Gearbox oil - issue to be settled once and for all ?

[viewfinder]

Jimi,

If you decide to change the ATF, you better find out what's the oil specified on the gearbox oil pan. There're 4 different ATF oil types...refer to this thread. Use a digital camera to capture the label (facing the ground, location approx below the gear knob) on the oil pan and confirm before you let any mechanic loosen any nut on the ATF oil pan.

 

[meetoo]

a few of our members had their gearbox go kaboom a few thousand kms after the change.

Can you elaborate on this please? I think reading this will scare the sh*t out of anyone thinking of gearbox oil change, so you should give more details.

The trouble with the term "lifetime" is that most people think in terms of their own lifetime, ie "forever". It's a bit of marketing spin because it depend on how you read the term "lifetime". Actually they should use the term "lifespan". Then we would think in term of how long a BMW gearbox usually last before you have to overhaul or rebuild.

 

[pujiesss]

Question :
I'm not arguing against transmission maintenance but how does BMW get away with sealing their transmissions on all 3 Series newer than 1999?
I understand the fluid doesn't even have to be changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm correct, please explain how they can do it?

Answer :
The torque curve on the M52tu engines is pretty flat, peak torque@3500 rpm and the GM 5L40 has smart BMW programming. So that the torque converter is locked up more often than not. So the primary heat source of transmission fluid [torque converter] is eliminated. Infact BMW and Mercedes use a long-life Hydraulic fluid instead of regular transmision fluid.

 

[pujiesss]

The BMW E46 325i with a manual transmission comes from the factory with a "lifetime" transmission fluid. BMW does not recommend any service for the transmission fluid because it was designed to last the life of the vehicle. In fact, there is a yellow sticker on the transmission itself by the drain bolt that says the transmission was filled with a lifetime fluid and the fluid does not need to be changed. BMW will not change the fluid for you during any of the scheduled free maintenance visits.

 

[pujiesss]

from canadian dude :

Here is an answer I finally got from some techy transmission dudes, may explain lifetime fluid in the tranny.


Actually, changing the transmission fluid is not always a good idea. In many cases, the friction material that wears away can help the clutches and steels grip each other. When you replace the fluid with new fluid, it then loses this added ability. This can cause excess transmission slippage and eventual transmission malfunction. I have personally seen those transmissions go 200,000+ miles without a fluid change.

 

[Jimi]

actually now i got headache already he he he he. aiyo so difficult one. rather change to camry 2.4 lah .......

the problem is now my friend said changing AT oil can cost RM900 to 1k plus a bit in penang la ......

what bout in KL ? how much?

 

[meetoo]

Look, for every post out there which is anti-change, there is one that is pro-change:


Depending on the Mileage. Eventhough BMW will say that it is a lifetime fluid, lifetime is 100K miles.

I had mine replaced at 96K miles for my old 840 and it did improve the smoothness of shifting.

ZF (ZF Friedrichshafen AG) does NOT recommend leaving the fluid in for the "lifetime" of the transmission unless you want a shorter lifetime! I think BMW's definition of "lifetime" is the end of the warranty!

ZF is the maker of the transmissions and they don't share the same opinion as BMW???

ZF does say now, however, if you have gone over 100K, things probably are worn and deposits have been built up that -may- cause an issue or bring about failure earlier if the fluid is changed after high mileage has been accumulated. They DO recommend changing regularly at around 50K-60K miles interval.


So the OEM maker of the transmissions says change, and BMW says don't have to. It depends on who you want to believe. There are also tons and tons of posts saying how problematic BMW gearboxes are.

As someone said earlier, if you're gonna change, then change early and regularly. If you're not, better leave it until your gearbox kong completely.

Smart programming? Ya, ya, up to you if you want to believe it la!

 

[pujiesss]

yeah for now im sticking to lifetime school.. if my gearbox can tahan until 300k and still work fine after dat, i will be more than happy already. now its 265k and counting ...

getting another car soon anyway. if all work fine, im sticking to lifetime school with my new ride. hehe~

 

[meetoo]

Good for you friend. Good luck with your new ride!

Yes Jimi, it's expensive to change the BMW recommended ATF. Owning a Camry is of course less headache than a Banyak Makan Wang la...

So E46Fanatic, how about the details of those forumer whose gearbox went kaboom? When I got my E46 end of last year, I changed all the fluids. So far after about 12,000km, nothing went kaboom yet (touch wood)!

 

[viewfinder]

Changing ATF at Auto Bavaria will cost you probably 1K. I'll pay that maybe if they do the change in an industrial clean room to prevent any airborne from getting in, but then that's what the ATF oil filter is for.

One bottle of ZF ATF oil is ~55 in Pg * 6 bottles = 330. Add labor and the ATF filter which is relatively inexpensive item, that's the bill.

Jimi, have you introduced yourself in the newbie section? You probably should, and join the Penang TT if and when there's one. Looks like there maybe one coming soon.

 

[Lee36328]

Question :
I'm not arguing against transmission maintenance but how does BMW get away with sealing their transmissions on all 3 Series newer than 1999?
I understand the fluid doesn't even have to be changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm correct, please explain how they can do it?

Answer :
The torque curve on the M52tu engines is pretty flat, peak torque@3500 rpm and the GM 5L40 has smart BMW programming. So that the torque converter is locked up more often than not. So the primary heat source of transmission fluid [torque converter] is eliminated. Infact BMW and Mercedes use a long-life Hydraulic fluid instead of regular transmision fluid.

Thanks for the clear explanation.

 

[meetoo]

Changing ATF at Auto Bavaria will cost you probably 1K.

Yes, it was about that or slightly more. But if you wanna change, better do it at AB.

Total cost of my light overhaul at AB when I bought the car was RM4k but I think it's worth for peace of mind. I changed all the oils and fluids and all minor wear parts like spark plugs, thermostat etc. The car has been purring along well for 6 months already and it time for another service.

 

[Silver]

Look, for every post out there which is anti-change, there is one that is pro-change:


Depending on the Mileage. Eventhough BMW will say that it is a lifetime fluid, lifetime is 100K miles.

I had mine replaced at 96K miles for my old 840 and it did improve the smoothness of shifting.

ZF (ZF Friedrichshafen AG) does NOT recommend leaving the fluid in for the "lifetime" of the transmission unless you want a shorter lifetime! I think BMW's definition of "lifetime" is the end of the warranty!

ZF is the maker of the transmissions and they don't share the same opinion as BMW???

ZF does say now, however, if you have gone over 100K, things probably are worn and deposits have been built up that -may- cause an issue or bring about failure earlier if the fluid is changed after high mileage has been accumulated. They DO recommend changing regularly at around 50K-60K miles interval.


So the OEM maker of the transmissions says change, and BMW says don't have to. It depends on who you want to believe. There are also tons and tons of posts saying how problematic BMW gearboxes are.

As someone said earlier, if you're gonna change, then change early and regularly. If you're not, better leave it until your gearbox kong completely.

Smart programming? Ya, ya, up to you if you want to believe it la!

Dude..... I totally agree with you here! I've change my trans fluids on my E46 328i and it feels much better than before (touch wood - nothing will happen to my gearbox!)

Btw, one of my cousin's was working for ZF Malaysia and he also shares your opinion - that change is better than no change!