BMW Innovation Days 28th-29th AUGUST 2010

[ALBundy]

For all BMWs, if your fender gap for both front and rear is the same, that means its wrong. You have too much lift at the rear and CG is moved forward, hence car will suffer understeer.

Rear lift up means less grip and it will oversteer instead.

Front end lift is quite well documented in forums pertaining to the e90/92 335i.. I can concur that the 335i on standard Sport spec suspension does feel jittery and unplanted,more so at high speeds.
I do notice that on standard Sport spec cars,the front fender gap is noticeably bigger than the rear,which becomes even more evident when u have rear passengers.This increases the amount of air that gets under the car.Ever wonder why the front splitters of racing cars are so low,so much so that under some conditions they softly scrape the tarmac.

I'm still looking for solutions for this.Guys in the US and the UK hv tried some solutions to varying degrees of success.More research..more research.

I doubt it has anything to do with the fender gap as it does not affect the air flow, more to do with the front end/nose of the car as you correctly pointed out race cars have front splitters that are so low to minimise air flow underneath the car and hence increases the air velocity (most of the ///M cars have the undercarriage covers to further smoothen the air flow), if I remember correctly it's Bernoulli's Principle.

Cheers

 

[supergripen]

Rear lift up means less grip and it will oversteer instead.



I doubt it has anything to do with the fender gap as it does not affect the air flow, more to do with the front end/nose of the car as you correctly pointed out race cars have front splitters that are so low to minimise air flow underneath the car and hence increases the air velocity (most of the ///M cars have the undercarriage covers to further smoothen the air flow), if I remember correctly it's Bernoulli's Principle.

Cheers

I think a combination of having a working front splitter and also a more appropriate stance should work in reducing front end lift at high speeds.Minimizing and smoothening of underbody airflow creates an area of low pressure under the car which in turn gives better grip and stability by basically 'sucking' the car onto the road surface.This as u rightly pointed out is Bernoulli's.. what is done is basically the reverse of what is being done on an airplane's aerofoil section,which instead creates and area of low pressure over the wing's surface,thus creating lift.

 

[astroboy]

.. On the second part regarding too much lift at the rear/CG moved forward on BMWs,can u provide a link to prove the fact?? Would make a very interesting read.Thanx for sharing.

hehe... I'm just exercising common sense science. Just like carrying a fridge, if the front fella is shorter, the load will be on him..

Meanwhile, please check thru the following.. fully height adjustable KW V2, alignment job in SC using KDS, with weight ballast placed in the car, RM350 job, pay attention to the bottom figure, "Ride height"

Tot I'll share the measurement printout from BMW's KDS II machine from my last alignment there. Can't figure out what some of the figures mean, but the significant part was the drive not the figures

Rear Axle:
Camber -1:38
Toe + 0.09
Total Toe +0.18
Geometrical driving axis 0.00

Front Axle:
Castor 20deg: +7.13
Cross Castor: +0:01
Toe out on turns: -2:01
Cross Toe out on turns: +0.02
Camber: -0:54
Cross Camber + 0:10
Individual Toe : 0:05
Total Toe: +0.11

Tyre Pressures:
Rear 2.4
Front 2.2

Tyre Depth:
8mm (all 4)

Ride Height:
Ride Heignt Rear: +577mm
Ride Height Front: +587mm

Left out the individual readings between right and left as they were similar.

So regardless of the quantum in height, if you decided to slam the ride down, make sure the front ground clearance remain 10mm lower than the rear to retain the suspension and CG geometry of the E90.

 

[ALBundy]

That's one thing I noticed with new and newer BMWs, less camber but more castor on the front, from E36 to E46 to E90. Some E90s I saw in MPS auto even had less than 0.5 -ve camber.

 

[astroboy]

That's why all the E90 front tyre makan luar!

 

[ALBundy]

That's why all the E90 front tyre makan luar!

For u buggers, 1.5 -ve camber would be nice. Open up the three screws and see whether can be adjusted or not. E36 and E46 cant be adjusted, but on the ///M3 can adjust to -2ve! The holes are oval, just remove the safety nipple (which I saw on the E90 also) and adjust.

 

[initialM]

The holes are oval, just remove the safety nipple (which I saw on the E90 also) and adjust.

Wah yr BMW got holes & nipple arr??:top:

 

[supergripen]

That's one thing I noticed with new and newer BMWs, less camber but more castor on the front, from E36 to E46 to E90. Some E90s I saw in MPS auto even had less than 0.5 -ve camber.

Yup..my fronts hv minimal -ve camber,not sure the exact figure.Done at GS Auto.Feels pretty good.

If I'm not mistaken,increased castor means better steering responsiveness.Had my Subaru installed with Whiteline's castor kit and the difference was eye opening.

Still on the lookout for Eibach Pro-Kits specific for my Sport spec e90.

 

[Barbarian]

I've received an invitation for Sept's Innovation day... anyone going?

 

[docrayboy]

I've booked myself in for the 330pm drive with the one and only 135i next Sunday at Quill. Ms Lai Kar is the person at Quill arranging the bookings. Just call her up-very pleasant lady.0379556333. She tells me we will drive to Shah Alam Stadium then there's Drivers Training modules there round the track.-all free of course, as was in Glenmarie and Sg Besi-also unlimited food and drinks for those not fasting. So, don't delay, make your bookings and then...Gentlemen(and Gentleladies).... start your engines!

 

[docrayboy]

I've booked myself in for the 330pm drive with the one and only 135i next Sunday at Quill. Ms Lai Kar is the person at Quill arranging the bookings. Just call her up-very pleasant lady.0379556333. She tells me we will drive to Shah Alam Stadium then there's Drivers Training modules there round the track.-all free of course, as was in Glenmarie and Sg Besi-also unlimited food and drinks for those not fasting. So, don't delay, make your bookings and then...Gentlemen(and Gentleladies).... start your engines!

Went for the Quill Innovation Day today...the 135i is ...alright....prefer the 335i...don't really like the appearance of the short boot...not too unlike the new Proton Saga from behind, if you ask me. Of course you get that big powerful engine, but i don't know if i can live with that always-frantic-pace-on feel when you bring the car for day to day driving.

At the Shah Alam stadium carpark, we did two modules. The first was Brake and Swerve. The second was Slalom Driving. I hear the event in Penang is going to be a joint event with Mini Coopers. So, all you 007-wannabes can sign up to do the Agent Stop and impress your 008 female agent friends.
Next week Innovation day,I hear, goes to Ipoh.

Everybody reads this forum! docrayboy wrote the last post...they all know I wrote about their innovation day at Quill....spoke with the very nice lady called Ms Crystalle Lai, their Marketing Manager who promptly introduced me to Mr Aris aka aletigermo on this forum...he organises all the BMW events through his company Orcavie Events. Aris pointed out to Crystalle just yesterday about my post teling people to call in to book thier slots.

Come September its another Innovation Day at Ingress Mutiara!

 

[astroboy]

So u going AGAIN?!

 

[stanleycck]

Doc......if u love the slalom and senget2 between the cones.......sign up for the driver training........2 sessions in Oct........:top:

 

[docrayboy]

So u going AGAIN?!

Yeah bro...gonna drive up to Penang for that one! It'll be a blast...show you my Agent Stop in the Borneo Rainforest carpark the next time we have a TT!

 

[stanleycck]

Yeah bro...gonna drive up to Penang for that one! It'll be a blast...show you my Agent Stop in the Borneo Rainforest carpark the next time we have a TT!

The Penang session will be at Batu Kawan Stadium.......I believe that it will be held during the long weekend in conjunction with National Day..........

 

[ALBundy]

Yeah bro...gonna drive up to Penang for that one! It'll be a blast...show you my Agent Stop in the Borneo Rainforest carpark the next time we have a TT!

Someone showed you AGENT STOP already?????:top:

 

[docrayboy]

Someone showed you AGENT STOP already?????:top:

It'll be at the Penang Innovation Day end of this month,Kah Keen, when they will also have the Mini Coopers to drive along with the BMWs.

 

[docrayboy]

Agent Stop Video!!

Someone showed you AGENT STOP already?????:top:

http://kyspeaks.com/2010/07/28/mini-driver-training-this-is-how-you-do-an-agent-turn/

You were there! Can see you in the pic!

 

[docrayboy]

Someone showed you AGENT STOP already?????:top:

Pray tell..how do we do it Albundy? Reverse fast...slam on the brakes then whip the steering round? Off DTC at the same time?

 

[docrayboy]

So u going AGAIN?!

I live for Innovation Days!...Nothing else matters..rememebr that Nivarna song?