F10 528i-TEST DRIVE

[ay39]

Btw, please do not bring politics nor race into my thread. I have mingle with the OM and non OM of all races and I have never once consider them Indian, malays, nor Chinese. They are like me, a bunch of crazy and passionate BMW lovers, one race, one emblem, that of a blue and white emblem.

 

[aoch88]

@t2ribena
Sorry boss, I didn't know It was just a joke anyway.

@holdbreaker
Our road condition is terrible. If you compare Singapore or Thailand, theirs are even better. If our road quality is better, the F10 would feel even better!

 

[fabianyee]

Actually, most carmakers are moving towards making cars faster and comfortable and in a way made it deceptive when it comes to speed, in other words 'disconnected' from the road. U can easily drive it fast and don't really feel the speed, which can be a danger... It made the driver feel like Vettel but can't handle it in emergency situations due to the higher speed.

I guess BMW is also going along with the flow cos that's what the masses are looking for. Like it or not, end of the day, $$$ dictates the direction. I guess if u want the real BMW driving feel, u have to get the M..

 

[aoch88]

You have a good point there fabian However at the same time, cars these days are equipped with many safety features and technologies, a big improvement compared to the past. I would say that despite these cars can go fast and you feel "disconnected" from the road, it is still a lot better than locally made cars like Proton which does not adopt to proper safety measures. Fatality rates of people crashing in a Beemer or Porsche is obviously lower than those travelling in cars which does not have a good safety system in place.

In Europe and America, cars have to past certain safety tests before being sold to consumers.

 

[t2ribena]

regardless of any safety measures that is built into the cars limitation still exists and law of physics still applies regardless of Proton or BMW. From most of these accident its always human error rather than machine fault which is normally 5% of the probability. We always hear proton crashed and ppl die but less BMW crashed and ppl also die...its about statistics like you said earlier...Proton outsold BMW by a scale of 40:1 so the probability of a Proton being handle by a driver that do not 'know' what he/ she doing getting into this unwanted situation is higher...if you reverse the situation, then maybe you will hear a lot of BMW crash and ppl die...

so while building a safer car saves life still you cannot remove the main variable from the safety equation which is the handler...crash test is made at speed deem to be common when drivers follow the speed limit...test results conducted at 60kmh is definitely not the same when the impact is at 120kmh as the damage factor is normally exponential of the speed...

FYI, there is quite a number of e60 crash and the car caught fire and life lost...

a product is as good as the target consumer willingness to pay...safety = money...Proton can make a car like a BMW but this is not the market they wan to be in...imagine a 300k Proton vs 300k BMW...your choice is quite clear right?

 

[Drer]

Actually, most carmakers are moving towards making cars faster and comfortable and in a way made it deceptive when it comes to speed, in other words 'disconnected' from the road. U can easily drive it fast and don't really feel the speed, which can be a danger... It made the driver feel like Vettel but can't handle it in emergency situations due to the higher speed.

I fully agree with you, bro fabianyee, regarding the "deceptive" n "disconnected" part! Just got my F10 about 1+ month ago, cruising at 110km/h gave me a feeling of only 70km/h (in my former Honda Accord): you just can't simply rely on your "feel" to gauge the speed, can be quite dangerously misleading that my wifey n I at times unintentionally drove too fast ..... luckily there's this HUD thingy that's there to remind us, indeed a very helpful gadget :top:

 

[aoch88]

regardless of any safety measures that is built into the cars limitation still exists and law of physics still applies regardless of Proton or BMW. From most of these accident its always human error rather than machine fault which is normally 5% of the probability. We always hear proton crashed and ppl die but less BMW crashed and ppl also die...its about statistics like you said earlier...Proton outsold BMW by a scale of 40:1 so the probability of a Proton being handle by a driver that do not 'know' what he/ she doing getting into this unwanted situation is higher...if you reverse the situation, then maybe you will hear a lot of BMW crash and ppl die...

so while building a safer car saves life still you cannot remove the main variable from the safety equation which is the handler...crash test is made at speed deem to be common when drivers follow the speed limit...test results conducted at 60kmh is definitely not the same when the impact is at 120kmh as the damage factor is normally exponential of the speed...

FYI, there is quite a number of e60 crash and the car caught fire and life lost...

a product is as good as the target consumer willingness to pay...safety = money...Proton can make a car like a BMW but this is not the market they wan to be in...imagine a 300k Proton vs 300k BMW...your choice is quite clear right?

Unfortunately I'm unable to agree with you completely The way you are putting it is literally saying these features does not give any advantage at all which is not true. Standards, processes, laws and measures are here to ensure things are in better shape and in place. Of course I'm not a car safety expert but no matter how you reason it, your explanation makes no sense because it is clear and obvious safety standards are relatively important in today's automobile technology.

Designers in Europe and other big car makers would always take safety into consideration, not just building a car which is fast but does not have proper safety features. Please note that to achieve a car that is fast without any dynamics and safety features is rather simple and even you can do it. Just plonk in a big engine to whatever car you have and there you go, a fast car that has the feel of speed, wobbly and NO safety features.

I'm quoting Proton as a hypothetical example, it does not necessary mean the comparison has to be specifically be with Proton in all cases. Accidents happens and these safety features are meant to save lives and research has proven that it does. Unless you're a better scientist with reasons that it doesn't, you should join the international auto forum and get everyone in the panel to agree with you that safety is not important, safety tests are not real enough and that drivers need to "feel" the actual speed of the cars.

Lastly, every car would have crashes and even a Ferrari or Bugatti Veyron does. The point I want to make is, manufacturers today are trying to make cars which is fast, gives you the great comfort level, better handling and comes with good safety features. Let's not deny this fact It's impossible to always compare a car made in the 70's or 80's with something that is made today. The automobile industry has evolved and so does everything else. If you think the 10 year old fridge at home is cooler and you expect newer energy saving fridge to be just as cold, having the retro feel of closing the handle which isn't there in the newly developed fridge, my advice is just keep the 10 year old fridge. We evolve with the technology and not the other way round.

 

[t2ribena]

"Unfortunately I'm unable to agree with you completely The way you are putting it is literally saying these features does not give any advantage at all which is not true."

sorry but which part of my posting earlier gives you the thought that safety is not important features at all...if you could understand what I am saying...it is about the car can be made so safe but at the end if the driver decides to flaunt it then no safety device can help him/ her...thats all...

it seems like you take everything out of context from anyone's posting...

like wise from your posting earlier " it is still a lot better than locally made cars like Proton which does not adopt to proper safety measures"

how do you know Proton does not adopt proper safety measures? any proof or is this just another of your hypothetical example? or speculation? are you part of the Proton design team that you are certain that they have not taken any measures like you said...

 

[aoch88]

I'm not saying Proton is not adapting to safety features but it's just that they still have a lot to improve on. We have so many technologies these days in a car from dynamic stability, EBD, airbags, etc and all these are part of safety if not for a better driving experience. I don't think I need to list them out but by simply comparing proton and a Japanese make, you will already notice the differences. Engine chassis design also has physics to it and manufacturers tries to make it less fatal to the driver if an accident happens, i.e the overall impact can be reduced.

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit blunt but I'm just being too direct that said, I don't have hard feelings for anyone and I always adapt to healthy discussions

 

[t2ribena]

I think no one will have any problem if you are being blunt or too direct if what you deemed as healthy discussion is not plaque by inconsistent posting, misunderstanding and postings for the sake of making a point without factual information...for example...

post #64 - "it is still a lot better than locally made cars like Proton which does not adopt to proper safety measures"
vs
post #69 - "I'm not saying Proton is not adapting to safety features but it's just that they still have a lot to improve on."

get what I mean...

anyway...have a nice day...

 

[fabianyee]

This debate will never end...

Can't compare to Porsche and Ferrari cos they are purpose built fast cars which has more steering feedback, meaty engine 'music' and exhaust note to go with the speed compared to a saloon car. Different league.

but bear in mind the roads we used are shared with other cars and trucks and buses. It becomes a potential problem when u drive faster than u think u are actually going... It's ok if you drive fast knowing full well u are going fast.. But not when u're not aware of the real speed.. Even on the Autobahn, crashes seldom happen on the highway but at the exit cos after going at 200kph for 30 mins, 100kph feels like 50kph. so the tendency to exit at a faster pace is higher, more so with a fast 'muted' car.

I personally don't like driving fast in a car which lacks the feel of speed, its deception is unnerving. It's like 'driving' PS3..
And I also can't 'drive' on PS3 cos I don't feel the road.. hahaha.. I need the sensory information overload to whack the roads.

Anyway, the market demands will dictate what products (and services) being dished out to us. Some likes it, some don't.. No need to debate so heatedly on this.

 

[zhul]

Had a go with the 528i at Sepang for a few laps and its abilities were amazing. Although it was a big car, it was gliding through corners with little drama and makes the driver feel safe and comfy. Like others have mentioned most of its 'communications' to the driver comes through the steering and the engine sound. The overall 'feel' seems muted but not to the level of a Merc. So it can be a tad boring to those used to the previous generation 5 series or 3 series.

I think this car will be perfect for the busy exec who needs to go quickly from point A to point B with some of the famous BMW characteristics but not to the level that it disturbs his business mind or business calls.

 

[ALBundy]

Well said zhul.

Trust me BMW knows what they are doing. When I was in Munich recently and had the opportunity to talk to some engineers, all this are taken into account during the development stage. When the E60 525 M sport was launched many complained about the harsh ride quality and some opted for the standard 523. Now with EDC, that should cater to everyone's taste. However, the optimum setting is normal, best compromise for comfort and performance as I was told.

Then there is the steering feedback issue, now with efficiency being the rage amongst manufacturers, EPS is the norm and some loss of feedback is expected but the question is how much?? Some folks like it light for city driving and some like it 'heavier' for a more natural feel. This being an enthusiast forum will naturally see more wanting a more performance oriented setup. Similarly with the engine note, if nvh is improved then the sound from the exhaust and engine will be muted.

Having driven the f10, I think it has the right balance. The only model which has a muted steering feel is the x3 in my opinion. It's way too light, like the Camcords.

 

[aoch88]

@ t2ribena
Haha, nice catch there Lesson of the day - don't type long replies in forum with the phone. Like I said, Proton is still not up to standards in terms of safety. Their chassis design is not properly optimized, not much technology being introduced in the cars, they did not pass safety and crash tests with a good scoring. That said, it does not mean they totally do not have it but it's just that they are far behind. There's always room for improvements anyhow.

I apologize for putting it up wrongly at the first place but I remain consistent in what I'm trying to say.

@ fabianyee
I certainly do agree and it's up to the individual on what they prefer so obviously there's no fixed answer to this :d However I would just like to point out that most car manufacturers are moving into this direction, to design cars that a comfortable even at high speeds. This means the driver will not feel very much on the actual speed he is travelling. The good NVH that BMW has also plays a role here. I guess that explains why they market the M5 as a "business car" but with a touch of a button, it becomes a "sports car" If it's meant to be harsh and sporty at the first place, they should've said it's a sport car that can become a business car instead, lol.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[xero200]

Had a go with the 528i at Sepang for a few laps and its abilities were amazing. Although it was a big car, it was gliding through corners with little drama and makes the driver feel safe and comfy. Like others have mentioned most of its 'communications' to the driver comes through the steering and the engine sound. The overall 'feel' seems muted but not to the level of a Merc. So it can be a tad boring to those used to the previous generation 5 series or 3 series.

I think this car will be perfect for the busy exec who needs to go quickly from point A to point B with some of the famous BMW characteristics but not to the level that it disturbs his business mind or business calls.

If you liked the 528i, you'd love the 535i with its roaring engine revs...really sweeet! I think if you take away all the VDC and DSC, in Sport + mode, the car is actually quite responsive. I guess you gotta drive the full range of cars before saying it's rather disconnected, trust me.

 

[holdbreaker]

@holdbreaker
Our road condition is terrible. If you compare Singapore or Thailand, theirs are even better. If our road quality is better, the F10 would feel even better!

Where I work, the road conditions are quite crap. In comfort/normal...it is superb. In sport, chassis config only, at slow speeds, very nice. With Chassis + Drive Train...wah liao..difficult to drive in crowded, slow conditions. Accelerator is not linear...it's like a caged bull waiting to lunge forward...

 

[jovial8]

And not to forget our speed limit is just 110km/h... although most of the car has increase torque and hp ////////////

 

[aoch88]

Where I work, the road conditions are quite crap. In comfort/normal...it is superb. In sport, chassis config only, at slow speeds, very nice. With Chassis + Drive Train...wah liao..difficult to drive in crowded, slow conditions. Accelerator is not linear...it's like a caged bull waiting to lunge forward...

I absolutely agree, the car is just so powerful It's really fun to drive but having the option to set comfort/normal during normal driving is really a good thing to have. At least we can have a slow and steady ride when we're with the family and sports+ when we want some extra ooomph on the road.

And not to forget our speed limit is just 110km/h... although most of the car has increase torque and hp ////////////

It's not only in Malaysia, it's in most places of the world that speed limit is 110km/h - 130km/h I don't think it matters because once in a while people break speed limits, even my 60 year old aunt does.