Maser Quattroporte kills M5 & B5

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Originally posted by ALBundy@Dec 1 2005, 07:13 PM
To be honest all these reviews by various mags boils to one thing, entertainment for mere mortals like us who cant afford an exotic car!

The other thing is this, if you are given two cars to drive on the track, say a Porsche GT2 Turbo and an e46 M3 CSL, which car do you think you will do better lap times? The answer is, unless you are an experienced driver and good enough to tame the beast (GT2), you would probably do better in a M3.

My 2 cents :)
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to drive both the CSL and GT turbo...I'll crash at turn one :beaten:

its easier said then done ....I dun dare to drive la. B). the hell..I even heard that Lotus Elise that can beat Porsche in Sepang sumore..!! thats bullshit la... :nyehehe:
 
I wonder what's the weight distribution of F1 cars? They corner the best - achieving the most G's. But they do need aerodynamics downforce to help. Maybe a GP2 or A1GP car will be a better example, what's their weight distribution?

How about the McLaren F1? I read somewhere it has 41% weight to the front.
 
For F1 cars I could only speculate that it depends on the track layout. The placement of weight ballasts changes from track to track, strategy (heavier fuel,lighter fuel, harder/softer compound) Come to think about it, its a complex equation and no wonder they do so much testing!! :)
 
Originally posted by OSFlanker@Dec 1 2005, 07:33 PM
I wonder what's the weight distribution of F1 cars? They corner the best - achieving the most G's. But they do need aerodynamics downforce to help. Maybe a GP2 or A1GP car will be a better example, what's their weight distribution?

How about the McLaren F1? I read somewhere it has 41% weight to the front.
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and I remember you told me that it ended up that its the tyre thats winning the races... :yes:
 
Oh yes, the McLaren F1 definitely had a glorious BMW V12, but it definitely did not have 50:50 weight distribution. And, given the obsessiveness of Gordon Murray to create the perfect car, do you not think a 50:50 weight distribution would've been top of his list if it were so ideal?
 
Originally posted by The Necessary@Dec 1 2005, 03:15 AM

50:50 is thus, not ideal in this situation.
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A statement that 50/50 weight distribution is not ideal is not correct either. You may be right that a slightly rear biased distribution is good, but then again, whats the magnitude? 5%, 10%? 20%? There is no "magic number" accepted by the industry out there beyond the general 50/50 rule.

Generally, it should be around 50% which text books put as a base for ideal weight distribution (so your statement goes against what text book states). For race and track setup, there is further finetuning depending on the track, and nature of the circuit + car, but generally it won't be very far off 50-55% weight distribution.

For daily driver street cars, what is the general percentage "magic number" then accepted by the industry as ideal? You guessed it.. its 50/50...

Here's one published article on weight distribution. more can be found in books, either auto/chassis engineering based, or race/track setup books.

References from the pros
 
Originally posted by ALBundy@Dec 1 2005, 05:05 AM
For F1 cars I could only speculate that it depends on the track layout. The placement of weight ballasts changes from track to track, strategy (heavier fuel,lighter fuel, harder/softer compound) Come to think about it, its a complex equation and no wonder they do so much testing!! :)
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Ya Bundy's rite.. An F1 car is interesting, as it has regulated weight limit of no less than 600kgs in race trim (with driver and fuel) throughout the race. So an empty car's weight distribution will be significantly different (percentage wise) compared to a fully fueled car and driver since a driver can weigh as much as 10% of the car. In race trim, its also not far off the 50% distribution setting on average across tracks.
 
Originally posted by Alvin@Dec 1 2005, 05:41 PM
Sh!t! Just stumbled on this thread. Finally something i can read in this forum!

WJ

Why no include my MCS or 320i. My car not worthy izzit! :D
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I thought your car is the sweeper to take care of everyone?
 
Actually what I write has nothing to do with my 4 year old and humble 325i A. Its just technical facts from reputable sources which I contribute to the thread. As a tech guy, I do not appreciate non-backed claims of marketing, or ego serving statements... Its no secret that my heart is far from the BMW I own already.. and my next car may not be a BMW. But facts are still facts IMHO.
 
E46f, fair enough. You believe in your 50:50 "fact".

You, are wrong.

Understanding leads to an end of learning.
 
Originally posted by The Necessary@Dec 1 2005, 08:58 AM
E46f, fair enough. You believe in your 50:50 "fact".

You, are wrong.
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Please just prove me wrong then :). References or facts instead of blind statements please.
 
I don't need "references"! Just pay attention to the car when you drive the next time. Remember the sensations and read what I've written above. You'll see I'm right.
 
Originally posted by ALBundy@Dec 1 2005, 05:43 PM
To be honest all these reviews by various mags boils to one thing, entertainment for mere mortals like us who cant afford an exotic car!

The other thing is this, if you are given two cars to drive on the track, say a Porsche GT2 Turbo and an e46 M3 CSL, which car do you think you will do better lap times? The answer is, unless you are an experienced driver and good enough to tame the beast (GT2), you would probably do better in a M3.

My 2 cents :)
Click to expand...
Compare CSL to GT3 (non turbo) la dude. Experienced driver, GT3 definitely faster, evo did a test last year.. They found that the CSL is not that much faster than normal m3, definitely not gt3 league. Infact they thought is more Impreza WRX STI Type C kind of performance. Anyway M3 CSL is more of a marketing hype not quite as track bias as GT3.

Guys, please stop comparing bmw to a porker, it doesn't matter whether its M or not. It is in a different league altogether. I know some of you may say some magazines compare m5 to Gallardo. Power wise may be, but supercar experience is much more than power, the sight, the sound, handling...... Drive m3 or m5 then after that drive a porker, you'll know what i mean.
 
Originally posted by The Necessary@Dec 1 2005, 09:08 AM
I don't need "references"! Just pay attention to the car when you drive the next time. Remember the sensations and read what I've written above. You'll see I'm right.
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Like I suspected.. there are no references available.

As for non-internet based references, pick up this book - Speed Secrets - Professional Race Driving Techniques by Ross Bentley. First 5 chapters are dedicated to car dynamics and setup.
Just a simple quote on page 44-46:

"You goal is to drive in a way to keep the weight of the car as equally distributed over all four tires as possible. In other words, balance the car... (on pg 44: balance describes the cars weight is equally distributed on all four tires . When the car is balanced, you are maximizing the tires traction. The more traction the car has the more in control the car is and the faster you can drive around the track (btw he elaborates quite a bit on effects of weight transfers etc as well in this section of the book)"

Debates and emotions aside, the book makes for great bedtime reading for enthusiasts like ourselves... highly recommended.
Makes you wanna go attack the track after reading it :)
 

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