325 Sports vs IS250 vs new C Class

[danc]

I do not know your background nor what you drive but, let me ask you this question:
Do you believe that a stock 325 is powerful?

About your disbelieve that the aftermarket sales service being better then BMW's, believe it!

Daniel,

Like what innovator said, power is very subjective. I have driven a Cayman S and I still find in "under powered" for a Porsche. My earlier comment when you mentioned that the 325 was under powered as compared to IS250?? I don't think so...

So when you claim that a car is under power etc, what is your reference point? I would completely agree with you if you say that the 325 is "underpowered" compared to the 335 or M3 in the E90 family, but compare it in it's own class and engine displacement and hp, I think the power is more than decent.

 

[Schwepps]

Agreed Innovator and Danc. Power is subjective. Is the E90 a boy-racer dragster? No - it's not meant to be. Is it the best all round sports sedan giving the best balance of driveability, power, luxury and class? A resounding yes. An Evo or Imprezza has more raw power and handling, but they are definitely not lux and pretty harsh on your butt. They look butt-ugly too It depends on what you want in your car doesn't it?

I don't know about the IS250, because it wouldn't interest me in the least. Not in the same appeal league as the contis - looks too much like a Toyota to me, sorry!

Mercs are great cars but don't have the same fire as BMW. Innovator, go to any sales or service advisor in C&C and I think you'll be satisfied. I think in the last few years, the management have sucessfully changed the attitude of their people from 'sales' to 'customer satisfaction'. You'll feel the difference vs AB immediately. Provided you look like a legit buyer - they're also good at profiling prospects I don't look forward to sending the BM for service, but I actually look forward to sending the Merc!

 

[k3nny]

What happened to the very worth contender, Audi A4 2.0TFSI Quattro?



BMW eater all round sans 335i of course.

 

[E46Fanatic]

Stock wise, the manual/auto 2.0 TFSi Quattro is slightly slower than the E90 325i manual/auto to the century. Hardly a BMW eater. The 2 cars are quite well matched in terms of performance.

However, since its a forced fed engine, tweaking the boost will bring the A4 to a different ballgame alltogether.

 

[Daniel]

Comparing within the range of the E90/92 is pointless. What can be achieved in a comparison between a 320 and M3?

The 325i is undepowered, the IS250, C230, A4 too. Look, you're paying 300k for a brand new car. The competition is somewhat in the same category, price and equipment wise. And they all pump out the low 200hp. The all weight in at a high 1.5ton.

So why i say underpowered. It's now 2007 going 2008. These type of figures are from the earlier generation of cars. Manufacturers have moved on and improved. Look at the Honda Gen 8 Type R, a N/A 2.0l motor pumping out 220hp. The Vaxhaul ASTRA VXR, 230hp. Holden's HSV cars are pumping out excess of 300kw! I do not see AMG nor M matching such power outputs.

 

[E46Fanatic]

There will be more powerful and faster cars you can buy for what you'll pay for a new 2.5 ltr 3 series, IS, or C for sure. As someone pointed out buyers from this segment are hardly boy racers type folks, and enjoy a balance of driving enjoyment with a touch of luxury and prestige. For this segment, these cars are well spec'ed for this time/age/generation. The scoobys, evos, GTis, Type R's are more of a boy racer's tool of choice. A different market actually.

But then boy racers grow up and eventually aspire for Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos etc, which offers speed, and a little more snob appeal to differentiate themselves from the other boy racers out there driving their evos, scoobies and type Rs hehe.

 

[INNOVATOR]

Schwepps  	
Mercs are great cars but don't have the same fire as BMW. Innovator, go to any sales or service advisor in C&C and I think you'll be satisfied.

If I was satisfied, I would be driving Merc by now? So, why am I not driving a Merc?

Schwepps
I think in the last few years, the management have sucessfully changed the attitude of their people from 'sales' to 'customer satisfaction'. You'll feel the difference vs AB immediately.

Have not felt any difference. Even went to NAZA. Still the same.

[CODE][/CODE]Schwepps
Provided you look like a legit buyer - they're also good at profiling prospects [CODE][/CODE]:eek:

This is a good one - perhaps the understatement of the year. Could you please enlighten the whole forum as to how they profile their customers - the legit ones from the non-legit ones. :dontknow: How did they profile me - a three time buyer of new BMW - I send my car to AB just to change a lightbulb. Even the smallest of service details gets their attention.

I don't have any shares in AB nor in BMW, so it won't worry me if I switch or get another brand of car. I have even asked you to get the very same person that sold you your car to contact me. My current vehicle is 3 years old at the end of the month and I am in the market for a new one. If C&C is that good, they won't mind getting another sale, right?

 

[Schwepps]

Innovator, I've PM-ed her name to you - I don't think it's right to post names in an open forum.

Re-profiling, I don't think it's a question of whether you look like you can afford to purchase. More whether you really have an intention to purchase...or whether you're there to test drive a particular car just out of curiosity, with no intention of getting it. We've all done it before. An experienced sales person will know from your body language.

 

[Schwepps]

Look at the Honda Gen 8 Type R, a N/A 2.0l motor pumping out 220hp. The Vaxhaul ASTRA VXR, 230hp. Holden's HSV cars are pumping out excess of 300kw! I do not see AMG nor M matching such power outputs.

Mate, I'm older than you I guess, but I would rather spend 300k on a lux car like a BM or Merc. I don't get a thrill anymore knowing that my drive has an extra 30hp over the next car at the traffic lights. :smokin:

 

[peanut]

Comparing within the range of the E90/92 is pointless. What can be achieved in a comparison between a 320 and M3?

The 325i is undepowered, the IS250, C230, A4 too. Look, you're paying 300k for a brand new car. The competition is somewhat in the same category, price and equipment wise. And they all pump out the low 200hp. The all weight in at a high 1.5ton.

So why i say underpowered. It's now 2007 going 2008. These type of figures are from the earlier generation of cars. Manufacturers have moved on and improved. Look at the Honda Gen 8 Type R, a N/A 2.0l motor pumping out 220hp. The Vaxhaul ASTRA VXR, 230hp. Holden's HSV cars are pumping out excess of 300kw! I do not see AMG nor M matching such power outputs.

There are more to a car than hp. If I were to buy a car based on hp alone, I would have gotten an EVO/Skyline instead. In addition, to compare a car like Civic Type R to a 325i is also like comparing apple and orange. Civic Type R has a high rev engine and the max hp 220 hp and torque 215Nm available at high RPM (8000 and 6100).

Type R is lighter because it also has less safety equipment.

 

[danc]

Maybe Daniel appreciate cars like Caterhams, or maybe a Lotus Exige?? Agree that is is not all about HP only or hp to weight ratio. In town driving, I think torgue plays a more important work. But I guess at the end one man's meat is another man's poison. To each his/her own. Peace ......

 

[INNOVATOR]

Schwepps, I agree that profiling has to be done. Someone who rides a Honda cub and works as an office boy is not in the immediate catergory for a new Merc. If I am going for a testdrive with no intention to buy; but have the capacity to buy; then, it is the primary job function of a sales rep to educate me about the finer things of the car, what I could and should expect from it; and encourage me to buy. I may not buy now, or in the next year or so, but I could buy based on the good rapport of the sales rep in the future.

When I wanted to buy a BMW, I told myself that I would buy new. If I could not afford a new one; I would wait till I could. I got my new one 16years later, and am with my third new one in 7 years. Just because I testdrive the car (not Myvi style); does not mean I have to buy the car or will buy one. I may not like it.

 

[E46Fanatic]

For me, the E90 was a by product of me being sibuk and following JPB to test and choose his E90 Sports or E92... No intention to buy or change cars. Darn got conned by the sales lady again!! LOL

 

[Daniel]

For me, the E90 was a by product of me being sibuk and following JPB to test and choose his E90 Sports or E92... No intention to buy or change cars. Darn got conned by the sales lady again!! LOL

sales lady? she must have been HOTT!

 

[Juan Powerblow]

For me, the E90 was a by product of me being sibuk and following JPB to test and choose his E90 Sports or E92... No intention to buy or change cars. Darn got conned by the sales lady again!! LOL

Hehehe... I was intending to get the E90 325i Sports then. It so happens that one became available for test drive at AB Glenmarie. I dragged E46F along cos we both had E46s then and wanted to see if the improvement justified getting a new car. I guessed it did. How I landed up with the E92 is another story!

 

[Daniel]

There are more to a car than hp. If I were to buy a car based on hp alone, I would have gotten an EVO/Skyline instead. In addition, to compare a car like Civic Type R to a 325i is also like comparing apple and orange. Civic Type R has a high rev engine and the max hp 220 hp and torque 215Nm available at high RPM (8000 and 6100).

Type R is lighter because it also has less safety equipment.

peanut,
Yes, the Type R and the 325i are different cars. But my point is that why can't BMW do something similar? Instead, they build the M3, a car costing almost twice of the 320i.

The K20A motor revs to 8400rpm, you say that is a high reving motor, thus making the 225hp. But the S65B40 (E92 M3) also revs to 8400rpm. Sure, the 325i redlines at a lower level, but if Honda could do it at 2/3 the cost of a 325......

 

[Daniel]

Maybe Daniel appreciate cars like Caterhams, or maybe a Lotus Exige?? Agree that is is not all about HP only or hp to weight ratio. In town driving, I think torgue plays a more important work. But I guess at the end one man's meat is another man's poison. To each his/her own. Peace ......

i do, even TVRs, KTM, Atom's etc.

 

[Daniel]

Mate, I'm older than you I guess, but I would rather spend 300k on a lux car like a BM or Merc. I don't get a thrill anymore knowing that my drive has an extra 30hp over the next car at the traffic lights. :smokin:

Sure, i can relate to that. But a 300k 325i Sport vs C230 (i think that's what they call it now) CKD at 260k. Do you believe getting a BMW will give you better value for money?

No more thrill for more power? then why a 325? 320 should surfice, no?

 

[E46Fanatic]

peanut,
Yes, the Type R and the 325i are different cars. But my point is that why can't BMW do something similar? Instead, they build the M3, a car costing almost twice of the 320i.

The K20A motor revs to 8400rpm, you say that is a high reving motor, thus making the 225hp. But the S65B40 (E92 M3) also revs to 8400rpm. Sure, the 325i redlines at a lower level, but if Honda could do it at 2/3 the cost of a 325......

Well the CTR costs almost twice a normal Civic 1.8 Vtec hehe. I really like the new Civic Type R, but just imagine after plunking down Rm200k for it, it wont be long before tons of normal Civics 1.8 and 2.0s get sprayed to championship white with all the taiwan mari Type R bodykits which will look just like your car. Quite sucky haha, esp when there will be tons of Civics on the road like that. You can also bet it'll happen sooner than later.

 

[Juan Powerblow]

I believe BMW could have been targeting Daniel for its new 135i Coupe. That should give the Honda Civic Type R something to sweat about. In terms of pricing, it might well be priced more than the Type R but that again is another story, mate!