Problem with my E90

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quoted from http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15358

(The propensity that a car has for tramlining depends on its suspension geometry and the amount of feedback that the designers have built into the steering. Aspects like scrub radius, castor, camber and so on.)
So when I found that the insides of the Kumhos were badly worn - probably as a result of the large amount of toe-in being run in a vain attempt to reduce the tramlining - I needed to make a decision. What good tyres could I buy for the front of the Audi that would very substantially decrease the horrible tramlining?
I started off thinking expensive tyres - Bridgestone S02, that kind of thing. But for tyres of that standard we're talking about a helluva lot of money - especially if the tramlining remained just as bad! What would I say - "Sorry Mr Tyre Retailer, I don't like these and I'd like my money back." Yeah, right. But what if the dealer was aware of the problem before I bought the tyres? Perhaps we could work something out before hand? I rang a tyre retailer and told him that my car really liked tramlining - and what was his suggestion for tyres that would fix this?
"Yair well, you need a tyre that's not directional," he said.
"Right - why is that?" I asked.
"Well, directional tyres have really coarse tread that grips right into the road," he replied.

'Er - but what's the directionality got to do with it? Haven't some non-directional tyres also got a coarse tread?" I asked.
And I didn't get a satisfactory reply to that.
END QUOTE


Based on Mr Google answer, Goodyear F1 don't give tramline problem... Might be related to directional thead but not v shape design.

Conclusion:
Always do alignment
 
Danc, there is a radio transducer placed inside the wheel. From what I know, these transducers talks to the antenna in the wheel arches.They are the ones that give info if the RFT is under inflated or flat etc to the computer.

What Im worried if I'm changing the tyres, and that fella is not familiar with BMW setup, he might damage the transducer. Since the computer also informs the driver which tyre has a problem, Im not sure if rotating the wheels (ie front left with rear left etc) will confuse the pressure monitoring system. Does the BMW have some type of self learning system where it can recognise the transducer position no matter where they are ?

I was also told by a mechanic that there were instances of wheels removed from a car gave false information to another BMW which was near by. Radio communication!
 
GhostDriver;321991 said:
Danc, there is a radio transducer placed inside the wheel. From what I know, these transducers talks to the antenna in the wheel arches.They are the ones that give info if the RFT is under inflated or flat etc to the computer.

What Im worried if I'm changing the tyres, and that fella is not familiar with BMW setup, he might damage the transducer. Since the computer also informs the driver which tyre has a problem, Im not sure if rotating the wheels (ie front left with rear left etc) will confuse the pressure monitoring system. Does the BMW have some type of self learning system where it can recognise the transducer position no matter where they are ?

I was also told by a mechanic that there were instances of wheels removed from a car gave false information to another BMW which was near by. Radio communication!

Our cars use the more low tech RFT warning system (TPI?). No device attached on the wheel and it measures the rolling circumference when the wheel is moving to detect a flat i belive. Hence we can't get exact tyre pressure readings on our OBC. Other BMW ranges have TPMS which has a thingamagik stuck on the wheel ;)
 
Ooh, I see, but as E46 mentioned I believe that the E90 cars in the US only comes with TPMS (you called them tranducers) Ours is based on our DSC only. Unless the later model now come with TPMS here in Msia? So if you are in Msia, can you confirm this with your service advisor? Or they themselves don't know what they are talking about and only wanting to scare us into going back to them even for balancing, alignment etc. Most of us have already done our alignment etc outside. I have asked once how much does an alignment job cost from AB and Ingress auto for E90 325. They mentioned it's because of active steering so it's harder blah blah and the price is .....wait for this RM 345!!!!
 
You're spot on danc. And I wonder if they don't actually send it out to a tyre shop nearby and charge you for it!

Those with experience, please share which tyres should we be cautious of to avoid tramlining on our roads?
 
Yes, confirm no radio transducer in our E90 wheels. It "cleverly" make use of the ABS sensors to calculate the wheel rotation and matches against the rest of the wheels. If all 4 tyres deflating at the same rate, then your RFT indicator will not give you any alarm.. :p

According to Ingress Auto, RFT is very difficult to remove from rim using the conventional tyre kopek machine. Ingress Auto tyre machine are specially imported and meant for removing RFTs without damaging the rims. Please take note!
 
Schwepps;322016 said:
You're spot on danc. And I wonder if they don't actually send it out to a tyre shop nearby and charge you for it!

Those with experience, please share which tyres should we be cautious of to avoid tramlining on our roads?

Thats exactly what happened to me. I took the car in the begining to AB Glenmarie for alignment. They were full that day and they ask if I didn't mind to wait (5hrs) or they can send my car to an outside "approved" tire shop. I said ooh now can go outside ah..... They then took my car to Goh Swee Hin (Pirellis) to get the job done. Ever since then I have NEVER done any tire work at AB and will never do so...
 
Is that so, then I must have received the wrong info from this mechanic then. I had no idea how it worked before until this mechanic told me, so instead of a transducer, it just uses that rolling radius measurement.

Still, can anyone recommend a tire shop with BMW RTF experience ? Where's this Goh Swee Hin shop anyway ?
 
Ghost, if you are heading towards AB Glenmarie you cannot miss it as it's at the traffic lights just after EON, corner shop with Big pirellis tyre sign. The guy/supervisor is helpful. The only reason I don't go there anymore is I don't think too highly of other Pirelli tires. For the PZero price I would go for a PS2 anytime. But for the RFTs I must say the Euforias are pretty good. Never had any problems with them right till the end of its life.Just punctures that was patched up.
 
danc;322020 said:
Thats exactly what happened to me. I took the car in the begining to AB Glenmarie for alignment. They were full that day and they ask if I didn't mind to wait (5hrs) or they can send my car to an outside "approved" tire shop.

Oh funny danc...I had the same "If you don't mind to wait or we can send it outside for you..." prognosis. It may be standard operating practice for all you know. :) I have my doubts about all this "we have the right equipment for changing RFTs" stuff too. A good, and I stress good, tyre shop has about 1000 times more expertise with tyres than they do.

GhostDriver, get used to taking a bag of salt with you when talking to the dealer's service people. Be a bit sceptical. ;) But your drift problem is intriguing. Do let us know what the reason is, if you find out.
 
Yeah Danc, I think I've seen that shop before.

Schwepps, I took so much salt when I was dealing with the Honda service centers that I have high blood pressure now! Was hoping BMW's service people were better! Looks like I need a bucket then!
 
GhostDriver;321991 said:
Danc, there is a radio transducer placed inside the wheel. From what I know, these transducers talks to the antenna in the wheel arches.They are the ones that give info if the RFT is under inflated or flat etc to the computer.

What Im worried if I'm changing the tyres, and that fella is not familiar with BMW setup, he might damage the transducer. Since the computer also informs the driver which tyre has a problem, Im not sure if rotating the wheels (ie front left with rear left etc) will confuse the pressure monitoring system. Does the BMW have some type of self learning system where it can recognise the transducer position no matter where they are ?

I was also told by a mechanic that there were instances of wheels removed from a car gave false information to another BMW which was near by. Radio communication!

If you find transducers on the rims (they are mounted behind the air valve) then this should be the later generation of TPMS which rightfully, an E90 should have. The one that works by using the ABS sensors belonged to the earlier generation like my Z4 (2005).

You need to let the car 're-learn' the tyre pressure each and everytime after refilling air. I don't know how the E90's works but mine is like, start the engine, press the TPMS button until a light comes on the dash and proceed to drive normally. It goes off after 1 minute or less, indicating it has 'remember' the new pressure setting on the wheels.

Read the manual carefully, it should tell you what to do! It is also very true that extra care is needed to remove or reinstall tyres on rims fitted with transducers.

Don't you marvel at modern technology!?:rolleyes:
 
The 3 series here only comes with RFI, Run Flat Indicator, which as danc and astro said monitor rotational differences of the 4 wheels through the DSC system. TPMS hasn't come yet but it might in future. BMWM have been introducing the goodies bit by bit like the good marketeers that they are.

For my money, TPMS would have been more useful than Highbeam Assist in the 08 models. I honestly can't remember the last time I actually put headlights in highbeam. There are not many dark and winding roads that I find myself driving through in these days of car-jackers and mat rempits! :p
 
RFI is also another reason to be very careful with RFT air pressures. RFI is only an indirect monitor and is not very accurate or fool-proof. It will detect a blowout or complete air loss of course, but a partial loss? I have my doubts.
 
I find mine RFI works very well. A slight drop in air pressure will trigger it. Experienced it few times and that is why until today I am running mine with normal tires without any repair kit!
 
Yup same experience here. When I had a nail in my tire twice, the RFI warned me before total failure. But I have a friend who has a pre-Sep E90 which I guess has not had his sware updated, did not detect a loss of pressure even after tire had a puncture and the pressure was down till 18 psi. Go figure this one............
 
There can be a few reasons, danc. In partial deflation, some RFT tyre models may deform sufficiently to trigger the alert, and some may not. It would work more reliably with normal tyres like DYs which deform more than RFTs with a given deflation. Another thing is you still have to reset (recalibrate) after each inflation or tyre change or swap. Your friend may have missed doing it. I've forgotten a few times.

TPMS is the only way to be sure because it measures the actual air pressures in each tyre and transmits them by low power radio signal. Like an F1 car! :p I think they're mandatory in the US for RFTs.
 
How do I recalibrate after inflating the tyres again ?

I tried following the manual, chose the RFT indicator and hit enter, and it just pauses for a while, then the menu comes back again.

Am I doing it right?
 
Choose the RFT indicator and press & hold the button until a "tick" mark appear and then just drive off as usual. That's how I reset mine.
 
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