Official Announcement on Restrictions for Classifieds & Group Buy Section

[tIANcI]

If that's what it is then ur on...

My tummy telling me to get the bimmer and go to McD, Centre Point ... mau ker? Gua belanja la ... says nie pandu BMW punya. LOL!!!

 

[XXX]

Lu gila ah...another day lah...just came back from a 30km ride..want to zzzz already.

 

[jwah]

Let go to Melaka to find zul , makan lulu

 

[dzuljazz2001]

Greetings All.

Its late and things got a bit tense here but good to see that some are blending well with each other :4:...
Guys, lets have some positive thinking here .... Lets stay focus and not get side-tracked from the main issue of this posting and that is in implementing some measures for the benefit of ALL concern. Honestly, we really appreciate all constructive feedbacks and I can understand the sentiment voiced here by everyone, (CGs and OMs). We are only human.

Basically what we are doing is taking precautionary measures to ensure everyone is 'safe' from disreputable, unethical and unscrupulous sellers that has been looming in the forum lately. Quite a number of PEOPLE has been cheated and duped and this matter has been brought to our attention.

Though we (CM) can easily say that this is "out of our hands (as specified in the disclamier)", we take to task this issue quite seriously, simply for the welfare of the CGs and OMs alike and for the betterment of the club.
Yes, sadly the one that is doing the 'damage' is currently the CGs (BUT NOT ALL CG laa) and a few of them had even registered with multiple nicks to avoid detection and we are having a torrid and difficult time looking for them. However, we still managed to get hold of a couple and they have been duly warned/banned but there are still some at large because we are not able to traced them down ..
True we can banned and blocked their IP address (at best) but that will not stop them from starting all over to continue preying on unsuspecting people, until something solid and conclusive is done.
We (CG/OM) had not been cheated nor duped here ourselves so we dont feel it. However I do feel for those that had gone thru these bad times.

To all the CGs or OMs reading this, if you had gone thru the posting carefully, you will see that we are not totally stopping CGs from any selling. What we are saying is that, any selling by any CG can be done via any OM who will be accountable for the said selling.

To avoid future problems where selling and buying is concern, Proper Governance to address this issue needs to be put in place my friends, and that is exactly what we are doing. We may have our shortcomings but will improve over time and thats is why we proposed to have this thread open for constructive feedbacks .

Rationale to the above is simple.
1. ..if anything goes wrong (not that we want it to happen), we can addressed it accordingly as full details of OMs are in our safe keeping.
2. ..this measures will definitly deter and or stop ill-intent sellers from whatever they want to do, God Willing.
3. ..this will bond the CG and OM closer and at the end of the day, the club benefits from this close bonding ..:4: ...

Frankly, we are not discounting anybody here but just addressing an issue put forth to us.
Maybe in the near future we will start a new thread to discuss and feedbacks on the "Membership, CG and OM" in a healthy and constructive manners.

Cheers All :top:

 

[dzuljazz2001]

If that's what it is then ur on...

:listen: ... I will buy you both teh tarik :4: ....

 

[wuzzles]

XXX, firstly I thank you for acknowledging that 2 wrong don't make a right.

I can understand how it may be frustrating to sometime have to continuously explain why the club fee is so high when a newbie/CG who think the forum IS the club. It isn't. The forum is probably the best conversion/marketing tool you have for club recruitment but it is not the only tool (though sometime I sometime feel it seem to be) and it is a double edge sword.

You have a nice vision (I am not sure if this is the club's vision) and if it takes off, am sure if will be a great marketing tool to get others to join. However, don't get frustrated if you can't get everyone to buy into it especially from the forum. Not everyone shares that vision...but some do. Concentrate on the positive and the people sitting on the fence might sway to you. Heck, you might even get people who don't even believe in your dream to join the bandwagon one day. However Rome wasn't built in a day and you can't expect 10% x 26000 x $150 = opportunity to make this vision come true. And when we can't get the volume / contribution / buy-in, don't take it out on the CGs especially when the problem of the day wasn't about #of official members & club survival but how to reduce / eliminate issues of cheating / fake / con in the forum. Hope this is taken in good faith.... cheers mate!

 

[jwah]

:sleep::sleep: is good for you..:top: 2:00am

 

[dzuljazz2001]

..... problem of the day wasn't about #of official members & club survival but how to reduce / eliminate issues of cheating / fake / con in the forum. Hope this is taken in good faith.... cheers mate!

:top::top::top: ....

 

[t2ribena]

Wow...after going thru the 5/6 pages of 'IMHO'...i think this is blown out of proportion...regardless it is a good or bad decison which no one would know exactly, the CM has taken the effort to make a standing based on their direction they are setting for the club and since they are in the beggining of their term in office, i hope they know what their direction is and along the way it will be proven right or wrong...a decision is neither good or bad until the time comes but with objectives and direction set, the decision made from this input is the only way...let the CM do their job in steering the club, agree to disagree, a ship can only have one captain...

The thing that we OM and CG need to understand from this decision is that;
- the CM did not shut off the CG from this forum...
- only the classifieds is restricted for CG...
- CG who are here for the passion of the brand should continue to do what they are here for, OM alike...
- the decision affect mainly ppl who are here with the primary objective of selling things and conmen which is not inline with the forum objectives...

and finally for the OM vs CG talks...this is mainly due to frustration from both parties that cause the uttering of "got money buy BMW, no money pay for memebership"..."OMs are arrogant"..."OMs are egomaniac"...regardless of how it is debated, it is never ending because we are bound by the concept of "free will" and thus your words against mine does not takes one to anywhere...at the end of the day the objective dictates and one party might not like the outcome...the objective here is the CLUB and its natural that OMs wants to see more ppl joining and it would be natural that CG is asked to join...for OMs they join for all sorts of reason...some would join but not collect any startup kits, never join any event, and never even show their face but this does not mean there is no contribution, they have contributed in terms of monetary support in order for the club to function...each person has different expectations and understanding on the contribution forms...and for CG, there are all sorts of reasons not to join and its their right...the only way both to co-exist is to compromise and this requires one to know the objective and priority of the situation here...the CLUB...

just another IMHO...

 

[dzuljazz2001]

.....and finally for the OM vs CG talks...this is mainly due to frustration from both parties that cause the uttering of "got money buy BMW, no money pay for memebership"..."OMs are arrogant"..."OMs are egomaniac"...regardless of how it is debated, it is never ending because we are bound by the concept of "free will" and thus your words against mine does not takes one to anywhere...at the end of the day the objective dictates and one party might not like the outcome...the objective here is the CLUB and its natural that OMs wants to see more ppl joining and it would be natural that CG is asked to join...for OMs they join for all sorts of reason...some would join but not collect any startup kits, never join any event, and never even show their face but this does not mean there is no contribution, they have contributed in terms of monetary support in order for the club to function...each person has different expectations and understanding on the contribution forms...and for CG, there are all sorts of reasons not to join and its their right...the only way both to co-exist is to compromise and this requires one to know the objective and priority of the situation here...the CLUB...

just another IMHO...

:4: ... you cannot put it much better bro, 5 star for you ..:top::top::top::top::top:

 

[jwah]

...let the CM do their job in steering the club, agree to disagree, a ship can only have one captain...:top:

 

[XXX]

...basically a CG needs an introducer to open a thread in the classified just like how one needs an introducer to open a current account...sounds fair to me.

 

[XXX]

:listen: ... I will buy you both teh tarik :4: ....

ON!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dzuljazz2001]

ON!!!!!!!!!!

See the both of you this Friday then :4: :top: ..... now we all can go to sleeeeeeppppppp ..... :4:

 

[lamoo]

Would like to start a donation drive of Rm 5.00 for the duration of 15th July till 15th August as a charity fund for BMWCLUB Malaysia Forum server fees.

As you all know, there isn't an admission or even a yearly fee to join this forum. But it does not run on love and air.... so the reason for this drive to raise funds.

We hope to carry on the traditions of BMWCLUBMALAYSIA Forum of not charging admission or yearly fees as mentioned above, but also to carry on the spirit of the marques, the indexes of problems/solutions for our cars, and least of all, a social gathering spot in an ocean of websites, forums.

We have friends that have moved on to other marques, but are still active in this forum! This lies in the strength of our friendship that was cultivated through active meet ups, ie. runs, TT sessions, tani sessions, paint ball sessions, the dyno sessions, eeeeerrr... so many to list....

In fact, there are members whom i've never met, but treated me as a brother when we did meet...

The community is passionate and helpful.

So, please do help in the continuation of this forum.

Do so with the thanks from the current committee members, and all the other members of BMWCLUB Malaysia
BMWCLUB Malaysia doesn't just consist of a forum, our strength lies in the members contribution of postings of thoughts, solutions, ideas, considerations, readings, jokes, pains, embarrassments, shame, joy, anger, love, hate, disgusts, admiration....


The Comm members are just temporary custodians of this forum, and another member just like you all...

LONG LIVE BMWCLUB MALAYSIA

woke up this morning with a heavy head and this came out while sitting in front of the computer. (testing testing testing toying toying toying) shoot as much as u like if u do not agree on this hehe

 

[Daniel E30]

Sometimes I wonder why got all type of reason/excuses not to join the club...The Club is just an entity its got no life it cannot hurt you or do anything to you...so wht you pay is in support of the club not to support anybody but the Club ...so that this club can be maintained for the benefit of you all the BMW enthusiast/owners ...but the problem here is, its now being maintained by a few for the benefit of many...this is the crux of dissentment among the OM's, is why pay for the benefit of others ...just imagine this, if you all are BMW enthusiast as you claim to be, and all of you pay to be a member of the club..so lets assume we can have 2683 members (which is the the figure currently for active users in this forum) x RM150 = RM402,450 (and mind you this does not include the RM150 registration fee yet). With that kind of money we dont have to be just confined to this forum in cyberspace..we can have clubhouses all over the country and much much more other than just the forum...but now its 150 people paying for the benefit of 260K+ registered users. So wht Im trying to say here is, if everybody stop giving excuses and put the money where the mouth is...this club can really benefit everybody whether ur in KL or in another state, but how can we do that now with 150 people paying to feed 260k people...or for the matter of fact 2683 people.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, XXX. Even a valcano massage cause us more thab rm150. As OM u get unlimited plesures whole year round.

 

[BlackCat]

I pay! And I can damn well say yeay or nay...

I'll chip in a fiver for this forum any time of the day... So count me in

Extending on your idea, for non club members, why not place a pay as you post or a prepaid posts card!!!

Access to all sections all year, except for the 'Lounge'...

To buy posting rights:
1. Register with name, I.C. number, home address, office address etcetra etcetra...
2. Pay administration fees of RM150.00 [on time payment if payment of posting fees is made on the next consecutive years]
3. Pay posting fees of RM150.00 for unlimited posts for one calendar year [00:00:01 1st January to 23:59:59 31st December]

Oh ya... Newbie postings are limited to only a SINGLE FREE post per nick. PERIOD!

I drive an M3 and pay a road tax in access of RM3k
I grouse every year when its time to pay up but I pay nevertheless...
I dont know if this makes sense or if this is ok!
I know one thing for sure, when the RPM hits 4500 the feeling is priceless...

Call me an arrogant sob for all I care!
But I pay for what I use...
I pay for my footprint on this planet!
So peeps, please dont abuse...

I am not asking nor putting a gun on anyone's head to use this forum, but the last time I checked, the only thing that is universally free for now is the air that you and I breathe. And that may not be forever too if some government had their way! Some people complain to the government demanding clean air... Now more than ever, since the past few weeks. So you demand FREE CLEAN AIR??? Likewise, for this forum. If there needs to be a 'clean and safe' environment in the forum, it ain't gonna be for free mister!

Reading at the decisions that were made, I dont see that there should be any love lost for the CGs. If you don't know what I mean, go back to the first page of this thread and read post #1.

Most that had made comments here are those that do in many ways 'contribute' to this forum by their postings, others may not be so much. But! For you the CGs that posted comments in this thread, how may of you and how often do you utilize the classifieds to sell your stuff? Would it be sooo difficult for you to get an OM to vouch for you! A nusiance it may be, but you know what... the system potects buyers and sellers in this forum. Not all sellers and not all buyers are like you. Nor do they all come with an outstanding social background like you. And again, some of these victims are people you know and some of whom you yourself call friends... Wouldn't you do that for a friend?

Nuf' said!

 

[Daniel E30]

COUNT ME IN!!!! Im sure you will have the support from many

Would like to start a donation drive of Rm 5.00 for the duration of 15th July till 15th August as a charity fund for BMWCLUB Malaysia Forum server fees.

As you all know, there isn't an admission or even a yearly fee to join this forum. But it does not run on love and air.... so the reason for this drive to raise funds.

We hope to carry on the traditions of BMWCLUBMALAYSIA Forum of not charging admission or yearly fees as mentioned above, but also to carry on the spirit of the marques, the indexes of problems/solutions for our cars, and least of all, a social gathering spot in an ocean of websites, forums.

We have friends that have moved on to other marques, but are still active in this forum! This lies in the strength of our friendship that was cultivated through active meet ups, ie. runs, TT sessions, tani sessions, paint ball sessions, the dyno sessions, eeeeerrr... so many to list....

In fact, there are members whom i've never met, but treated me as a brother when we did meet...

The community is passionate and helpful.

So, please do help in the continuation of this forum.

Do so with the thanks from the current committee members, and all the other members of BMWCLUB Malaysia
BMWCLUB Malaysia doesn't just consist of a forum, our strength lies in the members contribution of postings of thoughts, solutions, ideas, considerations, readings, jokes, pains, embarrassments, shame, joy, anger, love, hate, disgusts, admiration....


The Comm members are just temporary custodians of this forum, and another member just like you all...

LONG LIVE BMWCLUB MALAYSIA

woke up this morning with a heavy head and this came out while sitting in front of the computer. (testing testing testing toying toying toying) shoot as much as u like if u do not agree on this hehe

 

[andrewk]

...basically a CG needs an introducer to open a thread in the classified just like how one needs an introducer to open a current account...sounds fair to me.

Agreed! Like I mentioned in my earlier posting, I believe this decision to restrict or rather moderate (which I think is the more appropriate word) the CG posting on classified is a good move and good compromise.

Weeding through all the emotions, i think there are a 2 key issues at hand:-

1. Maintenance of the forum
2. Growing the club

On the maintenance, i think this is the brunt of discontentment amongst the OM. Solve this will make issue two easier to achieve.

I stand by my earlier suggestion. Have CG pay for access. RM10 per year (which is 2x what lamoo is asking for in donations ). Additional benefit, if they pay via bank transfer, you'll have their name and bank acct number. That way, if they decide to cheat, at least you have some details for making police report etc. etc. You may even want to consider asking them to send over a copy of their IC to be a "registered" CG. Also, keep the forum viewable for visitors. If the quality of the postings and threads are good, these vistors will soon want to participate in the forum. That is then the first step to coverting visitors to registered CG and ultimately an OM. So, "issue one" resolved. CG will contribute to the maintenance of the forum/server cost.

Which comes to the next issue. Growing the club.

I think we need to realise that not ALL CG wants to be an OM. For whatever reason or excuse, its their individual rights. I believe with "issue one" resolved, the general attitude of the OM towards CG will be more positive. In turn, that will perhaps make the environment more condusive for CGs to decide to "turn blue".

From what I see from reading the various threads on why CG don't want to turn blue, one of the common themes that pops out is value. They don't see the value. Value is a very personal thing. For some of you, the friendship gained through membership alone is worth the value. For other, its the goodie bags, discount benefits, official drives etc etc. Unfortunately, like it or not, most people will see it as what the can GET out of being a member. So, (again) like it or not, if you want the club to grow, the CM will perhaps need to look into this. It could be in the form of trying to get more benefits from sponsors, or lowering the membership fee (and lets not go back to the "can drive XXX cannot afford RM300 argument la ). Fact is, there is always a tipping point.


"Quality and not quantity is what we want!"

Like most of you mentioned, with RM150 alone, you can't even pay for the goodie bags for each OM. Correct me if I'm wrong but even with ALL the CG converting to OM, the RM150 won't cover the goodie bags. So that being the case, how then can the club have club house, free annual dinner, freebie hotels, fuel etc. etc. etc.??? I believe the answer is in the corporate sponsors that the club gets, which I think that is the situation now, where sponsors that the club gets subsidises the benefits (again, I stand corrected la).

So, if you want to attract more sponsors, the sponsors also need to see the benefit of sponsoring the club. Like some of you say, nowadays, even clean air also may not be free. Corporate sponsors will only participate if they see value, either in promoting their brand, increasing their business or increasing their goodwill (this is perhaps more prevalent in cases of charities or causes that the company wants to be associated with). With 150 OM, a lot of potential sponsors will not be too keen as the "capitive audience" is too small. So, sometime you need the quantity in order to build quality.

Aiyaa.. so cheong hei. Sorry for the long post but I hope the CM and OM reading this can take this in good faith and spirit.


And bro lamoo, count me in for the RM5.

 

[XXX]

Like most of you mentioned, with RM150 alone, you can't even pay for the goodie bags for each OM. Correct me if I'm wrong but even with ALL the CG converting to OM, the RM150 won't cover the goodie bags. So that being the case, how then can the club have club house, free annual dinner, freebie hotels, fuel etc. etc. etc.??? I believe the answer is in the corporate sponsors that the club gets, which I think that is the situation now, where sponsors that the club gets subsidises the benefits (again, I stand corrected la).

So, if you want to attract more sponsors, the sponsors also need to see the benefit of sponsoring the club. Like some of you say, nowadays, even clean air also may not be free. Corporate sponsors will only participate if they see value, either in promoting their brand, increasing their business or increasing their goodwill (this is perhaps more prevalent in cases of charities or causes that the company wants to be associated with). With 150 OM, a lot of potential sponsors will not be too keen as the "capitive audience" is too small. So, sometime you need the quantity in order to build quality.

Aiyaa.. so cheong hei. Sorry for the long post but I hope the CM and OM reading this can take this in good faith and spirit.


And bro lamoo, count me in for the RM5.

Yes, u need to be corrected the RM150 I mentioned is the annual fee only like I said it does not include the RM150 one time registration fee and it is with this fee that is used for the Goodie bag, Start up pack or whatever u call it. And to have the model u suggested the club will need full time admin staff and not as easy u put it to be..screening , cross check, money, documentations and whole lot more involved than just banking in the money into the account...so again at this moment the club cannot afford with just 150 odd members...on the qty versus quality ...Why does BMW priced their cars at that certain range...why doesnt it sell it cheaper than Proton and then everybody can own one ....get the drift...:1: