E60: Creeking noises from doors while driving - HELP and ADVICE needed

[Mouse]

print the pic and show them how it look

http://www.z3bimmer.com/OffTopic/E24Bimmer/Gummi/

 

[Mouse]

wahh, i search on the net and non-BMW Gummi Pflege is only selling for USD 7.50, thought of getting one myself but unfortunately they dun send to Malaysia (i think they still dunno where we are). anyone know where to buy?

 

[KL2DC]

Mouse: Gummi Pflege is hard to find here as well...

The door striker plates is the metal door latch on your B pillar. Sometime it needs to be retorqued to old or new specs to tighten them up. That's one source of metal on metal contact that is attributing to the squeaking or rattling sound.

 

[KL2DC]

Here print this out for your SA...


SI B 51 02 05
Body Equipment December 2006
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.I. B51 02 05 dated October 2006.

SUBJECT
Squeaking Noise From Door Frame Area While Driving

MODEL
E60, E61 (5 Series)

SITUATION
Some customers may complain of hearing squeaking or creaking noises coming from the door frame area when driving on rough roads.

CAUSE
Movement between the flocking material (felt-like material indicated by the arrows) on the upper door seal and the surrounding roof panel may produce squeaking or creaking noises.
These noises may be amplified by contamination or cleaner residue on the door opening.

CORRECTION
In case of a customer complaint, refer to the procedure outlined below to replace the seals with improved parts and/or apply the specified transparent Teflon tape.

The flocking material was changed in 01/2005 to an improved material with exceptional rigidity, strength, and low moisture absorption.

The new and improved parts may not have any unique identifying stamps or markings. Therefore, the production date should be used to identify the new seals.

Updated seals will have a date stamp on the back of the part reading later than January 3, 2005 (3.1.2005).

PROCEDURE
Depending on the status of the vehicle, perform the applicable procedure described below.

Vehicles produced up to 01/2005, first complaint:

Replace all 4 upper door seals with the improved parts.

Follow Repair Instruction RA 51 21 360 to replace the front upper door seals.

Follow Repair Instruction RA 51 22 360 to replace the rear upper door seals.

Thoroughly clean the upper door seal's mating surface on the body of the vehicle with a silicone remover such as 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner or Wurth Silicone Remover.

Do not apply "Carbaflo" on these door seals.

Vehicles produced from 01/2005, and vehicles that have previously had the improved seals installed.

Thoroughly clean the upper door seal's flocking material, as well as the mating surface on the body of the vehicle with a silicone remover such as 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner or Wurth Silicone Remover.

Apply a continuous length of Teflon tape
(PN 9 407 798) to the contact area of the flocking material (1) on the body of the vehicle.
The area where the tape should be applied to spans from the middle of the a-pillar to the rear-most point on the rear door opening as indicated by the arrows.


Notes:
The tape should be applied slowly and very carefully to avoid trapping air bubbles under the tape.
To eliminate visibility of the tape when the door is closed and ensure proper contact with the flocking surface, the upper edge of the tape (1) should line up evenly with the top of the door seal (2) for the entire length of the applied area.
The tape should be applied in its full width (16mm), not be cut down to a narrower width.

C. Vehicles produced up to 01/2005, which are in for a repeat complaint, and have the original seals installed

Replace all 4 upper door seals as per procedure A.

Apply Teflon tape as per procedure B.

PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number
Description
Quantity

51 21 7 057 507
Left front door seal
1

51 21 7 057 508
Right front door seal
1

51 22 7 057 509
Left rear door seal
1

51 22 7 057 510
Right rear door seal
1

83 19 9 407 798
Teflon adhesive tape
1

3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner may be used for this procedure.

For more information on this product, please visit http://www.3m.com/.

Wurth Silicone Remover may also be used for this procedure.

For more information on this product, please visit http://www.wurthusa.com/.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Defect Code
Refer to KSD

Labor Operation:
Refer to KSD

Labor Allowance:
Refer to KSD

An additional work allowance of 3 FRUs may be added for the surface preparation and installation of the Teflon tape to the body of the vehicle, claimed under labor operation 51 99 000.

 

[johnchen]

Thanks KL2DC for that solution. I will forward it to BMW Malaysia and ask them to send it as a reminder to all their workshops!! I will certainly bring a copy of it along with me to Sapura Auto next week when I send my car in.

Cheers!

 

[chairoger]

Lucky not creaking sounds from the back seats....cabutz!!

 

[SpencerE60]

Mouse: Gummi Pflege is hard to find here as well...

The door striker plates is the metal door latch on your B pillar. Sometime it needs to be retorqued to old or new specs to tighten them up. That's one source of metal on metal contact that is attributing to the squeaking or rattling sound.

Thanks KL2DC for the infos. I applied carbaflo to all the rubber linings of all doors last night. It sure freshens up and conditions all the rubbers well. Worth the buck! Unfortunately, there still creeking noices coming from the windows this morning but not that loud anymore. At least it helps out.

I think KL2DC is right, it's the door latch that causes the flexing that developes the movement thus causing the noises on the doors. I just remembered that there's a similar problem (creaking noice) on the back door of my wife's Toyota Estima months back, I send it to an accessory shop and they just wrap the door metal latch with black rubber duct/cable tape and Poof! the noices dissappears till now....no more problem. I think that's the culprit but no proof yet. I think it might be the culprit since the doors are as weighty as my bimmer's. I'll try with one door first this evening and see what happens. (cant try now, my bimmers at the workshop for servicing). Will keep you guys updated on my experiment.

Thanks again KL2DC for reminding me of the "Door latch" thing! The last culprit that never came to my mind last time on my wife's car!

 

[KL2DC]

You're most welcome SpencerE60. GL with everything and don't forget to update us. Cheers.

 

[SpencerE60]

You're most welcome SpencerE60. GL with everything and don't forget to update us. Cheers.

Hi KL2DC and all bimmer fans here, Good day to all of you. I have found the root to the problem of the creeking noice! It's not the rubbers, not the window linings, not the door linings, not the latch of the doors (which I'm convinced previously and tried out with the tapes) and not the interior trims

The culprit are the doors themselves. My dealer took my car to Auto Mobile Garage in section 13 (they are real good, great service too...they even diagnosed my whole car for free) and took out all the door panels, checked everything and just RE-ALIGNED ALL THE DOORS....it's the door alignments! They told me that if the doors are not aligned properly, it may cause noices and flexes on uneven roads. Now all the noices are gone, whether it's a hot or cold weather. All this for RM85. Now Im at peace....at last.

Thanks again for all the advices, great experience too. PROBLEM SOLVED!

Best Regards,

SPENCER.

 

[johnchen]

That's great information SpencerE60. I used to send my Harrier to that place. Can you remember the name of the supervisor that handled your case? How long (hours?) did it take them to fix it?

Tomorrow or the next day I will be collecting my car back from Sapura Auto. According to them the noises are all fixed. We shall see. Meanwhile, BMW gave me a 545i courtesy car which I've been thoroughly enjoying for the past 6 days!! Very reluctant to give it back!!! By the way this ride has some of the creaking noise too but not as bad as my car.

Cheers!

 

[SpencerE60]

That's great information SpencerE60. I used to send my Harrier to that place. Can you remember the name of the supervisor that handled your case? How long (hours?) did it take them to fix it?

Tomorrow or the next day I will be collecting my car back from Sapura Auto. According to them the noises are all fixed. We shall see. Meanwhile, BMW gave me a 545i courtesy car which I've been thoroughly enjoying for the past 6 days!! Very reluctant to give it back!!! By the way this ride has some of the creaking noise too but not as bad as my car.

Cheers!

Hi John, Look for Peter and it only took them half a day (and they have like 50-60 cars to service in a day-my estimation )

545i huh......now Im jealous is it powerful?

 

[rookie]

Hi KL2DC and all bimmer fans here, Good day to all of you. I have found the root to the problem of the creeking noice! It's not the rubbers, not the window linings, not the door linings, not the latch of the doors (which I'm convinced previously and tried out with the tapes) and not the interior trims

The culprit are the doors themselves. My dealer took my car to Auto Mobile Garage in section 13 (they are real good, great service too...they even diagnosed my whole car for free) and took out all the door panels, checked everything and just RE-ALIGNED ALL THE DOORS....it's the door alignments! They told me that if the doors are not aligned properly, it may cause noices and flexes on uneven roads. Now all the noices are gone, whether it's a hot or cold weather. All this for RM85. Now Im at peace....at last.

Thanks again for all the advices, great experience too. PROBLEM SOLVED!

Best Regards,

SPENCER.

Great to hear that all your creaking noises have been solved. So, they re-aligned all 4 doors? Mind sharing the location of Auto Mobile Garage? Do they specialize in Bimmers?

 

[SpencerE60]

Great to hear that all your creaking noises have been solved. So, they re-aligned all 4 doors? Mind sharing the location of Auto Mobile Garage? Do they specialize in Bimmers?

Yup, they re-aligned all 4 doors of my car (since all the other 3 doors are beginning to have noices too). The workshop is located in the industrial area of sec 13 just beside TAR college......just turn in at the junction right before Dutch Lady (after the Sin Chew round about) and go straight, you wont miss it, the workshop and college will be on your right. They are specialized in Bimmers, Mercs, Porches and most luxury and big cars. Pricing wise, well, slightly higher than normal car services but comes with excellent service and since I've only been there 3 times and this is the only time that they charges me, the other 2 times are diagnostic purpose and resetting my i-drive comp. Well, they did solve my problems at first sight, no trial and error stuff here.

 

[rookie]

Yup, they re-aligned all 4 doors of my car (since all the other 3 doors are beginning to have noices too). The workshop is located in the industrial area of sec 13 just beside TAR college......just turn in at the junction right before Dutch Lady (after the Sin Chew round about) and go straight, you wont miss it, the workshop and college will be on your right. They are specialized in Bimmers, Mercs, Porches and most luxury and big cars. Pricing wise, well, slightly higher than normal car services but comes with excellent service and since I've only been there 3 times and this is the only time that they charges me, the other 2 times are diagnostic purpose and resetting my i-drive comp. Well, they did solve my problems at first sight, no trial and error stuff here.

Thanks for the info sir. They sound good in terms of trouble-shooting and solving problems, unlike AB

 

[SpencerE60]

Hi All Bimmer fans,

Here's some tips regarding "NOICES" that makes us go crazee....just hook in from bmwtips.com. Happy reading, guys!




Rattles in a BMW
by Jim Cash on July 27, 1999

Following is from documentation that I did for feedback on my 97 540i/A. My interior is now "dead quiet" but I do have to treat the leather seats about once a month - others have said similar about the leather


CABIN NOISES, and solutions

In many cases I applied lubrication in the locations where plastic components rubbed on themselves, or on metal or leather. The lubricant I used is called “Super Lub”. It is a Teflon based gel lubricant that apparently stays in place, does not deteriorate, and is not affected by heat or cold. It was also recommended for use on disk brake components.?It is also available in a spray format
Note - this is teflon, not silicone which should not be used.

Front seats:
1. Clicking sounds returned - bushings at the front required further lubrication (bushings need to be taken apart to do this).
2. Buzzing of the plastic seat rail covers - put small foam blocks under the rails (down by hte floor).
3. Creaking sound in back of driver’s seat - found several wire clips/springs squeaking when moved - lubricated.
4. Seat back panels loose enough to move against leather. Dented the brackets on the inside of the panels to more securely hold the mounting clips. On the passenger seat the plastic bracket clip inserts were missing for the upper panel. Tightened and lubricated all mounting clips.

Rear Seat and Package shelf
1. The rear folding leather seats “creak”, because they move with road vibrations. There is “play” in the bolt fasteners at the hinge points. I applied a wrap of tape to the outboard bushings to decrease the play in the body bracket, and I inserted teflon sheet material as a shim in the centre bracket to remove the play.
2. The 4 clips at the rear of the package shelf were not screwed down tightly, and one was actually turned sideways so that the vent tab was not in the clip. This allowed the rear of the shelf to vibrate.
3. There was a rattle in the sun blind occurring at the 3 “contact points” between the 4 bolts. I corrected this by inserting thin cloth insulators at these points. Also a friction fastener had fallen off the sunblind, and was loose on top of the plastic speaker housing.
4. There was a vibration in the upper brake light housing - corrected with silicon caulking along the lower gap between the lens & housing.
5. There are several plastic panels that move slightly against the metal package shelf, resulting in creaking noises. The main problems are the hard plastic bottom on the sound deadening cover for the shelf, and the upper trim panel behind the rear seats. I placed some cloth material between the panels and the body to eliminate this.
6. The speaker grills produced slight vibration sounds at times. I installed small foam pads under the grills. (glued to package shelf)

Door Panels - This apples to all door panels except where otherwise specified:
1. Creaking sounds from doors on small bumps, etc. - removed all panels and trim components. Lubricated “all points of contact” including clips and fasteners. The outer edge of the panel is where most noises were occurring.
2. Driver’s door had a wind noise, and cold air, at the rear lower corner. There was also cold air coming through the window control switch box in the winter. I found the interior sound/weather panel to be unsealed at several locations. I resealed it around the perimeter and also sealed the holes where the latch cable and wiring come through the panel.
3. The new seals along the top of the door are better than the old ones, but still creak at times. I finally solved this when I pulled them off and lubricated the underside of them (between the seal and the mounting surface)
4. The air ducts to the front doors are met with a round rubber-sealing ring on the body. This ring creaks against the door, and it’s own mounting surface - lubricated.

SunRoof
For as long as I have had the car there has been a “clicking” sound coming from the area of the sunroof - seemed to be from the rear passenger side. It occurred all the time, "except" when the roof was tilted up.
I finally was able to reproduce the clicking by moving the front of the open roof up and down a bit. The clicking was coming from the driver’s side, and using a stethoscope I was able to pinpoint it to the tilt hinge at the front of the sunroof. After application of spray lubricant it has been completely quiet for 2 months.

Dash
There were various components that caused noises in the dash. Some were minor, but added to the “symphony”.
1. Cracking sound around the dash/windshield area. It would occur when turning or braking - but only at times.?Others started talking about the same item on the digest, and someone chimed in that their BMW dealer (USA somewhere) said it was quite common and that it was the “earth pin” bolts in the hood hinge. ?I lubricated and adjusted mine, as the guy recommended - NO MORE CRACKING SOUNDS!
2. Faint buzzing sound in lower centre console. Traced to the keys rattling in several of the switches (ASC was the worst). Opened and applied lubricant to the interior surfaces.
3. Faint buzzing in the overhead panel. Traced to the relay on the circuit board of the sunroof control module. This is a sealed unit therefore I did not attempt to fix.
4. Creaking sounds from the centre dash whenever sun shone on that area. Traced to the climate control unit - it is a tight fit and it expands quickly when in sunshine. Applied lubricant around its perimeter.
5. Metallic vibration from the lower dash in front of driver. Traced to the metal knee bolster unit inside the dash. It resonates with certain road vibrations. Put some small pieces of foam rubber inside to dampen the vibrations.
6. There were also several other small components under the dash that could be made to vibrate when tapped. I used small pieces of foam to cushion and support various components.
7. I also looked into the trunk area for sources of noise. I found various plastic components that creaked etc.
- The plastic subfloor creaked in various spots
- I lubricated all contact points including the rubber supports underneath (some were missing).
- The rear panel needed lubrication at various points.
- The rear deck creaked loudly whenever slight pressure was placed on it (like washing / waxing). I removed the inner cover and found that the caulking beads between the inner shell and the outer skin were separated in several locations. They would creak loudly whenever they came together and separated - I assume this would occur as the outer skin flexed on bumps. I filled the gaps with silicone caulking. (I then checked the hood and found the same situation).

 

[SpencerE60]

Hi friends,

The problem of the creeking noices from my doors came back! Now on 3 doors I've sent my Bimmer to the workshop again today to change all the rubber linings on the doors and windows (no choice but to try this method now since already tried every possible solution) Will keep you guys updated again and hopefully this problem ends with this solution.

Best Regards.

 

[johnchen]

Hi Spencer,

Sapura Auto wanted to charge me RM700+ to change the door seals. After some negotiations, they waived it as the complain was lodged way before my 2 yr warranty ran out. Let me know how much they charge you.

By the way, some of the noise was addressed with the door rubber lining change but the creaking noise from the driver side door is still there when taking sharp corners and going over uneven road. Will send it to your workshop one of these days. Could very well be the door striker plate.

Cheers!
John Chen

 

[SpencerE60]

Hi Spencer,

Sapura Auto wanted to charge me RM700+ to change the door seals. After some negotiations, they waived it as the complain was lodged way before my 2 yr warranty ran out. Let me know how much they charge you.

By the way, some of the noise was addressed with the door rubber lining change but the creaking noise from the driver side door is still there when taking sharp corners and going over uneven road. Will send it to your workshop one of these days. Could very well be the door striker plate.

Cheers!
John Chen

Hi John,

The supervisor says that it's not advisable to change the door rubber seals since the rubbers are still in good condition. He told me that since the noices are coming from the window panel (I told him that when I wind down the window a little, the noice dissappears), just try changing the window's rubber linings and see what happens. My car's noices appears mostly in the morning but will soften in the afternoon and almost dissappears at night, weird! Initially the noices are gone after they re-align the doors and applied something to the door seal rubbers but it came back last week in those few really hot days. Now that leaves me no choice but to try changing the window seals

Well, they charge me RM1,093 for the materials and labour (labour cost is RM180) for 4 windows which now I have to wait few weeks since there's no stocks available and have to be ordered from Germany.

What do you think? Should I change all the door seals too (which is on the doors and the body)? which they told me was estimated about RM450+ per door (seal lining on the door and also the body), if I did not hear wrongly.

Please advice, since you have more experience in this.

Best Regards.

 

[nazliimm]

It's not just E60, it happens to new Z4.

Any recommendation?

 

[Ennui78]

It's not just E60, it happens to new Z4.

Any recommendation?

And the E90 too. And also the E66 I used to drive. And my friend's X3 the day she got it..... it is unfortunately, a common problem in all Beemers.

It used to be a common occurrence after a certain number of years but I notice it happening a lot more in new cars in the last 5 years. You can put it down to the old adage of, "They don't make 'em like they used to.".

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the SC to find solutions to problems faced by drivers. If cars are under warranty, they should be fixed without any questions asked. Excuses like, "It's like that la"; "It happens quite a lot to all BMW models" must not be accepted. Quality Control and Standards of Materials have obviously slipped somewhat. And it is also obvious that this may or may not be due to the fact that customers like ourselves, accept these excuses and well, just plod along and go away quietly. So basically, unless their service centres are filled with customers highlighting their car-issues, nothing gets done.

The moral of the story is, if your car is under warranty, complain and insist that issues be addressed/redressed.