I have a confession to make..

[jon3171]

well dsc is just a little driver aid that makes life easier for the average driver...i wouldnt go so far as to suggest that it is dangerous to drive without it...even in the wet...although i admit features such as dsc technically do help with safety...they also make people too reliant on them and in some cases renders drivers a little more absent minded than they ordinarily would be without dsc.

 

[Russie]

Hell yeah! I thought our 4-potter driven without DSC is less lethal than the 6-potter siblings but I was so wrong..

Our 225 wheels is very vulnerable in the wets especially when semi-worn and our so called balance chassis is actually bias to oversteer if driven too hard which if you have not experience what is an oversteer before in your life, u better leave the DTC button alone, especially in the wet! :smokin:

AB, glad to know that you and your car are alright. Well, not just on 225 wheels. Even a stock standard E36 318i with M43 engine + autobox on 205 wheels can get such oversteer experience. Drive safely

 

[astroboy]

Sometime I wonder, would this mean once a driver got use to all this electronic driver's aid, he/she would become a more lousy driver? Put the same driver in a BLM JDM with no electronic driver's aid, its a recipe for disaster!!

 

[Russie]

As I know, RWD car is not meant for novice who wishes to push the limit to the max during rainy days or on any wet road surfaces. Maybe a FWD car is more appropriate at least easier to predict.

 

[astroboy]

Aiyaa... my mini MPV also RWD what... and it understeers like crazy, but I pasang 80% worn tyres at the rear to reduce its wet traction to have fun in the rain..

One fella told me I was saved by the CSC2 because it has a trajectory self corrective characteristic thread pattern.. got such thing meh?

 

[Schwepps]

Sometime I wonder, would this mean once a driver got use to all this electronic driver's aid, he/she would become a more lousy driver? Put the same driver in a BLM JDM with no electronic driver's aid, its a recipe for disaster!!

Hahahaha! The aids do allow poorer drivers to all drive like hensom butang and balikelo. The earlier 3s like the E21 and E30 were notoriously backside-twitchy in the wet, as were the 911s. Now, all hug the road like F1 cars...that is if you don't itchy-tichy with the DSC button!

 

[t2ribena]

astro sendiri cari pasal la...hehehe

he want to test the DSC intervention but didn't realize he turned off earlier...so in this case it is not always correct to say that RWD car dangerous to drive nia as all cars got limit same as FWD cars...if u push the FWD just to test the lost of control u will end up gone wrong also...depends on the parameter that would make the things going really wrong...lol

 

[danc]

I read some where that most accidents on the roads are due more to under steer than over steer. True?

I wouldn't compare a RWD MPV (Avanza I believe) with the rest of the RWD sedans as the same. main diff, center of gravity.

 

[saat]

I read some where that most accidents on the roads are due more to under steer than over steer. True?

I wouldn't compare a RWD MPV (Avanza I believe) with the rest of the RWD sedans as the same. main diff, center of gravity.

Most accidents are caused by carelessness and/or inability of a driver to control the car either in an ovesteer or understeer. I think most inexperienced drivers will get themselves into trouble when overreacting ior reacting incorrectly in an oversteer situiation rather than an understeer.

 

[danc]

Most accidents are caused by carelessness and/or inability of a driver to control the car either in an ovesteer or understeer. I think most inexperienced drivers will get themselves into trouble when overreacting ior reacting incorrectly in an oversteer situiation rather than an understeer.

Of course I know that accidents happen because of carelessness etc :stupid:. What I am trying to say is when comparing accidents of over/understeer, most accidents are caused by under and not over. I just can remember where I read the stats but that what the stats revealed.

 

[saat]

Of course I know that accidents happen because of carelessness etc :stupid:. What I am trying to say is when comparing accidents of over/understeer, most accidents are caused by under and not over. I just can remember where I read the stats but that what the stats revealed.

Just trying to be pedantic.

 

[Schwepps]

That may be because most cars are FWD now danc, and FWD cars will understeer before oversteering. Even the Volvos, Audis and Alfas are FWD, and you can count on your fingers the few marques that remain RWD - mostly luxury marques.

 

[danc]

Mow that ,makes sense Schwepps.

 

[astroboy]

hey! nobody want to comment on my life saving CSC2 trajectory self corrective tread pattern tyre ka ??

Really got such thing or not..

I read some where that most accidents on the roads are due more to under steer than over steer. True?

I wouldn't compare a RWD MPV (Avanza I believe) with the rest of the RWD sedans as the same. main diff, center of gravity.

Yep! most cars on the road are intentionally designed to understeer (regardless of the drive terrain) because most agree understeer is easy to control, just slow down only... after which, a possibility of oversteer because lifting pedal will shift CG to the front, causing rear wheel losing grip.. (I think the fact is understeer car is cheap to build.. :wink

My mini RWD MPV is running 80% worn rear tyres... so also set up to be "backside-twitchy in the wet" okay.. :wink:

 

[flash]

Ha ha, now this is what I call "itchy backside"... ok,ok, I used to do that too on my FWD cars, just so I can throw the backside easier to take the corners. But now I tend to drive more sedately.

My mini RWD MPV is running 80% worn rear tyres... so also set up to be "backside-twitchy in the wet" okay.. :wink:

 

[ALBundy]

Of course I know that accidents happen because of carelessness etc :stupid:. What I am trying to say is when comparing accidents of over/understeer, most accidents are caused by under and not over. I just can remember where I read the stats but that what the stats revealed.

Yeah a big percentage of it is due to an initial understeer, which then caused the driver to panic and slam the brakes, that will induce a secondary oversteer and in some cases the car will fish tail.

Irrespective of whether it is a FWD or RWD vehicle, if one enters a corner too fast, the car will understeer!! So fast forgot what you've learn ah?? Time for refresher course!!!!:wink:

Cheers

 

[E46Fanatic]

One of our fellow E90's had a narrow escape this week while driving on the highway under slight rain. Doing ~120 km/h, the car started aquaplanning, wife who was behind the wheel panicked, and pulled the steering and slammed on the brakes in the wet. Thats when the DSC took over and managed to maintain the composure of the car. Ended up facing the opposite traffic at the end in a complete stop but both were safe and car didn't get a scratch. Without the DSC, the story would have been very different.

Maybe he'll share more about his experience as a passenger. But we gotta be thankful for these electronic aids.

 

[astroboy]

Wow... I wonder how would the DSC react to aquaplaning.. does aquaplaning provide the same feedback from the wheel to the DSC controller as skidding?

Aquaplane is wheel doesn't have contact with the ground, so by regulating engine speed or selective wheel braking won't rectify an aquaplane situation, but surrender the car to gravity and other forces of nature and pray..

When she slammed the brake, the ABS would kick in and when wheels regain traction, despite skidding, all the DTC, DSC, ABS would all be kicked in at the same time That where BMW technologies are fighting back the forces of nature... amazing stuff!

Glad to hear both of them and the E90 is okay! Thanks to BMW Technology.. and luck!

 

[flash]

Gosh, glad they are ok. Sure must have freaked them out. My wife once too slammed her brakes mid-corner, slightly wet road... and got herself into a fishtail. Luckily the cars behind her missed her. The natural tendency for us when we get into trouble is to slam the brakes and turn the steering abruptly - which is a no-no. Somehow it is not easy to go against the natural instinct.

Had aquaplaned many times on the NSE, well, was asking for trouble, tyres about 25% left, still running at 100+kmh. But once I feel I am losing traction, I just lift off the accelerator until I regain traction and whack it again. So it was on and off, on and off, until I reached my destination. Guess I have a death wish... hee hee.:stupid:

 

[jon3171]

Sometime I wonder, would this mean once a driver got use to all this electronic driver's aid, he/she would become a more lousy driver? Put the same driver in a BLM JDM with no electronic driver's aid, its a recipe for disaster!!

well to be frank...it does...its better to think of it in a positive light though if u wanna take the performance aspect...it may make a normal driver worse...but it will really allow a good driver to shine...people always think in terms of safety when u mention driver aids...but the fact is...the developments of these technologies started on the racetrack. So what does that tell u?...It simply means that it was meant to increase performance and speed....so basically a good driver will already be able to push a car to the limits of its natural handling....the driver aids will help him go that much quicker!

so in my opinion, to really enjoy an ultimate driving machine and all it has to offer, one might consider developing some ultimate driving skills first...best way to go is start out with an older car like an e30 or sth...if ur good with that, chances are u'd be pretty unstoppable in an e90!