Flipping the pages of my Sunday Star newspaper to my favorite column "Turbo Blues" by Daddy Fixit this morning, I notice an interesting comment about engine oils under the letter "Keeping it topped up". Those of u still hving dis edition, can refer the full version on page 17 of the StarMag insert. Anyway for those of you who've always wondered about when iz the rite mileage to change oil, here's my contribution to the enigma, I'm posing an extract from Daddy Fixit's comments. I hope dis may provide a panacea:"Although manufacturers of synthetic oil claim that one can easily cover 20,000km to 30,000km in between oil changes, nonetheless, it would be advisable to carry out an oil change at a much shorter mileage interval. Most of us feel comfortable with a 10,000km oil change interval, although the feasibility and economics of an oil change at 5,000km is debatable these days and especially so on a new engine. The oil filter removes suspended particulates from the oil and in cases where conventional mineral oil is used, most of the particulates is soot, arising from oxidation of the engine oil itself. Synthetic oil tolerates extremely high temperatures and when it does oxidise (burn], it does so without leaving any ash or soot particles.When an engine is new, there is little clearance between pistons and cylinder walls and so virtually no "blow by" to contaminate the engine oil.Assuming your engine is new and it does not consume any engine oil, you could comfortably travel from one oil change to another without topping up your engine oil. However, this does leave you with a small chance that you could run low low on engine oil should one of the oil seals on the engine decide to spring a small leak..." :unsure:
In Search of the Right Engine Oil...
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There will be differing opinion from every one you talk to as each will have different experiences under different situations (& even engines).
If there is one right answer, its should be ..... whatever works for you, your engine, your wallet & your satisfaction.
If there is one right answer, its should be ..... whatever works for you, your engine, your wallet & your satisfaction.
ALBundy
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I do agree with what KC has mentioned.
Much has been said, at the end of the day its your personal choice. To spend 280 dollars (synthetic oil) + filter +labour for an oil change or RM 80 is entirely you decision. Some may feel deservedly so, some may not.
As for oil change interval, plenty of stories as well. The general sentiment is this, oils will last up to 30,000kms easily, but not the filter (apparently oil filter technology has not make any advancement over the years, still using similar material) and hence if you wanna save some $$$, just replace the filter every 5000km and change your oils every 10,000km.
As for me, I change the oil and filter when there is one green bar left on the service indicator (sometimes its 6000km, sometimes 8000km depends on my driving mood on that particular period) and I periodically check my dipstick and monitor the oil condition.
Rgds
Al
Much has been said, at the end of the day its your personal choice. To spend 280 dollars (synthetic oil) + filter +labour for an oil change or RM 80 is entirely you decision. Some may feel deservedly so, some may not.
As for oil change interval, plenty of stories as well. The general sentiment is this, oils will last up to 30,000kms easily, but not the filter (apparently oil filter technology has not make any advancement over the years, still using similar material) and hence if you wanna save some $$$, just replace the filter every 5000km and change your oils every 10,000km.
As for me, I change the oil and filter when there is one green bar left on the service indicator (sometimes its 6000km, sometimes 8000km depends on my driving mood on that particular period) and I periodically check my dipstick and monitor the oil condition.
Rgds
Al
AL,
How u get yr service lights reset?? U hv the reset tool made, or yr mech hv it?? Heard plenty ppl talk of "shorting" the dianostic tool in the engine bay, but no one seems to know how to exactly.
From what i learn, it is the best to follow the service lights as AL does, the OBC actually calculates it from the way the engine is driven. So its better to listen to the OBC (doctor) that is monitoring the heart of yr car.
My 2 cents.
PS. How do i get to add yr names to the quotes above har??
Gents, I think it's clear as daylight dat in de end, it boils down to the consumer's personal choice but perhaps this is not the reason why we put so much effort in discussing/ debating & sharing.
I'd like to think that a big part of getting on dis forum is not just to find out more but also to explore new areas of thinking to help us make better decisions, for purchasing or otherwise.
What I've been trying to explore is dis enigma of 'which is the right oil' not only for whom, but also why & on what basis is the rationale made - so it's not about personal choices. Unless it's impulse buying, personal choices are usually precipitates of rationale & not the other way around.
But for now I think we hav put in quite a bit already to make it easier for all forum-ers to choose the oil they want. Nevertheless, I think more can done.
F'instance, how much better can the viscosity of synthetic oils be over that of minerals if both carry the same rating of say, 20W-50? Here we want to try (if we can] & debunk what may be thot as the myth that synthetics flow better than mineral oils at 100 degres C.
Or putting it another way, if synthetics flow better than mineral at 150 degrees C, why rate them both the same at 100 degrees C? :blink:
I'd like to think that a big part of getting on dis forum is not just to find out more but also to explore new areas of thinking to help us make better decisions, for purchasing or otherwise.
What I've been trying to explore is dis enigma of 'which is the right oil' not only for whom, but also why & on what basis is the rationale made - so it's not about personal choices. Unless it's impulse buying, personal choices are usually precipitates of rationale & not the other way around.
But for now I think we hav put in quite a bit already to make it easier for all forum-ers to choose the oil they want. Nevertheless, I think more can done.
F'instance, how much better can the viscosity of synthetic oils be over that of minerals if both carry the same rating of say, 20W-50? Here we want to try (if we can] & debunk what may be thot as the myth that synthetics flow better than mineral oils at 100 degres C.
Or putting it another way, if synthetics flow better than mineral at 150 degrees C, why rate them both the same at 100 degrees C? :blink:
fabianyee
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Let's just say sometimes different oil with the same indicative viscocity rating do perform differently from brand to brand. so it's a matter of trying out oils to see which suits ur engine better.... Every brand will claim something about their oil. And don't think going into in depth technical details would really helps unless the test results are from the same INDEPENDENT test for all the oils in question.
IMHO, I'd prefer to get feedbacks from users of different brands and consider end user's recommendation and complement with some basic study of the oil you're interested to get..
IMHO, I'd prefer to get feedbacks from users of different brands and consider end user's recommendation and complement with some basic study of the oil you're interested to get..
I suppose the eternal question will always be "is synthetic 'better' than mineral". Advocates for each will defend thier position but as consumer, it's up to us to choose.
As for 2cents question, the standard for measuring oil viscosities (kinematics) are done at 40C & 100C, so all datas are at these temp (click here). I normally look at the higher temp (100C) to get an idea of how it behaves when the engine has warm up. Note that its "an idea of how it behaves", ie theoretical but in practicality, it maybe totally different to my expectations (due to other factors in the oil. eg. additives)
One thing we have to remember is that for SAE 50 rating, the 100C kinematic range is roughly 17-21. Hence, a 'thinner' viscosity of 17 is still the same SAE 50 as a 'thicker' viscosity of 21 (though in reality, we probably wont 'feel' the difference). But an oil which is rated 16 (hence SAE 40) will probably be no different than one that is rated 17 (hence SAE 50). That's why I always want to know the kinematics rather than just look at the SAE ratings.
Bear in mind also, the viscosity index (ie. rate of change of viscosity) is better with synthetics vs. mineral, thus, in theory, a synthetic will retains it's viscosity rating better than a mineral.
Again, we are just looking at one factor in the equation. From my (limited) experience, I find that mineral tends to 'feel sluggish' at around 3.5K-4.5K but a synthetic 'feels sluggish' at around 7.5K-8.5K. However, I have heard Q8 semi synthetic last almost as long as the synthetic (impressive to say the least) but I will cont. to use the full synthetic.
Why synthetic for me? Because:
1. it's convenient for me (10K service vs. twice 5K service)
2. I dont mind paying the difference
3. the synthetic base oil can withstand longer service interval (due to better VI)
4. with less oil service, indirectly I'm trying to reduce waste oil pollution
Lastly, I agree with what Fabian said. We try to gauge each other's experience & satisfaction & from there, decide to give it a try (or not).
If not happy with Brand XYZ, then change until you find one that works for you & your car.
As for 2cents question, the standard for measuring oil viscosities (kinematics) are done at 40C & 100C, so all datas are at these temp (click here). I normally look at the higher temp (100C) to get an idea of how it behaves when the engine has warm up. Note that its "an idea of how it behaves", ie theoretical but in practicality, it maybe totally different to my expectations (due to other factors in the oil. eg. additives)
One thing we have to remember is that for SAE 50 rating, the 100C kinematic range is roughly 17-21. Hence, a 'thinner' viscosity of 17 is still the same SAE 50 as a 'thicker' viscosity of 21 (though in reality, we probably wont 'feel' the difference). But an oil which is rated 16 (hence SAE 40) will probably be no different than one that is rated 17 (hence SAE 50). That's why I always want to know the kinematics rather than just look at the SAE ratings.
Bear in mind also, the viscosity index (ie. rate of change of viscosity) is better with synthetics vs. mineral, thus, in theory, a synthetic will retains it's viscosity rating better than a mineral.
Again, we are just looking at one factor in the equation. From my (limited) experience, I find that mineral tends to 'feel sluggish' at around 3.5K-4.5K but a synthetic 'feels sluggish' at around 7.5K-8.5K. However, I have heard Q8 semi synthetic last almost as long as the synthetic (impressive to say the least) but I will cont. to use the full synthetic.
Why synthetic for me? Because:
1. it's convenient for me (10K service vs. twice 5K service)
2. I dont mind paying the difference
3. the synthetic base oil can withstand longer service interval (due to better VI)
4. with less oil service, indirectly I'm trying to reduce waste oil pollution
Lastly, I agree with what Fabian said. We try to gauge each other's experience & satisfaction & from there, decide to give it a try (or not).
If not happy with Brand XYZ, then change until you find one that works for you & your car.
ALBundy
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Just get a wire and short pin no 7. To be safe, buy a resistor to be used with the wire, this will ensure the current flow is minimal. If normal oil reset, set the ignition key to on, short the wire from the cap to the body for 4-5 secs, if to reset inspection service, short for more than 9 secs.
P/S Its always a myth that engine oil cant last for long. Petronas chemists have publicly said mineral oil can even last up to 35,000km, problem is the oil will be contaminated with dirt by then. So, the theory of having more frequent oil change (if using mineral oil) is not valid in my opinion.
I have been using Mobil 1 fully syn for over a year but last month, I noticed that my engine was rough ( used about 10,000 km with one service bar left). Checked the dipstick and found that at least 2 litres were missing ( dipstick was dry !!). Funny, checked my parking lot and found no signs of oil leaking. However when the car was hoisted up, noticed that there are signs of oil in a few places.
Anyway, decided to change to something thicker (Hi Rev - no choice as that is all Heritage sells) as I heard that for older vehicles, it is better to use thicker oil.
So far after one month, been checking dipstick and it appears to be OK.
But I met up wth a Castrol salesman over CNY and according to him, other than the major brands, most are actually from the same manufacturer - they just ask another manufacturer to change the packaging and sell it as their own brand. He then pointed out a few makes and believe it or not, the containers look exactly the same with with different branding. Must be some truth in that.
Anyway, decided to change to something thicker (Hi Rev - no choice as that is all Heritage sells) as I heard that for older vehicles, it is better to use thicker oil.
So far after one month, been checking dipstick and it appears to be OK.
But I met up wth a Castrol salesman over CNY and according to him, other than the major brands, most are actually from the same manufacturer - they just ask another manufacturer to change the packaging and sell it as their own brand. He then pointed out a few makes and believe it or not, the containers look exactly the same with with different branding. Must be some truth in that.
I've found ans. to many questns. on engine oils at: www.bmwe30.net
If u wan to find out mor, go 2 der site, look for
Articles & Tips > Misc & Useful Info > Making Sense of Synthetic Lubricants.
If u wan to find out mor, go 2 der site, look for
Articles & Tips > Misc & Useful Info > Making Sense of Synthetic Lubricants.
fabianyee
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ALBundy
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Wow..such a strong stench of sacarsm :yahoo:
My mistake, thought you were referring to engine rpm when I quoted you when its the mileage you were talking about :blink:
Being rich or poor and which model you drive doesnt matter, as long as your wallet and bank account are full with $$$. :rofl:
As for being technically superior, I don't think so. There are many out there who knows a lot more than me, of course being an engineer helps a lot in understanding basic principles and also having the experience of modding my own car. But of course, there are many like some said, theory experts who only reads plenty from the internet and books, offering ill advised suggestions which I cant stand.
AS for oil usage, I never doubt the superiority of synthetic over mineral oil. However, my contention has always been that the additional benefits that comes with the superiority are not needed in our daily driven cars and hence no need to waste the extra expenditure.
My 2 cents of opinion.
My mistake, thought you were referring to engine rpm when I quoted you when its the mileage you were talking about :blink:
Being rich or poor and which model you drive doesnt matter, as long as your wallet and bank account are full with $$$. :rofl:
As for being technically superior, I don't think so. There are many out there who knows a lot more than me, of course being an engineer helps a lot in understanding basic principles and also having the experience of modding my own car. But of course, there are many like some said, theory experts who only reads plenty from the internet and books, offering ill advised suggestions which I cant stand.
AS for oil usage, I never doubt the superiority of synthetic over mineral oil. However, my contention has always been that the additional benefits that comes with the superiority are not needed in our daily driven cars and hence no need to waste the extra expenditure.
My 2 cents of opinion.
from personal experience...
for more than 3 years my fpos was on Shell Helix Ultra. after every oil change at 7K intervals, can get the Shell feeling... ahhhh, sea breeze, white powdery sand, fresh air, engine smooth like shiit... then kena influence by some feller switch to Caltex Magnatex, drove out of workshop, i thought wtf man... what happen to the beach... totally lost that loving feeling... tiu... but i persevered with Magnatex for 2 more oil changes (bcos you know lah how sometimes technical people pusing story dem fark convincing. plus me tight budget also) and guess what... farking pangkor island came back at the last oil change before CNY!
looks like engine a bit like human... need some time to adjust to less good shiit. my fpos actually don't need to eat/drink and crap expensive shiit to deliver all that nice smooth little power it can when on synthetic oil.
for more than 3 years my fpos was on Shell Helix Ultra. after every oil change at 7K intervals, can get the Shell feeling... ahhhh, sea breeze, white powdery sand, fresh air, engine smooth like shiit... then kena influence by some feller switch to Caltex Magnatex, drove out of workshop, i thought wtf man... what happen to the beach... totally lost that loving feeling... tiu... but i persevered with Magnatex for 2 more oil changes (bcos you know lah how sometimes technical people pusing story dem fark convincing. plus me tight budget also) and guess what... farking pangkor island came back at the last oil change before CNY!
looks like engine a bit like human... need some time to adjust to less good shiit. my fpos actually don't need to eat/drink and crap expensive shiit to deliver all that nice smooth little power it can when on synthetic oil.
ALBundy
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I switched to something cheaper than Red Eagle hahahaha :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: . No need to wait three oil changes to get the "beach"effect. Engine still smooth as ever and up to the next oil change also no problemo. Best part is oil + filter + labour = 85 bucks! :yahoo:
