bigger brakes option for E34

[MKMD428]

hi guys, I am looking for a bigger brakes for my E34.
the objective is having the looks and also the braking power. I fathom that an E34 540 or 530 is a direct bolt on to the E34 knuckle...however I am looking something out of the ordinary...buying a ready made brand new 4 pot seems so costly and it seems that I am only left with a couple of used brands. I am currently on Ac schnitzer type 2 right now and it seems that the clearance is well enough to fit a 4 pot brakes.

so the question is can we custom made or modify any big brakes with its disc (Brembos, Wilwood, Outlaw, etc....) to the E34 knuckle? I know that as usual it might need a custom made caliper bracket and disc that needs new holes to fit the the E34 knuckle...
so is there anything that I missed here? kind of tip or lookout that I need to pay attention?
My car is an E34 M50TU.

would be glad to here anyone who has done this before....

 

[Roberto]

I've done alot of research into this recently as I was chasing a brake issue.

You're probably unhappy with your brakes and are thinking of changing them.

There's really only one upgrade that someone with a 520 should do and that is to switch to 525 ventilated front discs and the bigger callipers that come with it.

I've checked everything else and it really doesn't make a difference if you have ABS brakes which the M50TU surely had. No matter how good your brakes, as soon as they locked up...the abs unit took over, and stopped the car in accordance with the ABS functioning (if you kept your brakes applied).

If you had much bigger and better brakes, you would get to the ABS lockup point faster, but after that it was basically ABS all the way. The time it takes you to get to the ABS lockup point would not be significantly changed, if you upgraded the brakes much.

So think of it as two stages to braking. The pre abs and post abs stage. Both stages combine to bring the car to a complete stop.

You can only affect the pre abs stage, and not the post abs. And the changes you make to the pre abs stage are not sizable enough to justify the huge costs involved.

This is a very backhanded way of saying that the stock braking system that came with the E34 was excellent out of the factory. You can't do much better than that. The E34 did hold the world stopping distance record (from 60-0mph) when it was introduced. I think that says alot about it.

So how do you improve your brakes? Three things, and all of them are well known.

1. Make sure your brake system components are in good shape. No leaks in brake lines and the master cylinder. No persistent fault codes on the ABS unit. Brake oil that is clean and is Dot4 at a minimum. Brake discs and pads that are not too thin. Brake discs are flat not warped. Brake hoses - make sure your stock hoses are in good shape or switch to steel braided brake hoses - this DOES NOT create better braking, but better braking feel alone. But that is nice and steel braided brake hoses cost the same as stock hoses. You can buy them on ebay for US$50 before shipping. Any brand will be fine.

2. Bleeding. Only use piston bleeding, even for single pot callipers. Don't use normal bleeding. Tyres need to be removed and a little more brake oil is required, but this removes ALL the dirty brake oil and mud that is frequently trapped right behind the piston and does not get removed easily.

3. Tyres. Tryes with good thread for braking, tyres which are not bald ie still well within tolerances, and tyres which have a fatter contact patch with the ground, improves braking.


Other than that, you will only need to get bigger brakes (callipers, pistons, brake pads, brake rotors), if your car became much heavier. This only happens if you swop in a much bigger, heavier engine typically. A heavier car requires more force to stop. Unless you are planning to upgrade to an M60 engine, you don't need to bother thinking about it. Even if you do, you should try out your car with the new engine first and see if it needs better braking. And you should only upgrade your brake hardware if your maintenance, brake system, and tyres are already in good shape and its still inadequate to the job.

Why switch to the 525 ventilated brakes ? Well, they are ventilated. This dissipates heat better. The 520 brakes were not ventilated. Hotter rotors lead to degraded braking. So the 525 rotors were a better form of basic technology to begin with as they were ventilated....so despite the outstanding stock braking system on the E34, its better to upgrade to those. And of course, since they are larger rotors, you need to get the bigger 525 front brake callipers as well.

In short....if you are not happy with your brakes, please look at your maintenance, tyres and piston bleeding first and foremost. Only when that is in good shape....and you are STILL unhappy with your brakes...then consider an upgrade.

And remember, brake kits can only help the pre-abs portion of the braking process. The post abs portion is really only affected by changes in the tyre patch and tyre thread. So its not worth the investment in a bbk. Most brake upgrades that make you happy - are only psychological. If you measured it in terms of physical braking distance you would not notice any proper difference. Of course, when a mechanic upgrades your brakes for you, he will change the brake oil, probably the brake hoses too, and do solid bleeding, and you are using new flat rotors and pads - which are that stuff that I feel actually improve your brakes. But of course we would think it was the bigger multi pot callipers etc that does it. And of course many mechanics will not tell you this if they are the ones selling the bbks to you.

It took me many years, alot of reading, experience, and consulting with both mechanics and forum buddies, and spending money on stuff that didn't really work when i checked carefully to arrive at this understanding. It took you ten minutes to read this post. I hope that helps.


Roberto

 

[MKMD428]

thanks roberto..
I forgot to mention specifically..my E34 originally was 520..it was upgraded to 525 M50TU along with the brakes...I've done all that you mentioned above and yet it seems my brakes aren't grip enough for me.

 

[anakin]

Good write up Roberto...myself bought a V8 caliper to "upgrade" my e34 525 braking...after surfing around Mr. google told me that the conversion will not improve much...and change to twin layer servo/bigger servo doesn't help either! End of the day, never install my v8 brakes....

p/s - what is piston bleeding? how?

thanks bro.

 

[Roberto]

Good write up Roberto...myself bought a V8 caliper to "upgrade" my e34 525 braking...after surfing around Mr. google told me that the conversion will not improve much...and change to twin layer servo/bigger servo doesn't help either! End of the day, never install my v8 brakes....

p/s - what is piston bleeding? how?

thanks bro.

.........................


Yeah, double brake servos etc only change the brake FEEL. The make practically no difference to the actually braking distance.

Of course, brake feel is important, but sort out your entire stock system and see if your brake feel is not satisfactory. Then just use steel braided hoses, the feel will be firmer. However, to emphasise again, braking distance will not change.

But you will like it better.

Piston bleeding is where you :

1. Open the bleeder nipple
2. Use a flat head screwdriver to push the piston back into the calliper OS you use the screwdriver to leverage the other side of the calliper, achieving the same effect.

All this while of course the brake fluid topup tank is in the fluid reservoir to replenish oil being lost through bleeding.

Mechanics don't like to do this because the wheel needs to be removed to get to the piston. And it takes a big more effort than the usual vacuum bleeding. Just tell them you'll pay them more for labour. Do not listen to their arguments that this is not necessary, that it is only done for multipot pistons. It is, and it makes a difference. Shut them up by saying you'll pay them more and just tell them to do it. Normal 4 wheel bleeding cost RM30, here, you can pay up to RM50 and its fair.

As mentioned, you'll need more brake fluid for this, as alot of dirty fluid will come out when you do the piston bleeding, and all that needs to be replaced with new fluid.

I first read about this here :

http://forums.bimmer...82#post27153982

Check out the photos and you will be sold. Tried it out, I had no bubbles on my system before and my oil was good, yet alot of dirt came out and the brakes were better after that.

If you are overhauling the callipers, changing the seals etc then this is not necessary of course.

 

[Roberto]

thanks roberto..
I forgot to mention specifically..my E34 originally was 520..it was upgraded to 525 M50TU along with the brakes...I've done all that you mentioned above and yet it seems my brakes aren't grip enough for me.

Your brake discs must not be wavy or warped. That screws the pads' grip on the surface.

Secondly, I've noticed certain brake discs are better than others. They maintain their straightness longer. All brake discs are very good for the first two weeks. The good ones last for months.

The best 525 discs to use will be brembo discs. The price is almost the same as stock, so I recommend that.

Brake pads - switch to ceramic brake pads. The stock ones are too dusty. Ceramic is harder as well, and lasts longer, so it is worth the extra money as you won't be changing them for around 5-6 years at least.

I don't know what you've done. Give us the list, and when you did the stuff. Do you have steel hoses? They will make your brakes feel tighter. Again, its psychological. The pedal seems to bite earlier and you believe the brakes are more responsive. The stock hoses - the pedal seems to bite later. However, you can adjust your foot's position accordingly, and when they bite they both bite in excess of the brake lock force so the brakes lock instantly.

Do piston bleeding on your callipers all 4. Then see how the brakes feel.

Something in your system is not working well. You sound like someone who is not trying to get that extra bit out of your brakes, but someone who has lousy brakes.

You may need to test your brake master cylinder. You may need to test your engine's vacuum as well. Might as well test the booster as well. Please google for more info (engine vaccum needs to be tested with a vacuum pressure gauge...not all that important lah).


Another thing (and I forgot this earlier), it is a good idea to change your booster to intake manifold hoses x2, one way valve, booster plastic fitting, rubber washer at the booster, and new hose clips. If you can't remember doing it before, please do this. It only cost list rm120 in parts or less, and like 5 minute job for the mechanic he might not even charge you if you are a regular customer. The new setup should last you between 10 years - every 5 years just change the one-way vacuum valve its cheap.

Keep all the old hoses and one way fittings.

Tell me what's really bothering you.

Have you had a good mechanic look at the car and go for a test drive ?

Did you get a second opinion from another mechanic's test drive ?

Have you driven other e34s and tested their braking ? That's a very good way to decide if your brakes are ok or not actually.






Roberto

 

[Roberto]

Bro, tell us what you've done to your braking system, when you did it, and what brand stuff you used.

I suspect you've got dirty brake fluid. Piston bleeding will probably help you loads. However, before you do that, test your mc (master cylinder) first.

Mc test :

1. Hand and gearbox brake at park.
2. Start engine. Shut off after thirty seconds.
3. Pump the brake pedal fully and repeatedly. You should get at least 2 full pumps before the pedal suddenly becomes hard.
4. Hold the now hard pedal with full force for 1 minute. See if the pedal moves down. Pay close attention, put your other foot next to the one on the pedal to assess movement and make sure you have good light. Even slight movement down over time is not good.
5. (after 1 minute of holding hard), While holding the pedal down, start the engine. In a few seconds the pedal show go all the way down and should move down evenly and not sharply or slowly.
6. Repeat 1-5 above until you are very sure of your results.
7. See if your brake fluid is going down.

The thing is, your mc can be screwed even if it leaks very slightly.

A leaky mc will reduce the braking force to the pistons and reduce the speed at which that force moves from the mc to the pistons. This will of course mean lousier brakes.


If this test proves a suspect mc, change to a new one and do piston bleeding when you install the mc so that you only do one round of bleeding. Before installing the mc, make sure the mechanic bench-bleeds the mc. Please see youtube on what that means.

 

[Roberto]

Try this.....do some normal braking, then do about 3 hard brakes from speed which activate abs. Then do normal braking again. There should be no difference in your normal braking before and after the hard braking.

 

[Tom328]

Good info!

 

[unstopables_7]

Sticking to this thread , great info guys, thanks!

 

[alantiong]

i believe E34 brakes are very similiar to E32. I use to drive the E32 740iL and i have to say braking is not the best features of this generation BMW.

what i did was to upgrade my front calipers to E38 4 pots Brembos. result/improvement next to nothing as the rotor size is the same. 316mm.what i should have done is to find a system that is at least 325 or even 330mm but that will create some other issues like wheel offsets and wheel size to fit the spares.

but if you E34 rotor is less than 316, you should try fit the V8s ones in. as diameter of rotor is all the leverage about in stopping power. i do agree to roberto comment that before you upgrade, sort out the present brake as many are in bad shape considering the age of the car. you will be surprised what a change of master cylinder seals and piston seals will improve and revive ur brakes.

 

[Roberto]

i believe E34 brakes are very similiar to E32. I use to drive the E32 740iL and i have to say braking is not the best features of this generation BMW.

what i did was to upgrade my front calipers to E38 4 pots Brembos. result/improvement next to nothing as the rotor size is the same. 316mm.what i should have done is to find a system that is at least 325 or even 330mm but that will create some other issues like wheel offsets and wheel size to fit the spares.

Hi Alan,

You sound like your e32 had lousy brakes.

I have to disagree with your comments that braking was not one of the best features of this generation of bmw. By this generation, you're referring to the E30, E34 and E32.

These three cars shared alot of similar components across the chassis. They even share engines - the M20, M30 and M70 (basically 2 M30s sandwitched together). Many of the subcomponent manufacturers for everything in the cars, were the same,

If the E34 had world record winning brakes, then how is it possible for the other cars in the same generation to be far behind ?

I believe something in your old car's stock system was not optimal on your car. In fact it seems obvious to me.

Take heed to the comments Alan made that upgrading to brembo callipers did not make much of a difference. The brembo callipers are able to apply force to more of the brake pads (in terms of surface area) and thus apply more force to the brake discs.

Changing the size of the rotors would not have made any difference to the contact area between the pistons and the pads, and the pads and the discs, unless you had large pads as well. However, larger callipers generally need to come with larger pads so that was probably done to begin with.

Probably the stock brakes you had were very close to the brembo's performance, and in any case, only made a difference in the pre-lockup part of the braking process, which didn't amount to much.

.....

MKMD428, what are your thoughts now ? Have you done the mc (master cylinder) tests I suggested above? Did you do any other tests ? How is your brake fluid's quality? Have you done piston bleeding?

 

[Roberto]

Its like this guys.

You're driving a BMW.

You feel the engine is not so cool.

You're not going to tell yourself that the engine sucks....because BMW built it.

You're going to check your engine out from tip to toe. You're going to check for oil leaks. You're going to check for vacuum leaks. You're going to flush your engine to make sure its clean. You're going to make sure you've got engine oil with the right rating in here. You're going to check if you've got error codes. You're going to pull out your spark plugs and see if they look ok. You're going to check if the engine belts are in good shape and are correctly tensioned, and you're going to check if all the pulleys are smooth and undamaged. If possible you will check if your timing chain's tensioner (there are two) are ok. You're going to clean your icv. You're going to clean your throttle body. You're going to make sure your air filter is not dirty. You're going to make sure that your air hoses and vacuum hoses (even the one's connecting the brake booster) are in good shape, have no cracks, and all clamps are tight. You're going to go for an italian tuneup.

THEN

You're going to drive with the afm, air temp sensor, ects (engine's coolant sensor) and o2 sensor disconnected or deactivated one by one (everything else being correctly connected) and see if the car performs much better. You need to do this because the fault code reporting system for cars in that generation were not too good, very early generation - they didn't always code a lousy or damaged sensor, and kept them online and kept responding to their bad inputs which will usually degrade fuel economy but often also performance....so you do the disconnect test to be absolutely sure.

THEN

You're going to check your transmission's oil, torque convertor.

THEN

you're going to check your rear differential's fluid, and the differential itself if you don't mind spending rm30 more to open the back plate and looking at the teeth in the ring gear directly.

Then you're going to check your tyres.


And only then....are you going to wonder if you need a more aggressive chip, bigger engine, shorter rear differential, a manual swop, etc.

***


Same thing for the brakes. If you are not happy with the brakes, and you're driving a BMW, then the first thing you need to do is to thoroughly check out your brake system. It may not be the world's best but it should not be disappointing. If it is, something is definitely wrong somewhere, and getting a BBK may only mask this problem if it remains unfixed.

 

[alantiong]

hmmm.. i like this roberto... he sure knows what is he talking bout.. wanna catch up for a cuppa sometimes??

however, i have to disagree on rotor size. it does makes difference if the center of friction is further from the center of rotation. bigger pad surface area means more friction (Force, N). and bigger rotor means more leverage (distance, m).

means, if i were to use same pads/calipers but bigger rotor, which naturally means i need to "extend" the calipers further from center. from a 300mm rotor to a 316mm, an extension of 8mm further, actually give you a (8/150)% more stopping power.

going all technical in this, but i found that a lot of people measures their brakes with the ability to lock the wheels and make screeching marks on the tarmac.. for goodness sake.. its about stopping the car, not the wheels. when you lock the wheels, you get dynamic friction, which is lower than Static Friction if the wheel keeps rotating.

and i do agree that E30, 32 34 were the fore runners of brakes in its era, except comparing to W126 which have the same but 5 years earlier.

i have driven enough E32/34 to know that it is not the best around. probably of weight especially on E32. i have the hydraulic assisted brakes which supposed to be superior but the beast is just too heavy. but saying that, i might be too optimistic to compare it to E39 and 38s.



one more thing to look out for brakes issue in this generation is the accumulator or commonly called the bomb. if the internal bladder is punctured, you will have heavy brake. it looks like the accumulator for the hydraulic suspension too. located front left corner of the car.

 

[Roberto]

Bro Alan!

Yes we should meet up for a tt one day, there is much that you can help me with.

You've raised some interesting points and I thank you for your attention. However, I believe they are not significant to the issue. Let me explain further.

------------------------




And if you think about it, it is better to fit the callipers closer to the hats. There is less rotational force closer to the hats and thus less force need be applied to stop it. The reason they don't do this probably has something to do with metallurgy and not braking itself. The rotor probably deforms unevenly when you do this.

The centripetal force equation is F = mvv /r (i.e. m v squared, dunno how to type the square here sorry) / r....so the velocity of the rotor at that specific point contributes more to the force present than the distance to the centre. Wider discs will always require more force to stop them.

So I believe you have understood it in reverse my friend. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


**

The main thing about rotors with a larger diameter are 3 things :

1. Large surface area dissipates heat better. This works because there is more physical metal in a larger rotor to dissipate heat from the pad-rotor contact point, and a large area in contact with cool air rushing by which means it can cool down faster.

2. Bigger rotors enable you to create vents between both sides which are strong enough to withstand consistent braking. More vents = more exposure to air = better cooling = longer time to get to brake fade = better braking.

Heat is a big enemy to efficient braking. Heat causes brake pads to glaze and thus brakes to fade. BMW builds their stock cars for hard drivers, so they will assume that you're going to do alot of braking while on the road not the track. So heat becomes a big issue for them to tackle properly.

3. Large rotors of course enables you to fit larger brake pads and large pistoned callipers /pistons with a larger net application area such as multi pot pistons. More friction means better pre-abs braking times. And you might need that for that particular car. A vios does not need huge rotors to stop from 140kmh in say 50 metres. An E34 might.


-------------------

And static and dynamic friction does not apply to our braking discussion. Static friction applies when both surfaces are not moving relative to each other. This is when the car and the road is at rest. When the car is in motion and the wheels are locked, the tyre is still moving relative to the road. It is just being dragged, as opposed to rolling over, the road. So in both locked wheels and unlocked wheels, you are talking about dynamic resistance, as long as the car is still moving.

As long as there is movement, there is always dynamic friction involved.

Alan I suspect what you're talking about is two types of dynamic friction : rolling resistance and sliding resistance. Rolling friction is what you get when the tyre rolls over the road without being dragged. Sliding resistance is what you get when the tyre is stopped from spinning by the wheels, and then is dragged across the road.

Sliding friction is always higher than rolling friction.

I'll use an example. Lets say the car is stationary, you apply the parking brakes, the transmission brake, and the foot brake. Can the car move ? Of course, but you will need a strong force to pull it forward before it even begins to move an inch. Now, release all the brakes and put the gear in neutral. A strong man can push the car and begin to get it moving. Much less friction. So that's the difference between rolling and sliding resistance.

Wheels that are locked and essentially dragged across the road....slow down the car faster than ABS wheels which are kept rolling by the abs unit. However, in practice, when locking the wheels at higher speeds, the car also slides in odd directions causing the driver to lose control if he is not trained to react to that instantly (not a requirement to get a license ), and this causes accidents. So ABS braking, even if it results in less stopping force, is ultimately much much safer in practice as the driver maintains control.

 

[Roberto]

I agree with you if the internal bladder for the brake bomb is punctured, or even if the internal valving is somehow screwed, your brakes will feel heavy. You're not getting much brake assist, which is the purpose of the brake bomb (i.e. brake booster). You can still lock the wheels but your foot will get tired.

How do you know your brake bomb is ok ? I found a simple test somewhere on the net. You probably already know about it.

a. Drive at high speed.
b. Toes and top half of the foot on the brake, and heel on the floorboard. i.e. Normal position. Brakes not applied.
c. Apply brakes hard by PIVOTING your foot on the heel. The front of your foot pushes down the brake pedal. The heel remains on the floorboard. You are not using your hamstrings, your upper leg, or your body. You are not stamping on the brakes. You are only using your calf muscles.
d. The brakes do NOT feel hard to push. The pedal moves down normally. And if the rest of your braking system is ok, the wheels lock up quickly and easily. A passenger sitting there and unable to see your braking will still feel that the car stops quickly.

In other words, calf muscles should be enough to brake the car well. If not BMW can't sell the car to chicks and will lose money. ) If it is not enough then yes you gotta check that brake booster.

-------------------

Another tidbit I found on google while reading through this intensively some time ago (had a brake problem and diagnosis was not clear). A bad brake booster could be caused by a bad master cylinder. The master cylinder has a seal at the back...the portion that fits into the booster. If that seal goes, brake fluid will leak past the seal into the booster. The fluid accumulates, comes into contact with the diaphragm in the booster, and causes it to degrade and eventually rupture.

So if you have a bad brake booster, please check your mc as well before just replacing the booster. You need to replace both at the same time. If you don't check, and it turns out that the mc is the real problem, the new brake booster will eventually be screwed by the mc as well. Big waste of time and money and alot of heartache.

Many workshops do not know about this. In fact many workshops don't know many important things. That is why I hang out on forums. Lots of sifus who are usually forced to learn the hard way (due to problems that remain persistently unfixed by workshops) around, and also people who bump into gold nuggets of information here and there and share it, and instantly everybody benefits.

 

[alantiong]

Bro Alan!

Yes we should meet up for a tt one day, there is much that you can help me with.

You've raised some interesting points and I thank you for your attention. However, I believe they are not significant to the issue. Let me explain further.

------------------------




And if you think about it, it is better to fit the callipers closer to the hats. There is less rotational force closer to the hats and thus less force need be applied to stop it. The reason they don't do this probably has something to do with metallurgy and not braking itself. The rotor probably deforms unevenly when you do this.

The centripetal force equation is F = mvv /r (i.e. m v squared, dunno how to type the square here sorry) / r....so the velocity of the rotor at that specific point contributes more to the force present than the distance to the centre. Wider discs will always require more force to stop them.

So I believe you have understood it in reverse my friend. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

yes bro,you got its wrong. its is the rotational torque than keeps the wheel spinning. the leverage is center hat to tyre circumferences vs center hat to center of friction. not the rotation or linear speed we after. so if u have the caliper further from center, you will need less force to leverage the rotational force of the wheel.


**

The main thing about rotors with a larger diameter are 3 things :

1. Large surface area dissipates heat better. This works because there is more physical metal in a larger rotor to dissipate heat from the pad-rotor contact point, and a large area in contact with cool air rushing by which means it can cool down faster.

2. Bigger rotors enable you to create vents between both sides which are strong enough to withstand consistent braking. More vents = more exposure to air = better cooling = longer time to get to brake fade = better braking.

Heat is a big enemy to efficient braking. Heat causes brake pads to glaze and thus brakes to fade. BMW builds their stock cars for hard drivers, so they will assume that you're going to do alot of braking while on the road not the track. So heat becomes a big issue for them to tackle properly.

3. Large rotors of course enables you to fit larger brake pads and large pistoned callipers /pistons with a larger net application area such as multi pot pistons. More friction means better pre-abs braking times. And you might need that for that particular car. A vios does not need huge rotors to stop from 140kmh in say 50 metres. An E34 might.

cannot agree more on these
-------------------

And static and dynamic friction does not apply to our braking discussion. Static friction applies when both surfaces are not moving relative to each other. This is when the car and the road is at rest. When the car is in motion and the wheels are locked, the tyre is still moving relative to the road. It is just being dragged, as opposed to rolling over, the road. So in both locked wheels and unlocked wheels, you are talking about dynamic resistance, as long as the car is still moving.

As long as there is movement, there is always dynamic friction involved.

Alan I suspect what you're talking about is two types of dynamic friction : rolling resistance and sliding resistance. Rolling friction is what you get when the tyre rolls over the road without being dragged. Sliding resistance is what you get when the tyre is stopped from spinning by the wheels, and then is dragged across the road.

Sliding friction is always higher than rolling friction. (TERBALIK) friction and resistance is not the same thing.

rolling friction is static. look closely, there is no displacement of surface/sliding against each other. so friction coefficient value is higher.

sliding friction (when wheel locks) is actually dynamic friction, as the two surface slides on each other. so friction coefficient is lower.

example, when you try to drag a car on handbrakes and assume it is dead locked. the initial force to move the car off the static friction lets say 1000N. once moving, it become dynamic resistance, it will be less than 1000N. we learn this in Form 4 science/physic i think. pulling a block of wood on teh table with a spring and scale on it.


I'll use an example. Lets say the car is stationary, you apply the parking brakes, the transmission brake, and the foot brake. Can the car move ? Of course, but you will need a strong force to pull it forward before it even begins to move an inch. Now, release all the brakes and put the gear in neutral. A strong man can push the car and begin to get it moving. Much less friction. So that's the difference between rolling and sliding resistance. AGAIN its a misconception. sounds logical, but the fundamentals are not correct.

Wheels that are locked and essentially dragged across the road....slow down the car faster than ABS wheels which are kept rolling by the abs unit NOPE... not true. if abs is tuned to the correct frequency and degree of locking it will stop much earlier than total locked up. did some testing for Dunlop and Conti in the pass. . However, in practice, when locking the wheels at higher speeds, the car also slides in odd directions causing the driver to lose control if he is not trained to react to that instantly (not a requirement to get a license ), and this causes accidents. So ABS braking, even if it results in less stopping force, is ultimately much much safer in practice as the driver maintains control. Less stopping force on wheel, but less stopping distance on slippery surface.

 

[alantiong]

bro.. its is so refreshing to go though this with someone who actually appreciate the point of argument!!! loving this.

 

[ICEMAN 68]

jokes aside ....coming from an e36 person myself , i think the e28 brake system somehow bytes better then my e36 ..... arghhh

 

[V-Man]

jokes aside ....coming from an e36 person myself , i think the e28 brake system somehow bytes better then my e36 ..... arghhh

that because your e36 banyak power... can't stop easily lorr