Foaming the chassis

[Jipster]

Skar dude, EVERYTHING here makes sense as long as it is about CHOICE. It ceases to make sense if the element of CHOICE is removed.

It is every persons choice to accept, believe, reject etc. any of the opinions , even statements of fact made here.

 

[The Necessary]

After reading through the Autoworld thread and this thread again, I've picked up on something else; how foaming the car can 'magically' transform the handling; from understeer to no understeer; from no grip to limpet like grip; etc; etc.

Now, that's dangerous.

Things like understeer is built into the car (chassis/settings) to provide a margin of safety- to let you know when you have breached the limits. Now, after foaming, in addition to your crash structure becoming altered, your handling characteristics have been altered too! Or rather, of more concern is; will the vehicle react in the same way during emergency manouvers as it used to? Will the now 'higher limits' cause it to become, say, snappy and uncontrollable when the limits are breached?

So much to ponder.

Or maybe us non-foamers are just wussies!

 

[nikazwaa]

Originally posted by Lee36328@Feb 15 2006, 10:04 PM
I lurve this forum and its COMMITTEE! which allows a free discussion on foaming and any other topics. Kudos to the committee on this point. k:

It's an open discussion forum. Knock yourselves out!

But please practice self moderation and try not to discriminate any individual in particular. Thank you.

Back to topic.

 

[ALBundy]

From what I have learnt and experience, a stiffer chassis lessens grip and hence the oversteer.

 

[fabianyee]

Originally posted by The Necessary@Feb 16 2006, 09:46 AM
After reading through the Autoworld thread and this thread again, I've picked up on something else; how foaming the car can 'magically' transform the handling; from understeer to no understeer; from no grip to limpet like grip; etc; etc.

Now, that's dangerous.

Things like understeer is built into the car (chassis/settings) to provide a margin of safety- to let you know when you have breached the limits. Now, after foaming, in addition to your crash structure becoming altered, your handling characteristics have been altered too! Or rather, of more concern is; will the vehicle react in the same way during emergency manouvers as it used to? Will the now 'higher limits' cause it to become, say, snappy and uncontrollable when the limits are breached?

So much to ponder.

Or maybe us non-foamers are just wussies!

Yes stiffening up the chassis affect the handling characteristic of the car very much. Too stiff and the car would have snap oversteer. The chassis just won't flex when the body rolls during cornering.

Definitely not for uninitiated drivers. But in the hands of more seasoned drivers, it's the next-best-thing to driving nirvana without much added weight of additional chassis strenghtening material.

And for this group of drivers, crumple zone isn't the main priority. They know the compromises that came with it.

Actually, there shouldn't be so much of heated discussion on this matter. It's just the difference of needs/wants and priorities. Don't do it if u think u don't need it. Do it if u think u can handle the stiffer chassis (and the aftermath mod on the suspension). 'Wat mod?' u might ask. Having a stiffer chassis means having the suspension system working harder as the chassis would not flex as much after foaming. For that reason, ur suspension system need to be in good condition to feel the full effects of the stiffer chassis.

Would I do it? I would, I just need to find the time and some assistance to do it. And a spare car to use as I leave the car unused for at least 3 days for the foam to cure.

 

[fabianyee]

Originally posted by ALBundy@Feb 16 2006, 09:56 AM
From what I have learnt and experience, a stiffer chassis lessens grip and hence the oversteer.

The would depend how stiff is the chassis as it is and how much stiffer u want it to be.

Ur statement is only partially correct.

 

[The Necessary]

Originally posted by fabianyee+Feb 15 2006, 09:02 PM-->QUOTE (fabianyee @ Feb 15 2006, 09:02 PM)

 

[ALBundy]

Originally posted by fabianyee+Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM-->QUOTE (fabianyee @ Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM)

 

[flash]

Originally posted by ALBundy+Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM-->QUOTE (ALBundy @ Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM)

Originally posted by fabianyee@Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM

 

[fabianyee]

Originally posted by ALBundy+Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM-->QUOTE (ALBundy @ Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM)

Originally posted by fabianyee@Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM

 

[ALBundy]

Since you beg to differ, maybe you should tell from you experiences, if any. HOW Stiffening the chassis will increase your car's grip level 101...I am listening

 

[flash]

Originally posted by fabianyee+Feb 16 2006, 10:31 AM-->QUOTE (fabianyee @ Feb 16 2006, 10:31 AM)

Originally posted by ALBundy@Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by fabianyee@Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM

 

[ALBundy]

Originally posted by flash+Feb 16 2006, 02:31 AM-->QUOTE (flash @ Feb 16 2006, 02:31 AM)

Originally posted by ALBundy@Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by fabianyee@Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM

 

[The Necessary]

I think some caveats need to be inserted right about here.

1. The road surface and condition is important.

2. As is the camber, or lack of.

 

[ALBundy]

Hehehe :nyehehe: :nyehehe:

 

[flash]

Originally posted by ALBundy+Feb 16 2006, 10:33 AM-->QUOTE (ALBundy @ Feb 16 2006, 10:33 AM)

Originally posted by flash@Feb 16 2006, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by ALBundy@Feb 16 2006, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by fabianyee@Feb 16 2006, 02:05 AM

 

[fabianyee]

Originally posted by ALBundy@Feb 16 2006, 10:33 AM
Since you beg to differ, maybe you should tell from you experiences, if any. HOW Stiffening the chassis will increase your car's grip level 101...I am listening

The only stiffening I have done so far for my current ride is the front and rear strut bars. And that improved the level and grip significantly, not marginally. How much stiffer? I cant say cos I dont have ANY equipment to measure that.

That's my little sharing. What's your say on your adamant opinion that 'Any stiffening on the chassis WILL NOT increase the car's grip level. Period!!'
What are your experiences that led you to state that strong statement?

 

[ALBundy]

Putting in strut bars are merely stiffening up the suspension system, to prevent/minimise movement of the shock towers. Even if you could take a corner faster, does not mean the grip has increased! There is more to it. Similarly, bigger anti roll bar will lessen you car's grip. But then again, these are ALL suspension tweaks.

We are talking about chassis stiffening here!!!!!

 

[pussy]

wow.. 14 pages..

my input and results..
foaming the chassis.. well did it during the recent holidays..

handling ? my current suspension could not take it... on the fast road and sweeping corners...( based on my curent engine conversion, not before it B18 )

solution ? changed the springs and dampers... car handles much better and a firm ride.. 180km/h in sweeping corners to Bukit kayu hitam..

effects ? the road noise is reduced, going over humps is stiff and solid thud on the suspension..

if accident ? no idea, have to wait and see.. zoggee ? crash pilot ?


regards.

 

[Alvin]

Have to agree with Al that chasis stiffening will not increase grip.
Sway bars or strut bar are suspension tweaks. This is a good topic to banter out but keep it clean people.

Personnally i wouldnt foam my car chasis unless the place that does it can give me a xray of my cars structural chasis before & after foaming & gives a guaranttee that if they did not foam the agree area, they will pay for the car! hahah