Rebuilding the M54B30

[ess530i]

The car: BMW E60 530i with M54B30 engine running on ESS TS2 @ 10psi, stock internals, water/meth injection (50/50), okada projects plasma coils, denso ik22 iridium plugs (1-step colder than stock), remus exhaust & cold air intakeThe situation: Recently lost compression on cylinder # 3 & 4. car is drivable but with rough idling & exhaust note and about 10% loss of power. was running shell helix ultra 5W-40 & v-power only fuel when the engine lost compression. suspect head gasket or exhaust / intake valve failure.The plan: To rebuild the engine with forged internals to have the problem solved once and for all (hopefully). quote received from Top End Performance in US for forged JE pistons + rings, forged pauter conrods + bolts, cometic MLS head gasket, ARP head & main studs, race bearing set = +/-USD3k. seems to me that they are the only one who carry a full range of BMW engine rebuild parts. the mechanic: 'fatty' and the boyssifus... need your advice to ensure the plan is successful. some of my doubts include:1. the bore and compression ratio for my set up - stock is 84.0mm / 10.2:1, am thinking of going for 84.5mm / 9.0:1. is this level safe enough for 10psi of boost? at stock ratio i am getting occasional knocks even with colder plugs, meth injection & CAI. will a reduction of compression ratio affect the drivability at low end RPM's, b4 the SC kicks in? what if the SC is removed in future... will it still drive like a stock 530i?2. brand / supplier - is JE pistons & pauter rods ok? have checked with CP and a bunch of dealers they dont deal with BMW partsthis is all i can think of at the moment, will have more coming soon. meanwhile, any input will be very much appreciated. thx...

 

[ramsing]

chief....lowering your CR will allow you to boost more compared to stock CR. but whether which is better, depends on the boost, tuning and what u're looking for. with a TS, i doubt u'll feel any difference in the low end. but if the TS is removed, then you'll definetely feel the difference. usually CR of 9's is well suited for FI applications. one reason y u're getting knocks could be the tunijng is not suited for our climate. WI helps to compensate, but its not a solution. especially when the car is tracked/ pushed hard.

JE is a reputable brand. been around for a long time. ppl will have mixed reviews. but most impt is tuning. hardware is only as good as the software running it. but u have to remmeber, if u're lowering the CR, the tuning has to compensate for it.

 

[ess530i]

how do i tell if my tuning is out? AFR reading seems good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRp_muohZGg

i saw in another thread where turbology said that "A car with 9.2:1 compression ratio engine can easily get more preignition than a car 11:1 engine." perhaps he can shed some light here...

 

[lozo]

lowering the CR will allow you more boost. most aftermarket brands such as je, wiseco, pauter, their forged pistons are good, (those guys dragging with their satrias are boosting 2 bar) and they provide good support too. if you want to use oversized pistons, get the block done by a good machinist. in the end of the day, you need some programmable ecu for tuning purposes. it will make you engine last and perform better.

 

[teejay]

how do i tell if my tuning is out? AFR reading seems good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRp_muohZGg

i saw in another thread where turbology said that "A car with 9.2:1 compression ratio engine can easily get more preignition than a car 11:1 engine." perhaps he can shed some light here...

the secret is to get a custom tune
you can't run your 9.0 comp with stock mapping - anything modded out of stock will render your ecu "dangerous" for the engine, which has proven itself again....and fatty should have advised you to get a custom tune when you installed the SC in

if the SC is taken out in the future, possible to run the car, but it will be consuming alot of fuel to run the car normally

suggest you email ESS and findout if they recommend/have custom tune system for your setup

GL

 

[leforte]

ESS has all the forged components with 9.0 cr for your requirements. please contact me directly should you need them. however you car is a automatic, so durability of the ZF unit is a big question mark should you decide to further increase the performance. fyi you are already pushing the ts2 8psi tuning with 10psi now. so i sudgest you've a chat with ESS for a proper tune and setup.

for your current issues, i suspect you meth/water injection to be the main culprit. please elaborate on the meth/water kit installation on your ts2 setup. since there is little room or length in the ts2 manifold for proper installtion and atomization of the meth/water nozzle, its highly likely that the spray is unequally distributed to all cylinders thereby causing a lean burn and detonation in the two middle cylinders. meth/water injection works but it must be properly installed and controled.

 

[ess530i]

ESS has all the forged components with 9.0 cr for your requirements. please contact me directly should you need them. thanks

hi leforte pls give me a quote for the full set of parts needed for a complete engine rebuild... my emails to ESS regarding this went unanswered. thx...

 

[ramsing]

ESS has all the forged components with 9.0 cr for your requirements. please contact me directly should you need them. however you car is a automatic, so durability of the ZF unit is a big question mark should you decide to further increase the performance. fyi you are already pushing the ts2 8psi tuning with 10psi now. so i sudgest you've a chat with ESS for a proper tune and setup.

for your current issues, i suspect you meth/water injection to be the main culprit. please elaborate on the meth/water kit installation on your ts2 setup. since there is little room or length in the ts2 manifold for proper installtion and atomization of the meth/water nozzle, its highly likely that the spray is unequally distributed to all cylinders thereby causing a lean burn and detonation in the two middle cylinders. meth/water injection works but it must be properly installed and controled.

leforte....if the tune is not tuned for the WI/MI, then an unequal distribution should not make a diff right? if u're tuning for meth and there's an unequal spray, then the risk of deto is there. but with the std tune and tge addition of meth to increase octane, shouldn't this be a suppresant for knock? i'm just curios. with boost and other variables at their defaults levels

ess530...i didn't know u were pushing beyond the tune. no wonder u were having knocking problems. +ve disp chargers run boost v quickly. if ESS can give 9.0Cr and the correct tune for it, then looks like a solution. at least u get good support, rather than piecemeal and u can go ur desired boost. looks like a manual box is next, u can finally lose the skirt as real men drive manuals. hehehe :wink:

and to answer ur question, with a lower CR, u can up ur ignition via the tune. so with ur current tune, and a cr of 9, u wont get optimum results from ur TS. a higher cr usually gives better response, but with pump fuel, cant give u mad power. lowering the cr gives u more boost, but then ur dependant on it.

 

[leforte]

hi leforte pls give me a quote for the full set of parts needed for a complete engine rebuild... my emails to ESS regarding this went unanswered. thx...

hey bro, there is no official upgrade kit for your e60 but the e46 kit below can be retro fitted since its the same engine variant. HOWEVER they are meant for MANUAL cars ONLY. should you decide to do so, its at your own risk and ESS will not be liable to any damages there after. both item will be required on top of the ts2 kit that you already have in your car in order to upgrade your kit to ts3 spec.

http://esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=255 USD 4995

http://esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=251 USD 1400

 

[leforte]

Leforte....if the tune is not tuned for the WI/MI, then an unequal distribution should not make a diff right? if u're tuning for meth and there's an unequal spray, then the risk of deto is there. but with the std tune and tge addition of meth to increase octane, shouldn't this be a suppresant for knock? i'm just curios. with boost and other variables at their defaults levels

Meth/water injection increases the octane rating of the air fuel charge in the cylinder. and results in a lower intake air temps of the incoming air charge when injected upstream of the throttle. the car's DME tuning will assume to a small variance that the 6 cylinders are all getting the same intake air temps, the same fuel octane rating, and the same amount of fuel injected into each cylinder and its monitored by two O2 sensors per banks of 3 cylinders. when meth/water is distributed unevenly to all cylinders, some cylinders will be running leaner than others, and results in the detonation of the lean piston.

ess530...i didn't know u were pushing beyond the tune. no wonder u were having knocking problems. +ve disp chargers run boost v quickly. if ESS can give 9.0Cr and the correct tune for it, then looks like a solution. at least u get good support, rather than piecemeal and u can go ur desired boost. looks like a manual box is next, u can finally lose the skirt as real men drive manuals. hehehe :wink:

solution available but the automatic box will never survive the power

and to answer ur question, with a lower CR, u can up ur ignition via the tune. so with ur current tune, and a cr of 9, u wont get optimum results from ur TS. a higher cr usually gives better response, but with pump fuel, cant give u mad power. lowering the cr gives u more boost, but then ur dependant on it.

the ess 9.0cr is perfectly speced for the 14psi TS3 setup to run, on a N/A setup a higher CR will give better response but its opposite for FI. lowering the CR give you the ability to booost higher (not gives you more boost)

 

[ess530i]

i thought of replacing the auto box with manual when its done but seems that it is not possible due to the complex electronics of the e60. not even sure if anyone in this world has done it before, cant seem to find anything on the web.

2nd option is to just overhaul the engine to stock and reduce boost back to ts2's standard which is 8psi... still there is a high chance of engine failure when the car is driven hard. our hot weather is the biggest contributor...

 

[paultantk]

i love threads like this, get to learn alot! one unrelated question - i always had the idea E60s all came with n54 engines.

 

[IsaacVky]

i love threads like this, get to learn alot! one unrelated question - i always had the idea E60s all came with n54 engines.

only the later(updated?) one. that's why you see some E60s are advertised with 'magnesium' engine which is the n engines. M54B30 makes 250+ on E60 and 231 on E39.

 

[ramsing]

Leforte....if the tune is not tuned for the WI/MI, then an unequal distribution should not make a diff right? if u're tuning for meth and there's an unequal spray, then the risk of deto is there. but with the std tune and tge addition of meth to increase octane, shouldn't this be a suppresant for knock? i'm just curios. with boost and other variables at their defaults levels

Meth/water injection increases the octane rating of the air fuel charge in the cylinder. and results in a lower intake air temps of the incoming air charge when injected upstream of the throttle. the car's DME tuning will assume to a small variance that the 6 cylinders are all getting the same intake air temps, the same fuel octane rating, and the same amount of fuel injected into each cylinder and its monitored by two O2 sensors per banks of 3 cylinders. when meth/water is distributed unevenly to all cylinders, some cylinders will be running leaner than others, and results in the detonation of the lean piston.
but the variance will be minimal by the ECU, because the tuning will have its limits. so even with the unequal distribution, but with an overall increase in octane, i always figured that knocking wont happen. but i guess with more boost than the tune can support, then its a different story

ess530...i didn't know u were pushing beyond the tune. no wonder u were having knocking problems. +ve disp chargers run boost v quickly. if ESS can give 9.0Cr and the correct tune for it, then looks like a solution. at least u get good support, rather than piecemeal and u can go ur desired boost. looks like a manual box is next, u can finally lose the skirt as real men drive manuals. hehehe :wink:

solution available but the automatic box will never survive the power

and to answer ur question, with a lower CR, u can up ur ignition via the tune. so with ur current tune, and a cr of 9, u wont get optimum results from ur TS. a higher cr usually gives better response, but with pump fuel, cant give u mad power. lowering the cr gives u more boost, but then ur dependant on it.

the ess 9.0cr is perfectly speced for the 14psi TS3 setup to run, on a N/A setup a higher CR will give better response but its opposite for FI. lowering the CR give you the ability to booost higher (not gives you more boost)

ya, what i meant is that u can boost higher.

 

[ramsing]

i thought of replacing the auto box with manual when its done but seems that it is not possible due to the complex electronics of the e60. not even sure if anyone in this world has done it before, cant seem to find anything on the web.

2nd option is to just overhaul the engine to stock and reduce boost back to ts2's standard which is 8psi... still there is a high chance of engine failure when the car is driven hard. our hot weather is the biggest contributor...

thats the problem with technology, doesn't allow you to screw around with the car. hehe. our weather is hot true, but the most impt is the tune. the tune has to take into account all factors, including the environment. so with a good tune, u can make good power with teh supporting hardware.

 

[leforte]

i thought of replacing the auto box with manual when its done but seems that it is not possible due to the complex electronics of the e60. not even sure if anyone in this world has done it before, cant seem to find anything on the web.

2nd option is to just overhaul the engine to stock and reduce boost back to ts2's standard which is 8psi... still there is a high chance of engine failure when the car is driven hard. our hot weather is the biggest contributor...

There are plenty of ESS ts2 around and non have encounter any issues with the tuning even in environmental condition hotter and more extreme than what we have in Malaysia. the tune is perfect right out of the box from ESS, any meddling of it with unauthorized mods will only give you future headaches. so its best to keep it at the specs recommended by ESS.

 

[leforte]

thats the problem with technology, doesn't allow you to screw around with the car. hehe. our weather is hot true, but the most impt is the tune. the tune has to take into account all factors, including the environment. so with a good tune, u can make good power with teh supporting hardware.

the ess ts2 tuning or any of their other tuning is perfect right out of the box.

anyway ESS has a very stringent test requirements and goals for all their products before any ESS engine related performance product is released for sale be it softwares or hardwares, and here is the requirements or goal set by ess on all their products:

1. a 60 hour computerized load dyno test, which simulates driving so hard that it is just not possible to drive this hard in real life.
2. all development cars are put through a 50000 mile (80000km) long term test which involves track driving, high-speed Autobahn driving for extended periods, and normal everyday driving.
3. The car must have factory like or better driveability and smoothnes, and it must develop the extra power in a smooth and perfectly balanced manner.

only when ess meet these 3 goals with 100% success, and only then, the product is released for sale.

 

[ramsing]

cool stuff. no wonder they're one of the big boys in the tuning circle. :top:

the ess ts2 tuning or any of their other tuning is perfect right out of the box.

anyway ESS has a very stringent test requirements and goals for all their products before any ESS engine related performance product is released for sale be it softwares or hardwares, and here is the requirements or goal set by ess on all their products:

1. a 60 hour computerized load dyno test, which simulates driving so hard that it is just not possible to drive this hard in real life.
2. all development cars are put through a 50000 mile (80000km) long term test which involves track driving, high-speed Autobahn driving for extended periods, and normal everyday driving.
3. The car must have factory like or better driveability and smoothnes, and it must develop the extra power in a smooth and perfectly balanced manner.

only when ess meet these 3 goals with 100% success, and only then, the product is released for sale.

 

[ess530i]

2-pistons blown & a broken cam holder

opened up the engine today and here is what i found:

2 blown & fried up pistons
1 broken cam holder (!)

really gotta figure out the root cause before making any decision.

btw the boost was increased from 8psi to 10psi without a retune, according to ESS there is no need to do so. there was no guarantee that the tranny could take the load which i was willing to accept but there must be something really wrong to blow 2 piston...

please input...thanks

 

[ramsing]

crap....broken pistons usual suspects are detonation. are the spark plugs whiteish? so a retune was not needed, but could it be because of the uneven spread of water/meth? high boost turbo/supercharger apps in the US use water/meth kits off the shelf with no consequences. even the 350z neighbour runs fine.

wonder if on WOT there's not enuf air to match the timing? but the ecu should cut back if theres knock. weird.