Foaming the chassis

[Lee36328]

Sounds good, Twin_Sparx. That's what we need - an objective analysis.

Things get blown out of proportion when egos and personalities get involved. But that's good. Shows that people are really passionate about their cars. Passion aside, what would be instructive would be facts and analysis.

And Necc, the vote you are talking about has been happening for some years already. Customers are voting all the time w their wallets. Free market, free choice.

 

[2cents]

Originally posted by Lee36328@Feb 15 2006, 10:04 AM
Sounds good, Twin_Sparx. That's what we need - an objective analysis.

Things get blown out of proportion when egos and personalities get involved. But that's good. Shows that people are really passionate about their cars. Passion aside, what would be instructive would be facts and analysis.

And Necc, the vote you are talking about has been happening for some years already. Customers are voting all the time w their wallets. Free market, free choice.

Passion, pedantry... the important thing to remember is not to insult other's views if we don't agree.

 

[Lee36328]

Originally posted by 2cents+Feb 15 2006, 10:14 AM-->QUOTE (2cents @ Feb 15 2006, 10:14 AM)

 

[Redd]

yay sparxy is here! phew! at least got some backup now. the questions were getting too hot for me to handle.

redd

 

[flash]

Originally posted by Redd@Feb 15 2006, 10:34 AM
yay sparxy is here! phew! at least got some backup now. the questions were getting too hot for me to handle.

redd

Erhh, getting ur fingers burnt? :nyehehe:

Well, waiting for sparx write-up....

 

[The Necessary]

Yeah, the voting has been going on for years, and there still isn't widespread acceptance of the product (look at VCool as a counterpoint). The market has spoken!

 

[travis_bickle]

This just about sums it up:

 

[The Necessary]

Aiyah, Sparx is wasting his time writing anything up. This Lee dude will defend his foaming till death do they part. He'll come up with reasons like his e36 is too old, it enhances active safety, etc., etc.. This, at the end of the day, is a matter of opinions, and not a matter of facts.

He has already foamed his car, from top to bottom, front to rear, you think he's going to accept that his car is now a death trap and he has wasted all his money? In addition to plummeting the value of his car in the 2nd/3rd hand market? Hello... Hell no!

Travis, nice doggie. Especially love the foam.

 

[E46Fanatic]

Who cares about personal agendas? Its very nice of Twin Spark to volunteer his expertise on this subject, and I doubt he'll give a ratsass if people try to defend what they have done to their rides...

 

[The Necessary]

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@Feb 15 2006, 03:40 AM
Who cares about personal agendas? Its very nice of Twin Spark to volunteer his expertise on this subject, and I doubt he'll give a ratsass if people try to defend what they have done to their rides...

You do have a point.

Just that I'm weary (a first!) of Lees' constant bickering. But you're right, this forum is for the greater good. Screw the individual and his opinions!

 

[Lee36328]

Originally posted by The Necessary@Feb 15 2006, 12:43 PM
...This, at the end of the day, is a matter of opinions, and not a matter of facts.

He has already foamed his car, from top to bottom, front to rear, you think he's going to accept that his car is now a death trap and he has wasted all his money? In addition to plummeting the value of his car in the 2nd/3rd hand market? Hello... Hell no!

....

DAMN! You mean my car is a deathtrap, and my resale value is down the toilet? OMG!

Err.. waitaminute... would you call this just your opinion, or indisputable fact?

If it's just your opinion, you are entitled to it, with due respect.

If it's fact, please back it up, which is the original direction of where this is going.

While colorful, unsubstantiated statements are entertaining and very much in character in this case, lets stick to facts at hand and let a mature discussion continue. Twin_Sparx, your analysis is most welcome. B)

 

[ALBundy]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[flash]

Ding ding, ROUND 2.... :rofl: :rofl: Ho hum.

 

[The Necessary]

Originally posted by Lee36328+Feb 15 2006, 03:51 AM-->QUOTE (Lee36328 @ Feb 15 2006, 03:51 AM)

 

[fabianyee]

***getting popcorns, bak kua, kueh kapit***

aiyah, intermission aledi.. Can't wait for next chapter..



On another note, I hope this online spat will just be here online.
No fist fight when comes drinking time...

Still can remember the interesting spat back then between The_NECC formerly known as WKC and eeric... However, they are good friends now.. hehhee.. Still good frens, I think..

 

[Jipster]

I think everyone who thinks this is about "I'm right and you're wrong" is actually missing the whole point of the post.

Mr. Lee has spent a pretty penny on foaming and thinks it is a good idea and has decided to share this with everyone here.

There are those who share his opinion and those who dont. Pretty standard for these kind of things. I mean there are also poeple who will swear that Bilstein is better than Koni.....

There are still others who present evidence/data to back up which way they are leaning. Also pretty standard I think. More power to them....

At the end of the day its up to you the reader/member to decide. Nobody's making anyone do anything here.

Why the strong words?

 

[Lee36328]

Originally posted by The Necessary@Feb 15 2006, 05:23 PM
Yup, that is indeed my opinion!

Just like how it is your opinion that your car now handles better, is safer, etc., etc..

OK, so let us let Twin Sparx come up with the FACTS.

Fabian, don't go anywhere, not intermission yet!

Necc,

To clarify,

1. My car handles better - is my humble opinion.

2. How foaming improves handling of a car - refer to this link, (posted earlier, reproduced here for convenience) for the humble opinion of SportCompactCar journalist Mike Kojima, engineer, racer, motorjournalist, and author of numerous automotive books
SportCompactCar - Project Nissan 300ZX: Part 5 :More Suspension Tweaks

3. My car is safer - to clarify, in case it is misunderstood:

Crumple zones - I agree and concede that foaming in the crumple zones may cause the car to crumple outside of manufacturer's tested parameters, especially foaming in the crumple zone. Necc, Redd, Twin_sparx, no arguments here from me. And fellow forumers, you may wish to think carefully before foaming the crumple zones; your choice. I foamed my car fully, which is well-documented here, and foamed another family car, a Toyota, only in the B-pillar and door sills (ye$, I can be cheap too.) Both cars benefitted in terms of handling and noise reduction, in my opinion.

My comment on improved safety refers to the fact that for ME personally, due to the unfortunate manner of my driving, anything that helps me control the car better at the limit is beneficial, and that also includes sports springs, shocks, performance tires, thicker anti-roll bars, struts bars, suspension mount (to name but a few), as well as chassis-foaming (or, learning from TS, BIW-foaming.) Of course, adding any of these elements immediately takes the car out of manufacturer's parameters.

Jips, harsh words? Par for the course. For light-saber-type action, autoworld is even more action-packed. k:

 

[Twin_Sparx]

Again, I would like to reiterate that I'm not being judgmental on this whole issue. Its simply from experience and knowledge gained from most structural engineers who have had the previlage to be working on crashworthiness.

Also, as most of this is confidential, I can only go so far as to give a brief overview. Most vehicle manufacturers have different approaches in designing their structures for crashworthiness.... and these are usually trade secrets.

A good and obvious example is Volvo with their boron-steel A-pillars....

AND, if you guys have been observant, check out the new range of BMWs - you'll consistently see a V-shaped cross-tube connecting the front shock towers to the cowl/dash panel. To the layman, it may seem like a connection to improve torsional rigidity - to our eyes, its also to enhance frontal crash performance.

Another trick BMW uses for lateral / side impact would be door catchers (a little L-shaped bracket on your door - go check it out!! ) - and a huge bulge on your front seat base, outboard side. Again, go check it out....very obvious in the 5. Coiincidentally, I thought up both this solutions for one of the cars I was involved in, THEN discovered BMW had it in the new 5 when it was launched!!! Not kidding!! Suppose it was merely a logically thing to do.

Anyway, this is NOT a matter of who's right and wrong.... or whether Bilsteins are better than Konis. No, no, no,its not a comparison, ok!

Anyway, I'll get down to it tonight as today has been a hectic day. :beaten: Hope to have stirred up some interest!

 

[Lee36328]

Stirred up some interest, are you kidding?

This is gripping stuff dude! I learnt a lot from your post above already.

Can't wait for the next part. And thanks for sharing. k:

 

[The Necessary]

Originally posted by Lee36328+Feb 15 2006, 05:15 AM-->QUOTE (Lee36328 @ Feb 15 2006, 05:15 AM)