Water done, Toll done , how about Electricity ??

[fabianyee]

Like I say earlier, who want a rubbish bin near their home?? The technology available nowadays surpass the ISO14001 requirement. Emission of dust/ash can be reduced to 0.01% with ESP (Electrostatic Precipitator) having an efficiency of 99.99%. Fuel gas of carbon Monoxide and Sulphuric dioxide emitted thru the chimney can be reduce to minimum level with system like FGD Plant (Flue Gas Desulphurization) plant.

Ash can be recovered for use for the production of cement.

But like I say, who want a GIAGANTIC rubbish bin situated near their home.

Good to know that the incinerator idea is a workable one. You emphasised on the 'rubbish bin' situation, but how about the current situation of the landfill problem? Doesn't landfill require more landspace to bury the sold waste and requires more time for the waste to bio-degrade, not to mention that new landfills need to be opened to managed the waste brought in day in, day out??? And I do think that we throw more rubbish than we have the landfills to bury them.. So wouldn't the incinerator be a better alternative than multiple smelly landfills?? Rubbish brought into the center, gets burnt after some processing. Heat generated to power the turbine.

Something like the vehicle turbo system, exhaust gas (waste product) spins the turbine to force induce the intake system and gets more horsepower...

Anyway, since I'm only a layman commenting from the sideline, there must be some stumbling block to this garbage incinerator cum powerplant idea. Location wise, it can be out of residential area. (Not that the current landfills are that near
to residential areas anyway.)

However, the success of this incinerator idea depends on whether any manual filtering needs to be done to the waste or can burn anything that the trucks bring in. If the rubbish needs to be manually handled (like separating out the metal or plastic) then it may not be the ideal solution to be implemented. Too much time would be on sorting out the garbage instead of burning them straight away.

Nevertheless, it does present itself to be a viable alternative since we will always have household waste to dispose off and less and less landfills to throw them into.

 

[Iqlima]

yes but most of the power station in Malaysia are operating on coal firing or LNG. Most of the oil firing power station are put in cold storage.

Petronas supply the LNG with 1/3 of global current price for IPPs.Petronas (government) absorb but when come to negotiation , capatalism not back up but ask more !Wrong ?

 

[Iqlima]

I think the report is a bit flawed. The founding member of IPP does not included Malakoff.. Please refer to this site for more info on IPP in Malaysia.

http://www.penjanabebas.com.my/www/generator/index.php/publish/page/start

Iqlima : Malakof and Segari is related

AND what will happen IF we did not have the 1997 crisis?

Iqlima : TNB for long time before the crisis ask government to put a plan for electricity demand, but for "hidden" reason EPU decide to hold,TNB even bought a land in Trengganu but later been told by EPU to give up to tycoon company.Who on the surface to blame when crisis happen rather than obvious ? Why Ani Arope opinion leave aside ?

From one source said TNB net profit for 2005 is RM1.5 billion. TNB payment to one of the IPP alone when it fully operational is 1.2 to 1.5 billion. Who going to pay the others IPPs !

NLDC located a bit on hill at Bangsar ( about 200 meter from UM KL gate), and if they allow you to go to top floor where the control centre monitoring system
located, guys there will tell you it will take another generation to fully utilise excess power. Have you ever see how bright Putrajaya from top !

 

[Iqlima]

Not all IPP enjoy the same rates. The late comer do not have the same good deal.

The 1 st 4 IPP have deal that is "premium rate" but only limited to certain plant and output. Please take note they accuired some of the TNB plant later but at a different rate.

YTL proudly say in their website

First IPP in Malaysia to have 100% domestic funding

The project cost totals some M$4.3b, was wholly M$-financed, which was thought impossible at that time due to the project's sheer size. But YTLP secured a M$1.5b 10% 15-year bond from the Employees Provident Fund (EPF) and a M$1.16b floating rate 15- year credit facility from a consortium of banks at BLR+1.5%.


Sucker !

 

[jarance]

YTL proudly say in their website

First IPP in Malaysia to have 100% domestic funding

The project cost totals some M$4.3b, was wholly M$-financed, which was thought impossible at that time due to the project's sheer size. But YTLP secured a M$1.5b 10% 15-year bond from the Employees Provident Fund (EPF) and a M$1.16b floating rate 15- year credit facility from a consortium of banks at BLR+1.5%.


Sucker !

At least we know some of our EPF money is earning 10% interest and coming back.

 

[jarance]

Iqlima : Malakof and Segari is related

!

Malakoff have a 40% stake in Kapar Power Station which was 100% previously owned by TNB. So by having a share, Malakoff and TNB are also related.

In fact most of the "later" IPP are related to TNB coz most of the Power Station used to belong to TNB.

Hence by association, TNB is also an IPP related.

 

[jarance]

From one source said TNB net profit for 2005 is RM1.5 billion. TNB payment to one of the IPP alone when it fully operational is 1.2 to 1.5 billion. Who going to pay the others IPPs !

When Tanjung Bin Power Station come online in 2006 and is fully operational in 2007, the output capacity is 2100 MW. This output capacity is almost the same as Kapar Power Station which consist of 3 phases. Kapar Power Station have been in service since 1985.

So it is not usually to be paid for selling 2100MW X 24Hr X 365 days.

From the profit that TNB make when they sell the power produced by existing IPP.

eg.. TNB make a profit of 1.5 billion selling 10,000,000 GWHr. So TNB is going to make a profit of 3.0 billion selling 20,000,000 GWHr.

The question is who is going to buy all this power which is the topic of this thread. In the case of supply exceed the demand, then the price will come down (hopefully). Just like durian price will come down when there is glut.

Singapore used to have Power Station under their direct control. They have "privatise" all their power stations. All power station are considered as IPP. Each power station produced power and sell it to the grid. They will "poll" the cost and sell accordingly. The power station will be paid according to how much they "poll".

Polling is termed as how much you intend to sell your product. So assummed that I want to buy 100 durians. If there are only 30 durian supply by 3 company, then they can sell it at a high price. But of, course, if the price is too high, I can import the durian from another country. Now if another company comes into the picture and say that he got 50 durian to sell as well. What happen now is that you have 140 durian available but you need only 100 durians. Here, you have a case where you can say I will buy from the company who sell the cheapest. The beauty is that if the durian is BAD, then you can buy the durian from the next cheapest price and charge the difference to the company who sell you the bad durian.

 

[Iqlima]

The question is who is going to buy all this power which is the topic of this thread. In the case of supply exceed the demand, then the price will come down (hopefully). Just like durian price will come down when there is glut.


Iqlima: Where is the technology in this world exist where we can store the excess supply currently claim by TNB ? Battery size of this country !

The issue is when first wave IPPs , (2nd wave got different treat as TNB learn).When goverment give licences ( without proper validation) and allow them to make such "premium profit" again on citizen EPF fund (some), where is your guts ask citizen to pay more ?

 

[Iqlima]

Malakoff have a 40% stake in Kapar Power Station which was 100% previously owned by TNB. So by having a share, Malakoff and TNB are also related.

In fact most of the "later" IPP are related to TNB coz most of the Power Station used to belong to TNB.

Hence by association, TNB is also an IPP related.

Well the second wave IPPs have not get anymore "premium" which still enjoy by first IPP's. Wonder why YTL not so much interested on big P.Plant anymore. Malakof will become the premier soon ?

 

[jarance]

Power produced by power station are AC currect. Battery can stored only DC supply. There is no such device that can stored this excess energy.

But the power station can be operated at 75% capacity with a spinning reserve of 25% for Coal and Oil Firing power Station. Unlike Gas turbine they can only operate at 100% capacity with 0% reserve. The spinning reserve can be utilised for PEAK load demand when office or factory come online.

Previously, TNB have rely heavily on oil firing power station. Kapar was the first power station in Malaysia where it operated on triple fuel. i.e. oil, coal and LNG. This mean that which ever fuel is cheapest it can still operate. However, the supply of LNG supply by Petronas is not enough to operate Kapar power station continously. Hence the next cheapest fuel was coal as TNB also have a share in a coal mine in Indonesia. Oil of is out of the question because of the relatively high cost.

Secondly, most of the Power station own by TNB are near its lifespan. It need to be rehabit or else it not worth operating its at it low efficiency. In fact, PD is now being rehab due to its expiry of its lifespan. Silimarly, plant like Connaght Bridge, Iskandar Power and Pasir Gudang power station are relatively old power station. They need to be decommisioned and rehab in stages and make way for the new and more effecient Power station.

 

[jarance]

Well the second wave IPPs have not get anymore "premium" which still enjoy by first IPP's. Wonder why YTL not so much interested on big P.Plant anymore. Malakof will become the premier soon ?

I don't know whether YTL is interested or not. You have to ask Mr. Francis about it..

No, Malakoff is not going to be a premier but will become one of the player. Janamajung Power is also operating a power station of similar capacity. BUT TNB is the premier.

 

[jarance]

i think I have already comment too much on this thread.

BTW, I have neither work for TNB or IPP or Spore Govt but I have been around..

When your house is in darkness, think about me..

 

[Iqlima]

i think I have already comment too much on this thread.

BTW, I have neither work for TNB or IPP or Spore Govt but I have been around..

When your house is in darkness, think about me..

It never too much , appreciate the healthy input and nobody right or wrong as well .

Cheers

 

[affan66]

nice to know info covered very balanced.

it ain't easy to sort out screw ups.

 

[safrul]

hmmm Ir jarance comments very good. How u know all this? respect ! http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/member.php?u=21