Rebuilding the M54B30

[pussy]

opened up the engine today and here is what i found:

2 blown & fried up pistons
1 broken cam holder (!)

really gotta figure out the root cause before making any decision.

btw the boost was increased from 8psi to 10psi without a retune, according to ESS there is no need to do so. there was no guarantee that the tranny could take the load which i was willing to accept but there must be something really wrong to blow 2 piston...

please input...thanks

only reason here is, due to our hot weather... hotter air, less dense so more psi, more force, less fuel based on more psi..

can be many, many reasons...

 

[leforte]

you meth/water is the root cause of all this. fyi , you basically have minimal room for a proper meth/water system.

anyway please elaborate on your meth/water injection setup, how did you have the system setup? pre throttle, post throttle but pre ts2 compressor unit or post ts2 compressor?

 

[ess530i]

you meth/water is the root cause of all this. fyi , you basically have minimal room for a proper meth/water system.

anyway please elaborate on your meth/water injection setup, how did you have the system setup? pre throttle, post throttle but pre ts2 compressor unit or post ts2 compressor?

pre throttle... what you mean by minimal room?

could it be the stock engine compression (10.2:1) generating too much heat for FI? even before upping the boost & meth/water system the car was driving with pretty consistent knocking whenever the ambient temp is above 30degrees C. when below 30 the drive is much smoother & powerful. we've another forumer here with a TS2 kit comin up soon, let's see if he faces any knock issues in hot days. i always thought the ECU would cut back whenever there are knocks, maybe it did but still fail to save the engine

ramsing... yea the plugs seems kinda whitish. i'll snap a photo when i have a chance...

 

[ess530i]

here's a photo of the plug... seems kinda whitish

moving on... i need to decide quickly on the following options:

1. remove the TS2 kit and return to stock standard (not something i want)
2. rebuild the engine with forged internals (9.0:1 CR) and maintain 10psi of boost (would go for it if i can be assured the engine wont blow, i still believe the tranny can take the load with regular oil change, 2yrs of hard driving & didn't show any sign of failing)
3. rebuild the engine with stock internals and reduce boost to 8psi which is ESS TS2 stock (really no confident since there are tons of knock when hot)

either way the meth/water injection will be removed as safety precaution (it was initially added as a safety precaution against detonation!)

will reducing the CR from 10.2:1 to 9.0:1 greatly reduce the chances of a detonation / knocking? reduce the engine heat? please input guys... thank u very much

 

[IsaacVky]

Reducing CR may deteriorate lower end but since your on SC it shouldn't be much of a problem.
With the same boost you will experience less power than the original internals but you've got a forged internals, go booooooost it man.

 

[wc9922]

Looking at the cylinder head dome, showns signs of uneven combustion across the cylinder chamber. If the combustion is even, your cylinder head the dome will all be the same color. Some areas are totally without carbon.

The combustion flame front is starting more at the exhaust half of the piston as this is where where the air fuel mixture starts burning moving towards the intake side of the piston. While this is normally how it it's designed be, in your case the flame front speed is very rapid ( i.e cylinder pressure rise during power stroke is causing detonation) as you are boosted.
The uneven pressure forces causes greater uneven force distribution on the picton crown than design (more on the exhaust side) so the damage was on the intake side piston skirt.

Would image that after you have upped the boost, without the ECU retuned to reduced the timing figures accordingly, it's firing a bit too early causing the combustion flame to move so fast detonation occurs. Lowering your CR would help in your case as mapping is fixed at the moment.

Still not sure why it's break at the ring-groove area specifically like that. What's the story with the cam holder?

Secondly, why is it only happening to your middle 2 pistons #3-#4 only ? By design they should be the 'safest pistons'. Interesting stuff.

Meanwhile go have fun with your new Scooby!!

 

[jo-e34]

bro ess....for force induction u should really consider to lower the compression and rebuild the internals with forged parts..........so that u can eliminate the pistons meltdown issues and u could have higher boost in future........

 

[ramsing]

if the meth/water is the cause of it, then why only piston #3 & 4 is affected? looking at your intake manifold, #3 & 4 is right smack where the air comes in wiht the meth/water. so if uneven distribution is the culprit, shouldn't the pistons further out be leaning out, like #1 or #6? and from the pic, the plug looks white.

but didn't you have the same problem previously? before u added the water kit? was there a solution to that? maybe you could try the same route? if there's knocking, means something is not right. it wont go away, and the ecu can only retard so much.

lowering the CR and using forged pistons is not solving the problem. with ur current tune, u wont be optimising the setup. might as well rebuild stock and get a thicker gasket. the stock engine can be pushed more, its just figuring out what's not working. but having the same thing happen twice, means the problem is still there.

 

[ess530i]

What's the story with the cam holder?

i am really curious too... this is the first time ever we've heard of it. fortunately the cam is not damaged or at least it doesn't appear so. few possibilities in my opinion:

1. the boys over tightened the bolt (he said did not use torque wrench but boss said got use)
2. previous use of lightweight crank pulley caused the metal to be weak (unlikely)

back to the blown pistons, could bad fuel quality be the root cause? there is this station near my area where i feel that the fuel doesn't give optimum power at times. could be psychological coz i am really hoping dat its as simple as bad fuel quality... any of you had engine probs due to this reason b4?

anyway i have pretty much decided on proceeding with options 2. should i go for standard 84mm or oversized 84.5mm pistons? the cylinder walls appear good visually. not sure if i can trust the local machine shop to bore my cylinders. Its BMW Germany vs some backyard Msia machine shop...

 

[wc9922]

The condition of the block should be checked by machine shop specialist to seee if the block will be to accept std piston sizes at the present condition. The mechist will tell you the piston clearences with liner and the piston ring end gap clearences. If the bore is worn out of spec for std size piston, then oversized piston is the way to go.

 

[ramsing]

unless the fuel is mixed with kerosene or other stuff, it shouldn't affect the tune if the RON rating is correct. there are high hp cars using the same fuel with no problem, running at much higher boosts.

option 2 will be a full set of hardware? nice. so u're taking the stage 3 kit from ESS? what HP/TQ u looking at?? hopefully this solves ur knocking problem.

 

[supergripen]

Wow..this is indeed very interesting.

Still waiting for my install to be completed..some minor issues during the process,ESS is working out the mapping.I'm sticking to ESS's setup and will be upgrading slowly in baby steps,mainly cuz the car is my daily driver and I need stock driveability.I was told that ESS is working on a software upgrade for our 6sp ZF stepboxes,so I guess there will not be a need for a manual swap to increase boost further in the future,up to a point.

Will advise on my car's setup when I get the car..

 

[ramsing]

cool...more ppl taking the FI plunge :top::love: TS's are nice, with a TQ curve so flat, u can use it as a table. hehe. so u'r going with a stage 1? wont be soon b4 u want moreeee powaaahhhh...:top: hehe

Wow..this is indeed very interesting.

Still waiting for my install to be completed..some minor issues during the process,ESS is working out the mapping.I'm sticking to ESS's setup and will be upgrading slowly in baby steps,mainly cuz the car is my daily driver and I need stock driveability.I was told that ESS is working on a software upgrade for our 6sp ZF stepboxes,so I guess there will not be a need for a manual swap to increase boost further in the future,up to a point.

Will advise on my car's setup when I get the car..

 

[supergripen]

cool...more ppl taking the FI plunge :top::love: TS's are nice, with a TQ curve so flat, u can use it as a table. hehe. so u'r going with a stage 1? wont be soon b4 u want moreeee powaaahhhh...:top: hehe

I've had FI'd cars before so it's not my first experience with FI..but it definitely is my first FI'd BMW so I'm pretty excited right now,can't wait to get the car back:wink:

Always been a boost junkie so I guess this is just me being a 'sireh pulang ke gagang' so to speak..truthfully tho,what I'd really love is an e90 M3 with an ESS supercharger.There..I've already set a target for me self..opppsss!!!!

 

[ramsing]

I've had FI'd cars before so it's not my first experience with FI..but it definitely is my first FI'd BMW so I'm pretty excited right now,can't wait to get the car back:wink:

Always been a boost junkie so I guess this is just me being a 'sireh pulang ke gagang' so to speak..truthfully tho,what I'd really love is an e90 M3 with an ESS supercharger.There..I've already set a target for me self..opppsss!!!!

hehe...i was meaning a BMW with FI. not many around...or most of them are hiding. but will be a blast to drive. E90 M3 with a s/c, 8250 redline V8 blown, not much else to live for after that

 

[supergripen]

hehe... E90 M3 with a s/c, 8250 redline V8 blown, not much else to live for after that

agreed 200%!!! ESS is actually testing a setup as we speak..unofficially they're talking about 500+rwhp on light boost levels.. mindblowing!!

But to the real world tho,I'm happy with an initial 8psi of boost from my TS2..dunno for how long tho haha

 

[ess530i]

unless the fuel is mixed with kerosene or other stuff, it shouldn't affect the tune if the RON rating is correct. there are high hp cars using the same fuel with no problem, running at much higher boosts.

option 2 will be a full set of hardware? nice. so u're taking the stage 3 kit from ESS? what HP/TQ u looking at?? hopefully this solves ur knocking problem.

sorry for late reply... was so mesmerized by the scooby i almost forgot i had an engine to rebuid

mine would be a TS2 kit with a smaller pulley upgrade to 10psi so i think its considered a TS2+. targeting around 300whp (on 2nd tots, with meth) which probably is as much as the tranny can take. the lower CR should eliminate most of the knocking problem. another thing i'm suspecting is the engine cooling system, the car has no engine temp gauge and never once prompted me for high temp. i know when the engine is running very hot due to the fan's higher running speed when temp increases. sometimes the fan will continue running at higher speed for a very long time (>15mins) after heavy throttle, possibly indicating that the temp is extremely high and the cooling system is unable to bring it down to normal. and that was not in sepang on a hot day, it was in genting at night where ambient temp is around 18 degrees C. i'll install a water/oil temp controller after this to monitor and probably need to upgrade the cooling system.

i havent ordered the parts yet... all the options are slowing down the decision. i was thinkin since the TS3 14psi (450hp/520NM) kit runs on stock conrods & head gaskets, mine should be able to without any prob. this way i save about USD1.2k. according to the topend, the pistons & conrods SHOULD be balanced with the crankshaft. i realize there may be no one local competent enough to do a crankshaft balancing. if i do get pistons only, do i need to balance it with my conrods? i'll get a new set of conrods since the old has taken a beating. pls comment...thx

 

[iluvboostbmw]

hi, just chanced upon this interesting thread...im running a ASA t1-12HD SC on my E60 as well.
imho, i believe your blown pistons are due to the meth...when u run meth u need a special tune or else it be very lean at the high RPMs..the ESS tune is only for 8psi, thus, insufficient for your car setup...

WI is still ok, ECU can adapt..

Did u experience a lot of CELs when u high rev before your pistons went out?

Anyway im from Singapore, im boosting 0.75 bar with Aquamist injection, with SHRICK FI camshafts, headers, lightweight pulley...car is running strong, but i have occasional CEL during long periods of idling.

 

[supergripen]

Wonder if running an engine oil cooler and a tranny oil cooler will have any negative effect on the e60's complex electronics? As it is,my install is at a 'roadblock' already due to a previous CCC swap(jap to euro/my) that I did earlier.ESS's new mapping can't 'connect' to the car's brain cuz of this and the car can't be started.
Now I'm having 2nd thoughts about my other planned mods cuz of potential stumbling blocks presented by the car's complex electronics..quite why they have to make it more complicated than the Endeavour space shuttle is beyond me,I mean it's just a friggin car!! Darn.. my JDM goes much faster,handles much much better and has a complex 4wd system to boot but the electronics doesn't interfere/intrude much,unlike the e60.Sheesh..

 

[ramsing]

hi, just chanced upon this interesting thread...im running a ASA t1-12HD SC on my E60 as well.
imho, i believe your blown pistons are due to the meth...when u run meth u need a special tune or else it be very lean at the high RPMs..the ESS tune is only for 8psi, thus, insufficient for your car setup...

WI is still ok, ECU can adapt..

Did u experience a lot of CELs when u high rev before your pistons went out?

Anyway im from Singapore, im boosting 0.75 bar with Aquamist injection, with SHRICK FI camshafts, headers, lightweight pulley...car is running strong, but i have occasional CEL during long periods of idling.

cool...nice to see more FI rides. ASA's are cool, i believe has a clutch which disengages after a certain rpm point. with cams, must be a real screamer at high revs. u must have a fun time when u cross the border :wink:

but running meth actually increases the octane, and if your tune is not for meth, u'll feel a loss of power, with everythign else equal, but at least its a safeguard against detntn. but by right it shoudn't cause det, especially if ur tune is not based on meth injn.

Wonder if running an engine oil cooler and a tranny oil cooler will have any negative effect on the e60's complex electronics? As it is,my install is at a 'roadblock' already due to a previous CCC swap(jap to euro/my) that I did earlier.ESS's new mapping can't 'connect' to the car's brain cuz of this and the car can't be started.
Now I'm having 2nd thoughts about my other planned mods cuz of potential stumbling blocks presented by the car's complex electronics..quite why they have to make it more complicated than the Endeavour space shuttle is beyond me,I mean it's just a friggin car!! Darn.. my JDM goes much faster,handles much much better and has a complex 4wd system to boot but the electronics doesn't interfere/intrude much,unlike the e60.Sheesh..

that sucks. so u've got to swithback to jap ccc?? otheriwse no TS?? damn the electronics hehe