwepps, so what's your choice finally ?
KL2DC
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Schwepps: I just wanted to chime in...the Rosslyn facility in South Africa is a frequent annual winner of BMW AG's internal quality audit survey (for lasts 7 years, I think). As the facility is slight less automated, some production process (like interior fittings) are relegated by hand/manual labor. As a result, there is a noted higher attention to detail. Just about all of east-bound RHD (incl Japan market) e90s come from Rosslyn especially 4cyl model. Also, you might like to know that most 4cyl engine is assembled in the UK and 6 cylinder engine, in Austria.
You might also be surprised to know that BMW AG's original Munich plant scores slighty lower than Regensburg and Liepzig (newest and most technlogically advanced). The reason is that many of BMW's line workers/technician apprentices at Munich then graduates to other plants. Of course, when I say lower, I mean in relation to the other BMW plants and based on BMW's internal criteria. To the consumer, BMW's high standards are maintained.
Actually, when I ordered my e90, I tried to specify ex-Rosslyn but my CA didn't have much control over the process. A small % of US bound cars are ex-Rosslyn (majority from Munich and Regensburg). All e90 330is and xi models come from Munich as well as all e91s. BMW coupes (and M3s) have traditionally been built in Regensburg, including the new e92. E60s and E66/66s hail from Dingolfing. All X5s and Z4s come from Spartanburg, South Carolina. Also, X3 production are contracted to 3rd party in Austria.
It has been said that the Rosslyn cars enjoy higher reliability and flawless quality at delivery.
P.s. I did a lot of research and reading when I was waiting for my car
Helped keep me sane LOL
You might also be surprised to know that BMW AG's original Munich plant scores slighty lower than Regensburg and Liepzig (newest and most technlogically advanced). The reason is that many of BMW's line workers/technician apprentices at Munich then graduates to other plants. Of course, when I say lower, I mean in relation to the other BMW plants and based on BMW's internal criteria. To the consumer, BMW's high standards are maintained.
Actually, when I ordered my e90, I tried to specify ex-Rosslyn but my CA didn't have much control over the process. A small % of US bound cars are ex-Rosslyn (majority from Munich and Regensburg). All e90 330is and xi models come from Munich as well as all e91s. BMW coupes (and M3s) have traditionally been built in Regensburg, including the new e92. E60s and E66/66s hail from Dingolfing. All X5s and Z4s come from Spartanburg, South Carolina. Also, X3 production are contracted to 3rd party in Austria.
It has been said that the Rosslyn cars enjoy higher reliability and flawless quality at delivery.
P.s. I did a lot of research and reading when I was waiting for my car
Helped keep me sane LOL
KL2DC
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Actually, I think the CKD models are quite high spec. On the 325i I see dakota leather, HiFi system, xenons, 159s, 6sp Step...about the only thing I see missing is the useless moonroof. In contrast, the 325 in the US does not come with leather, step and xenons (adaptives) which are optional items, and the only wheel choice we have (outside of the ZSP package which gets 17" 161s) are the girlie 16" 156s that I am riding on...for the time being. We don't even get chrome window trim and grilles on our 325is. Granted we pay way less...but still
The 159's star spokes on the CKD 325i are standard fitment on the 330i. Imho they look great and prefer them over the 161s
I do agree, retrofitting the factory sport suspension on the CKD would be a major improvement in looks. CKD spec cars always look raised to cope with our road conditions.
The 159's star spokes on the CKD 325i are standard fitment on the 330i. Imho they look great and prefer them over the 161s
I do agree, retrofitting the factory sport suspension on the CKD would be a major improvement in looks. CKD spec cars always look raised to cope with our road conditions.
KL2DC
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Also agree, the W203 is not a fair comparison to the e90. The W203 is due for a replacement soon (introduced 1999-2000). In the US, MB has kept the car alive by dropping in a 2.5 V6 and adding the 7G. AMG body kit is also standard here but best of all, they are discounting the cars quite agressively. As mentioned, I had this car on my short list and at $31k on-the-road, it sounded great for a while...but I thought the engine was still weak and the car didn't feel as good as the e90. I hear the W204 will be a more dynamic car...but concerns of initial quality and reliability is not confidence-inspiring. I have lost respect for MB...
Schwepps
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The E90 beats the W203 by far, no comparison. That generation of MBs is over the hill by today's standards, but the latest cars are quite good. My wife has a 2004 W211 and it's a pretty good drive. The W204 promises to be a sportier car c/w power-humped bonnet and a completely new engine. The lights design will apparently be a hybrid of the S-class and CLS look.
Having said all that, I'm a bit tired of MBs and the E90 is the long awaited one for me I'm just frustrated with the AB approach in Malaysia though. For RM288k the 325i package is just not commensurate. You can't compare with the US spec because the car is much cheaper there. Eg, the dainty 159 wheels and non-sports suspension are fine for the reasonably-priced 'family' 320i, but why put them on the 325i which is the enthusiast's car?
My choice David? Sigh....I just don't know. This would be an elective buy for me and elective buys must satisfy your every fibre. The present 325i package available here, both CKD and CBU just don't feel 100% right. There's no wow factor for me and buying a BMW should always be a wow event as opposed to buying an MB or Audi, etc. If not for that lack of 100% feeling, I would be waiting for delivery of a 325i right now
Thanks very much KL2DC, for the education in the various build locations! You've comfirmed that the E90 CBUs in Malaysia are built in South Africa. A lot of people here think that CBU means that the car is built in the home plant whereas this is almost never the case anymore with globalization, except for very small marques.
It's only in Malaysia that you have this "CBU is superior to CKD" mentality. I'm sure Rosslyn is very good, but I maintain that Malaysia's car assembly is right up there. Sorry but internal quality audits don't do anything for me. They only mean all the documented processes are complied with by the plant. And I prefer higher production automation, not lower. It only means lots of cheap labour is employed. No disrespect meant, but SAfrica is where Malaysia was 20 years ago.
Interesting that you know so much about BMs KL2DC, even wiring issues, and are based in the US. You're not connected in some way to BMW are you?
Having said all that, I'm a bit tired of MBs and the E90 is the long awaited one for me
I'm just frustrated with the AB approach in Malaysia though. For RM288k the 325i package is just not commensurate. You can't compare with the US spec because the car is much cheaper there. Eg, the dainty 159 wheels and non-sports suspension are fine for the reasonably-priced 'family' 320i, but why put them on the 325i which is the enthusiast's car?My choice David? Sigh....I just don't know. This would be an elective buy for me and elective buys must satisfy your every fibre. The present 325i package available here, both CKD and CBU just don't feel 100% right. There's no wow factor for me and buying a BMW should always be a wow event as opposed to buying an MB or Audi, etc. If not for that lack of 100% feeling, I would be waiting for delivery of a 325i right now
Thanks very much KL2DC, for the education in the various build locations! You've comfirmed that the E90 CBUs in Malaysia are built in South Africa. A lot of people here think that CBU means that the car is built in the home plant whereas this is almost never the case anymore with globalization, except for very small marques.
It's only in Malaysia that you have this "CBU is superior to CKD" mentality. I'm sure Rosslyn is very good, but I maintain that Malaysia's car assembly is right up there. Sorry but internal quality audits don't do anything for me. They only mean all the documented processes are complied with by the plant. And I prefer higher production automation, not lower. It only means lots of cheap labour is employed. No disrespect meant, but SAfrica is where Malaysia was 20 years ago.
Interesting that you know so much about BMs KL2DC, even wiring issues, and are based in the US. You're not connected in some way to BMW are you?
well, i have a CBU 330i e46 (made in Munich) and a CKD 318 2ltr e46 (assembled here). i can safely say that the build and quality of CBU are so much better. Everyone knows that e46 constitutes probably 60-70% of all BMW cars on Msian roads and the bulk of the e46 are CKDs. Many e46 owners here complain about their rides - could it be because of the substandard build and quality of CKDs here??. i just think that potential buyers of CKD models should not expect 100%...kindda of remind me of a famous nasi kandar chain which started in penang and has sinced expanded to other states including KL. they claim that the recipe is exactly the same, the way they prepare them is no different...but i can assure you that the food in KL does not taste as nice vs their "home" shop in penang.
KL2DC
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Schwepps...appreciate and enjoyed your counterpoints.
I hear what your are saying about AB's approach to the e90 325 offering. Basically, you'd want a little more differentiation in equipment over the 4cyl 320i SE. Maybe you're right...I can see AB packaging their top dog 325i with the sports package (suspension, rims, steering wheel and seats) for a little more edge in the marketplace.
But I think its a little more complicated than that. As is the mission of the e90 (as BMW's true bread and butter model), the car was made to appeal to the general hoi polloi (with wode range of tastes, preferences and vehicular requirements) which unfortunately (in this case) means taking the compromised (or balanced) middle road. I think that is what dictated the equipment mix on the CKD e90.
Although if sales figures support it and if a group of enthusiasts lobby for it, AB could just very easily offer a dedicated Sport model as they did with the e60 525i Sport. I envision such model to have the abovementioned sport package bits plus perhaps the tasty m-tech bodykit *drool* Now that would be very awesome.
I hear what your are saying about AB's approach to the e90 325 offering. Basically, you'd want a little more differentiation in equipment over the 4cyl 320i SE. Maybe you're right...I can see AB packaging their top dog 325i with the sports package (suspension, rims, steering wheel and seats) for a little more edge in the marketplace.
But I think its a little more complicated than that. As is the mission of the e90 (as BMW's true bread and butter model), the car was made to appeal to the general hoi polloi (with wode range of tastes, preferences and vehicular requirements) which unfortunately (in this case) means taking the compromised (or balanced) middle road. I think that is what dictated the equipment mix on the CKD e90.
Although if sales figures support it and if a group of enthusiasts lobby for it, AB could just very easily offer a dedicated Sport model as they did with the e60 525i Sport. I envision such model to have the abovementioned sport package bits plus perhaps the tasty m-tech bodykit *drool* Now that would be very awesome.
Schwepps
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Your comments are spot on KL2DC! I think the 320 should be positioned to appeal to the general hoi polloi, but the 325 should be positioned for the enthusiasts. I know that the 325 is considered merely a base model in Europe and the US, but in Malaysia, the tax and other structures do not favour the 330 as the enthusiast's model.
This is what I mean by more intelligent marketing. AB should think more and ask their market more, and not just go by the reputation of the 3. The marketing of the 3 has not been good from the last 2 years of the E46 till now, and the evidence is ample in the lack of trade-ups to the E90. I only manage to spot one on the road every few days! How many threads in this forum are E90?
If they're not careful, they'll miss the window to capture share before the W204 is launched. C&C were also getting complacent until they were seriously threatened by BMW. Now they've spruced up their act and I tell you they're really good now. They're already openly telling existing customers about the W204. They're not going to flog the W203 to death like BMW did with the E46 and create a trade-in value problem.
BMW has a new S&M manager here now from the homeland and I hope he's more astute. I also hope he's reading this forum/thread (as he should) I'm tired of MBs and have gotten MB ownership out of my blood. I want a 325i for my fun car, but I'm just not pushed to get one with the current packages AB is putting out. So disappointing :-(
This is what I mean by more intelligent marketing. AB should think more and ask their market more, and not just go by the reputation of the 3. The marketing of the 3 has not been good from the last 2 years of the E46 till now, and the evidence is ample in the lack of trade-ups to the E90. I only manage to spot one on the road every few days! How many threads in this forum are E90?
If they're not careful, they'll miss the window to capture share before the W204 is launched. C&C were also getting complacent until they were seriously threatened by BMW. Now they've spruced up their act and I tell you they're really good now. They're already openly telling existing customers about the W204. They're not going to flog the W203 to death like BMW did with the E46 and create a trade-in value problem.
BMW has a new S&M manager here now from the homeland and I hope he's more astute. I also hope he's reading this forum/thread (as he should) I'm tired of MBs and have gotten MB ownership out of my blood. I want a 325i for my fun car, but I'm just not pushed to get one with the current packages AB is putting out. So disappointing :-(
Schwepps
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KL2DC said:LOL yeah I am employed by BMW to convince online posters, one prospective buyer at a time...
I am just a fan and enthusiast, just like everyone else here....no different
Sure
And your knowledge is very helpful to people like me.Actually E90 already available in M-spec model..it just tht for the market in Malaysia, this model been deleted....very simple..as a dealer or distributor if you can commit a volume from the manufacturer, you can insist your own spec(normally lower spec or very basic spec as possible, for cost cutting) and sell it to end user at normall price...buy low, sell high = more profit...They thought the BMW fans here are gullible & easy to kid around...If you want to see E90 with M-spec..Singapore got it..& the best looking M-Spec E90 definetely will be in white color..
Schwepps
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Yeah, but BMW buyers here are not gullible and easy to fool. That's what we've got to tell BMW Malaysia and AB. Don't just throw stuff at us and treat us like gullibles and expect us to bite. I guess they're the ones feeling the bite with abyssmal penetration of the E90 in Malaysia after 16 months!
The new S&M Director Michael Lerch is an experienced guy from Munich and perhaps he was brought in to address the situation. Now I think I'll wait and see if there are positive changes in the price/product mix before reentering the BMW fold!
The new S&M Director Michael Lerch is an experienced guy from Munich and perhaps he was brought in to address the situation. Now I think I'll wait and see if there are positive changes in the price/product mix before reentering the BMW fold!
Schwepps
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Yes 3er, thanks. Malaysian car buyers are always getting the short end of the stick. During the days of hefty protectionism, we had limited choices. Now with the new NAP, we have to contend with a collapsed resale market, tougher finance approvals and rising fuel costs. AND we're still getting the same limited choices!
Car distributors who still give us a "take it or leave it" menu should be told by the market that it's just not on anymore. Mr Lerch, if he's worth his sparkling CV, ought to be reading this forum to get a feel of his new posting. Don't just shower loving allocades of BMW in this forum. Let him also know what we want if he expects to get our support.
Car distributors who still give us a "take it or leave it" menu should be told by the market that it's just not on anymore. Mr Lerch, if he's worth his sparkling CV, ought to be reading this forum to get a feel of his new posting. Don't just shower loving allocades of BMW in this forum. Let him also know what we want if he expects to get our support.
It is also worth to note that AB is not entirely to be blame for our limited choices. AB can only sell what BMW Malaysia gives them to buy. If BMW Malaysia don't bring in the M-Sport package now, then nothing much AB can do about it. The volumn of our market will dictate the choices avalible to us. This is a pure supply and demand model, nothing personal. I know in US/Europe, when you order a car, you get to choose your own options. The order form has a list of check boxes that you tick off for the options that you want. Then you wait and they give you the exact car with the options you want. Volumn in Malaysia is to small to have that kind of concept, so they bring in "standard" options for us. Interestingly, Malaysia's "standard option" is not exactly base model, we do have some options that other countries have to pay extra for. I think in Singapore, the E90 there is equipped with iDrive.
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