E60 530d swirl flap problem

[666bxg]

Hihas anyone encountered broken swirl flaps in the E60 530d? This is a well known issue and BMW has improved the design of the flaps over the years. We run 2 E60 530d's and unfortunately one of them had the broken swirl flaps and sucked into the engine! Funnily this happened while under AB care for an unrelated matter. In Europe BMW recognize the problem and provide a 'contribution' to the cost of replacement engine and turbo, on an individual basis.Any experience in this matter is much appreciated.

 

[nat]

E60 530d swirl flap problem

Hi

has anyone encountered broken swirl flaps in the E60 530d? This is a well known issue and BMW has improved the design of the flaps over the years.

We run 2 E60 530d's and unfortunately one of them had the broken swirl flaps and sucked into the engine! Funnily this happened while under AB care for an unrelated matter.

In Europe BMW recognize the problem and provide a 'contribution' to the cost of replacement engine and turbo, on an individual basis.

Any experience in this matter is much appreciated.

Hi 666bxg

Resurrecting this thread as follow forummer and 530d owner dzuljazz2001 is facing the same problem.

Was this matter resolved satisfactorily for you ?

 

[dzuljazz2001]

dear 666bxg.

experienced the same issue and now in midst of negotiation with AB and BMW Malaysia for some win-win compromise. though my car is passed its warranty but when we talk about design flaw, BMW should be taken to task. We are talking about a high performance car here and if there are flwas detected, we as concumers should be duly notified so that action can be taken to avoid major repairs.

 

[astroboy]

Sound like the swirl flaps are timed to fail at around this time of the life cycle. Interesting..!

Please tell all your friends who's using 525d and 530d about this known issue and get it rectified before any of the flaps get sucked into the combustion chamber, damaging the cylinder surface, head and piston surface. Scary..

The flaps seemed to be redundant and can be removed or replaced with a plastic flaps (available after they realise the design flaw).

Are these cars brought in by BMW Malaysia? If yes, then there are responsible "somewhat" and if its parallel importers, I don't think the car dealer will absorb the repair cost and its unfair to "attack" BMW Malaysia.. BMW Malaysia should at least help nego with HQ to subsidise the repair cost but technically, their product liability period ends after the warranty. So whatever help they can provide, is on goodwill basis. Unless its a design flaw that leads to safety concern that can threaten the life of the driver, passenger or even pedestrian, then different scope of social responsibility.

What was the mileage when the flap fail? Warranty only covers 60k km.. or 2 years whichever comes first. The expected life of the BMW engine is expected to be 160k km, as how they specified the maintenance requirement for the car i.e. LifeTime transmission lube, LifeTime axle oil and all meant 160k km which was published later when whole world is asking how long is "LifeTime". If you have reached 200k km when your flap fail, u should be congratulated because u have clock additional 40k km as a bonus.. and what was your question again??!

For instant, the first generation Saga has this body problem where the antirust or bitu layer on the body is corrosive to cause rust on the all 4 doors and roof and its obvious for Saga that's >6 years in age. What u expect Proton to do?

Malaysian Euro2 diesel is confirmed not suitable for these high pressure tiny piezo diesel injector and yet why are these cars running in Malaysia..?? if BMW Malaysia brought in these cars, they deserve a knock on their head!

 

[dzuljazz2001]

Sound like the swirl flaps are timed to fail at around this time of the life cycle. Interesting..!

Please tell all your friends who's using 525d and 530d about this known issue and get it rectified before any of the flaps get sucked into the combustion chamber, damaging the cylinder surface, head and piston surface. Scary..

The flaps seemed to be redundant and can be removed or replaced with a plastic flaps (available after they realise the design flaw).

Are these cars brought in by BMW Malaysia? If yes, then there are responsible "somewhat" and if its parallel importers, I don't think the car dealer will absorb the repair cost and its unfair to "attack" BMW Malaysia.. BMW Malaysia should at least help nego with HQ to subsidise the repair cost but technically, their product liability period ends after the warranty. So whatever help they can provide, is on goodwill basis. Unless its a design flaw that leads to safety concern that can threaten the life of the driver, passenger or even pedestrian, then different scope of social responsibility.

What was the mileage when the flap fail? Warranty only covers 60k km.. or 2 years whichever comes first. The expected life of the BMW engine is expected to be 160k km, as how they specified the maintenance requirement for the car i.e. LifeTime transmission lube, LifeTime axle oil and all meant 160k km which was published later when whole world is asking how long is "LifeTime". If you have reached 200k km when your flap fail, u should be congratulated because u have clock additional 40k km as a bonus.. and what was your question again??!

For instant, the first generation Saga has this body problem where the antirust or bitu layer on the body is corrosive to cause rust on the all 4 doors and roof and its obvious for Saga that's >6 years in age. What u expect Proton to do?

Malaysian Euro2 diesel is confirmed not suitable for these high pressure tiny piezo diesel injector and yet why are these cars running in Malaysia..?? if BMW Malaysia brought in these cars, they deserve a knock on their head!

Well put Astroboy ... but there are still avenues and room for improvement. Though 160K km is considered to be the expected life of BMW engine there are other responsibility of manufacturer to inform consumer of such issue so that earlier preventive maintenance or replacement of parts can be done to avoid major damages that requires high corrective maintenence cost!.
If it was a first time case, yes nothing much it can be done, but these are recurrance that BMW should be obligated to inform owners of such problems.

By the way ...Lifetime means lifetime, period. If BMW says lifetime means 160K, put it in writing in the manual or somewhere car owners can view and understand. I once called BMW hotline and made enquiries with regards to transmission oil and was told that its not required to changes as it is using a 'long-life' recommended oil. Long-life is Long-life and Life-time is Life-time.......but as an argument sake, it is still subjective to argue about it. However, would you pay so much knowing the car can give you only 200K km of Sheer Driving Pleasure???? After that? ... Shivers, Driving with Problems!!!

 

[astroboy]

..However, would you pay so much knowing the car can give you only 200K km of Sheer Driving Pleasure???? After that? ... Shivers, Driving with Problems!!!

Yes, if its brand new.. used? still alright if less than 70k km is clocked so I still have another 100k km to rempit/lipat, or if over 100k km, it better be overhauled before...

That's why I bought a brand new zero mileage E90, suppose to buy a VIOS instead but missy nag-nag-nag mau bimmer..:listen:

High performance car la wei, why would u want to buy a 2nd hand F1 car? After few races, kong lio lo!..

 

[dzuljazz2001]

talk abt milage done is very subjective boy ....if brand new car not poperly maintain, will also kong lio lo ......I have a masterpiece 91 model and had clocked almost 400K in km but to date has not given me any problems ....the key is to do the preventive and regular maintenance without fail.
high performance car at a high price and only good for 160K ....damn.... I shud have asked before buying it ......my mistake. However I will exhaust all avenues and resources before giving up and switching cars. ......

 

[t2ribena]

when talking about a product...lifetime means the lifetime of the product...let say the e60...it was released on late 2003 and due to be replaced with F10 coming late 2010...the product lifetime of e60 is 7 years and based on BMW estimated mileage usage per year of 20k km the lifetime mileage is expected to be 140k km or slightly more nia...same goes to the thumb drive...all of them bears the lifetime warranty...but when u read the fine print then u will understand its lifetime is until it is replaced with another variant...which is normally in the span of 3 months depending on the manufacturer's...

as u said, BMW is a performance car, and in this case BMW engineers tries to extract as much performance possible in relation to acceptable durability of the products...when pushing a products/components near to its limit, you are by default reducing its lifetime...for the N52 2.5l NA engine for example, they manage to extract out 218bhp of power and still being highly durable throughout its lifetime...other manufacturer only release less than 180bhp for the same displacement in the name of its longer lifetime and durability...

that is why F1 engine only last for 1 race last time and now for 2 or 4 races...when doing this they sacrisfy power to cut costs...if not how to extract 700 to 800bhp from a 2.4l V8 NA engine?

this swirl flap issue is quite complicated as some 530d experience this problem as early as 30k km and some as high as 200k km which is way past its lifetime expectency...like i said before, pursue this with the manufacturer and see what they can offer to solve this issue since this is a common failure...

 

[t2ribena]

talk abt milage done is very subjective boy ....if brand new car not poperly maintain, will also kong lio lo ......I have a masterpiece 91 model and had clocked almost 400K in km but to date has not given me any problems ....the key is to do the preventive and regular maintenance without fail.
high performance car at a high price and only good for 160K ....damn.... I shud have asked before buying it ......my mistake. However I will exhaust all avenues and resources before giving up and switching cars. ......

part of preventive maintenance means replacing all the swirl flaps but in this case AB fail to advise you...in this case u could use this as a basis of goodwill contribution for the repair from BMW Malaysia...

btw, 91 W124 is a masterpiece mer? i tot master piece E220 and E280 is only for 94 and 95 models?

 

[t2ribena]

Hi

has anyone encountered broken swirl flaps in the E60 530d? This is a well known issue and BMW has improved the design of the flaps over the years.

We run 2 E60 530d's and unfortunately one of them had the broken swirl flaps and sucked into the engine! Funnily this happened while under AB care for an unrelated matter.

In Europe BMW recognize the problem and provide a 'contribution' to the cost of replacement engine and turbo, on an individual basis.

Any experience in this matter is much appreciated.

better get the other 530d's swirl flaps changed or deleted before it causes another catastrophic damage...:top:

 

[666bxg]

My 2004 530d had only 50k kms when the swirl flap got sucked into the engine. Armed with literature from UK BMW magazines we submitted our claim to AB

They were very helpful in putting the claim to BMW HQ and informed us along the way.

Finally they agreed to pay for all parts, and I had to bear the costs for labour and sundries. That equated to 22k in parts and 6k in labour.

For a car that's nearly 5 years old and clearly out of warranty, its a reasonable outcome. But again, this shouldn't have happened in the first place.....

 

[dzuljazz2001]

thanks tri2bena for the invaluable feedback.

yes i hv been in discussion with AB Kuantan and they had informed me that their principal want to meet to discuss things further ...as you have said AB/BMW should have advise us of this issue (which they did not) and I hv been trying hard explaining to them of this flaw and request for a win-win compromise. Hopefully they will see the light to this problem and agree to an amicable compromise.

With references to having the swirl-flps changed aor removed/deleted, AB/BMW should have proposed or advise us much2 earlier .....

Thanks for the response bro ....

 

[astroboy]

What can one do with RM6k from the scrap yard har?! I wonder.. That would proly my option..

Not much I guess... recond a bimmer gearbox also cost that much lio..

 

[dzuljazz2001]

Dear 666bxg, like I have mention earlier, the in-take manifold is a close unit and under normal condition, damage to it should not have happened. The design of the unit should compliment the performance of the engine, vice-versa. However, if flaw were later identified (which they had acknowledged and a redesigned was made) consumers SHOULD BE NOTIFIED! It's more than just an obligation but rather a manufacturer responsibilty and BMW have to do just that. Inform the customer.

BMW talk about relaibility, integrity and transperancy of their product but how can they put this high performance car in the market with such glaring defective unit for sale?

Anyway, my hats off to you 666 for the feedback. Together as 1 Malaysian user, we the consumer will be able to achieve the max in our current and future spending ....and not be short-changed by any manufacturer ...

 

[dzuljazz2001]

sorry for the unintentional error. my merc is a 91 model but upgraded to E220 in 2000 (engine inclusive) To-date it has been my life saver since my Beemer got 'trapped' at the AB outlet. Not once my merc has had an engine break-down.

 

[3CI]

Hi All Bro, im sorry that need to qestion what is this "Swirl Flaps" ..
how i know that his going kaput soon??

Appreciated all your reply..!!

 

[haywire]

Hi All Bro, im sorry that need to qestion what is this "Swirl Flaps" ..
how i know that his going kaput soon??

Appreciated all your reply..!!

Everything you need to know about the swirl flap problem:

http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf

 

[3CI]

Everything you need to know about the swirl flap problem:

http://www.pmwltd.co.uk/swirl_flaps.pdf

Really thanks the info,

p/s: can your advice, do i better remove the flap before anything happen..

 

[haywire]

Really thanks the info,

p/s: can your advice, do i better remove the flap before anything happen..

I'm no expert in this, but from what the article says you should really remove it. Doesnt affect anything major anyway, the drive wouldnt be any different than it is now.

On the other hand, if you leave it on, you run the risk of having a totalled engine, which would cost nearly RM30k to replace (from what 666bxg has said)

Look at the photos at the bottom of the article, could you afford your engine to look like that?

I definitely would remove it if it was me.

 

[dzuljazz2001]

Hi All Bro, im sorry that need to qestion what is this "Swirl Flaps" ..
how i know that his going kaput soon??

Appreciated all your reply..!!

one tell tale sign is "excessive smoke emmission from your tail pipe....