E46: Gearbox Life

[Mont-o]

Just flushed my gear box, consumed 20 litre of ESSO ATF oil that cost me over RM1k. My car clock 60k miles and its E46 323i year 99. My surprised the previous oil was already black in colour and i ask my mechanic to flush until the oil was at at righ colour...red i guess . open the gear box sump replaced the filter and new sump gasket. Now i feel no worry...the gear shift smoother. So guys the ATF actually need to be replace to prolong the gearbox life span. Cheers

 

[Juan Powerblow]

Originally posted by Mont-o@Mar 19 2006, 12:36 PM
Just flushed my gear box, consumed 20 litre of ESSO ATF oil that cost me over RM1k. My car clock 60k miles and its E46 323i year 99. My surprised the previous oil was already black in colour and i ask my mechanic to flush until the oil was at at righ colour...red i guess . open the gear box sump replaced the filter and new sump gasket. Now i feel no worry...the gear shift smoother. So guys the ATF actually need to be replace to prolong the gearbox life span. Cheers

Yup, my mechanic showed me the old ATF too and it was BLACK! He said how lah can this last lifetime??? He also used the ESSO ATF (made in the USA) and Albundy confirmed this is the right replacement ATF to use. I wonder what's the specific name tho? It's suppose to be transparent whitish in colour?

 

[supergripen]

hey guys..this is a good thread.JPB,what spec oil did u use for the tranny service? i think its a good idea if we pool our knowledge and find out where best to send our cars for tranny service for the good of everyone.
i believe all e46 in this country are running steptronic/auto boxes.once i get the chance i'll go around and try to find out as much as possible.
anyone who has done a tranny fluid change and happy with it,appreciate if you could post the place,cost,parts changed/spec etc..

many thanx :yes: maybe we can go and get group discount k:

 

[Toffeeman]

This is a good suggestion

 

[leakwoon]

i would say...

ya...the ATF maybe can used for "lifetime"

heheh

but if any gearbox failure.... AB can say it is wear n tear

 

[musclehedz]

ATF will never last for a lifetime as 'claimed' so by some. How does one tell if the fluid can last for a lifetime? How do you know? Just because somebody told you so or just because there is a sticker there saying so? Any Tribologist will tell you that no oils can last forever under constant usage and ATF is no exception either. Whether the gearbox is a sealed unit unopenable or not, the fluid will not last 'lifetime'. As someone here mentioned, "Lifetime" means 100,000km in Germany by BMW. Ppl here has grossly misused the term. If BMW engineers who designed the gearbox says its 100,000km and the SA as SC tell you no need to change until the gearbox kaputs, so are you telling me that the SA is much smarter than the BMW engineer who actually designed the gearbox? I don't think so buddy.....

ATF serves 3 functions : As a hydraulic oil, lubricate the gears and to remove the heat and dirt/fine particles of metal wears produced.

If the gearbox is not flushed or even changed say about 40k km, possibly some sludge will build up in the gearbox causing slow and/or rough responses in gear changes and to some extent slow down the gears which will ultimately give one a feeling of the car being less powerful. In the case of having a lot of sludge buildup, and if it's not flushed properly and by just doing a drop and top, it may or may not cause a sludge bomb as the new ATF will have a high cleaning capability to clean the gearbox therefore possibly destroying the gearbox probably by having too much sludge/contaminants removed all at one go and causing some blockage or seizures.

The ATF Fluid Exchanger machine that some shop possesses, like it's name, it's a fluid exchanger. The in/out lines to/from the ATF cooler is intercepted and hooked up to the machine and the machine will pump new fluid in and at the same time draw the old fluid out. The fluids going in/out can be seen on a glass tube indicator on the machine. The old fluid should be black(it must be black else it's not cleaning the gearbox unless it's new fluid) and the new fluid is dark clear red. The fluid will be exchanged until the fluid that is drawn out from the gearbox is the same color as the new fluid or once you're satisfied hence meaning it's cleaned.

The gearbox not only contains metal parts but plastic, rubber, etc.. those part's lifespan can be cut short by having an ATF that has already served it's lifetime in the gearbox. I would say 90% of the time the mechanicals in the gearbox will fail would be due to the FLUID. Changing the fluid often offers one 'insurance' for gearbox max health life and lifespan or would u rather pay for a recond gearbox or even a new gearbox that will cost a bomb and not to mention down time which in the first place would not have happened if it was taken good care of. The gearbox is just as important as the pistons or probably more important. You got engine, no gearbox = can't move.

I would suggest do a flush at 40,000km - 60,000km. Every 40k-60k km, just do a drop and top and flush it again at every 3-4 drop and tops. Those who are too late, just do a flush first and see what happens. If something bad happens, that that's too bad but do not blame it on the flush, IT'S NOT THE FLUSHING THAT CAUSED THE FAILURE, IT WAS DUE TO GEARBOX MAINTANENCE DILIGENCY. This not only applies to the gearbox but to our rear differentials as well, its also needs maintanence.

HEAT IS THE KILLER OF THE ATF OR ANY OTHER OIL INCLUDING ENGINE OIL and in our climate + driving conditions such as jams, 100,000km? Probably not so... yeah, the gearbox will still function with the expired ATF but the question is how long more will the gearbox last? Why cut short the lifespan and except the 'fact' that has been drilled into almost every car owner's head that the gearbox will fail at a certain mileage just because this has been told by 'mechanics' all this while but in actual fact it doesnt if good and diligent gearbox maintanence has been done.

If you're changing the ATF, make sure the person who does is knows what he/she is doing. Overfill or underfill or using the WRONG SPEC ATF can cause premature failure and damage to the gearbox. NOT ALL ATF ARE THE SAME, THEY ARE NOT. I believe our cars are speced to use GM DEXRON III spec fluid. Check the manual. You do not need to use original atf from bmw, as long as the ATF is Dexron III speced, it can be used. The mass market of gearboxes uses Dexron unless it's a jap gearbox probably they use a different fluid which contains friction modifiers like mitsu boxes, etc. The different fluid is uses is due to the materials in the gearbox, one fluid may particularly accelerated the wear of a certain material in the gearbox and the other will not so make sure the correct fluid is used else you will get premature failure.

 

[leakwoon]

ya

for german folks

100k KM is a life time lo

LOL

 

[romeo_v12]

What??? Lifetime means 100,000 kmh????....thats a real con job by the manufacturers.

Its like telling your girlfriend that you'll be with her "for a lifetime"....then you "jalan" her and then dump her after 100 days..."lifetime" mah!

Romeo

 

[BMW9700]

Originally posted by romeo_v12@Mar 20 2006, 01:59 PM
What??? Lifetime means 100,000 kmh????....thats a real con job by the manufacturers.

Its like telling your girlfriend that you'll be with her "for a lifetime"....then you "jalan" her and then dump her after 100 days..."lifetime" mah!

Romeo

100 days shifting your gear knob=100000kms for gearbox mah!! :rofl:


i guess change every 40000kms to be safe laa...RM600 per oil flush and change?

 

[leakwoon]

ya.600++


40k KM will do

tat's y i heard....those gear box more than 60k KM clocked

no need to do liao

cos if later the "monkey" mech.

didnt do a proper job

like seal or gasket or bla bla

it will cost u gear box to die after a few K km

no joke one .....heard from true story....

 

[supergripen]

good write up musclehedz..thanx.

my car has done 80k kms already and i have not done the ATF job.bought the car from AB and was told that the g-box don't need servicing.damn..now i'm afraid to do it.

anyone knows a good place that knows what they are doing? ie u've done the job at this place and your g-box is still okay.i'm feeling some negative vibes from mine..been for some time.

i've got a mod waiting that'll increase the engine's power and torque by quite a bit and i'm very worried about the gearbox.so before i do carry on with the engine mod,i'd like to make sure the gearbox is up to it..

 

[leakwoon]

bro supergripen

my friend one did in M performance mayang

tat's my regular mech.

so far oledi pakai 13 -14months about 10k KM++

the gearbox still alive !!

me also thinking to do when my next service is up

 

[valkryie]

Supergrippen,

I did mine in heritage recently @ around 72K kms. No problems and the tranmission feels better and smoother. It should not be a problem if it is done properly by a good workshop.

But they don't do full flush. Just drained out and replace ATF oil, ATF gasket and ATF filter.

I think the cost should be around RM 600+ but not sure what price heritage will charge since I negotiated with them at package level.

 

[leakwoon]

600++ is the PRICE

 

[supergripen]

Originally posted by leakwoon@Mar 21 2006, 03:27 PM
bro supergripen

my friend one did in M performance mayang

tat's my regular mech.

so far oledi pakai 13 -14months about 10k KM++

the gearbox still alive !!

me also thinking to do when my next service is up

LW..thanx.is this wshop behind stuttgart? i think i've seen the place before..ok,i'll have a look see when i get the chance.

 

[supergripen]

Originally posted by valkryie@Mar 22 2006, 02:36 PM
Supergrippen,

I did mine in heritage recently @ around 72K kms. No problems and the tranmission feels better and smoother. It should not be a problem if it is done properly by a good workshop.

But they don't do full flush. Just drained out and replace ATF oil, ATF gasket and ATF filter.

I think the cost should be around RM 600+ but not sure what price heritage will charge since I negotiated with them at package level.

hi valkyrie..nice nick.we both have the same theme for it..airplanes.

anyways..you said you only did a drain and refill? after 70+k kms? so howz your gearbox been? would you say its a job well done? do they know their stuff?

 

[valkryie]

Hi Supergripen,

I went to heritage and ask for the cost of an ATF flush. Then I mentioned to them that:

1. Auto Bavaria says it is a lifetime ATF

2. Some BMW tranmission died after doing the flush.

To which they have responded:

1. Nothing is lifetime (i agree with them)

2. They have been doing ATF flush on many E46 and none has encountered any problems.

2a. They explain that for ATF change, they do not try to dislodge any clog up fluid, etc as this will be very damaging to the tranmission.
Once the new ATF fluid is in with the new ATF filter, the tranmission will automatically clean itself out. The result will be a smoother tranmission.

With that answer from Heritage, I let them change my ATF.

So far gearbox no problems. Tranmission is smoother. Wish I have done it earlier as I wonder maybe it will prevent my tranmission jerking (from second to third gear) problem from happening in the first place.

Well they have a proper workshop with a GT1 computer. Fast service so they know their stuff. Show me all the replaced parts when I ask to see it.

Should you decide to go to heritage please be informed that they won't be the cheapest even after having to negotiate with them. So it is all up to how comfortable/secure you feel with a particular workshop and their price.

I believe Supergripen is the sweedish fighter jet? I think mine more ganas. Valkryie can transform into batalloid and kick some serious ass.

 

[skar19]

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[musclehedz]

Originally posted by supergripen@Mar 21 2006, 03:18 PM
good write up musclehedz..thanx.

my car has done 80k kms already and i have not done the ATF job.bought the car from AB and was told that the g-box don't need servicing.damn..now i'm afraid to do it.

anyone knows a good place that knows what they are doing? ie u've done the job at this place and your g-box is still okay.i'm feeling some negative vibes from mine..been for some time.

i've got a mod waiting that'll increase the engine's power and torque by quite a bit and i'm very worried about the gearbox.so before i do carry on with the engine mod,i'd like to make sure the gearbox is up to it..

SG,

At that mileage, I highly doubt it would cause any problems flushing it unless you're getting very violent gearbox behaviours like gear slamming during shifts or hesitation of cluth engagements, etc. all those violent thingys. But one thing I'm sure u experience is lesser power over the years or mileage which you never felt it as it accumulates during the mileage for the degration of the ATF. Most likely after a 'refreshing' course of your gearbox, you'll find your car out of a sudden smoother and more powerful. It should be that way if the engine, gearbox and rear differentials are kept in tip-top condition. If you're flushing out the gearbox, my advice is do the rear differentials as well(make sure they use the correct speced fluid too). If i'm not wrong, your 328i comes with the ZF slush box that calls for Esso LT 71141 ATF fluid. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS DEXRON III. Majority of the ppl will PUMP in Dexron III coz it's cheaper but like i said before, put in the wrong fluid and you'll shorten the lifespan. As far as I know, there is only Valvoline that produces a compatible ATF in the spec range of the Esso LT 71141. The original BMW part number of this fluid should be 83229407807 if i'm not mistaken. The difference between the ATF fluids is the additive packages in it. Dexron III or formerly known as Dexron IIE contains extra cleaning agents to clean the solenoids and pressure solenoids. LT 71141 spec I think contains even more additive for the more sensitive and heavier electronic equipped ZF unit but this you'll have to confirm coz I have not doen any LT 71141 before.

Normally, manufacturers spec 'lifetime' as the time period for the whole warranty period. That's it. Our gearboxes can last up to 200,000miles or more if it VERY WELL taken care off and there are some who has proven this. Our local fact here : max 200,000km gaveway..why? it's due the maintanence of the gearbox, never flushes, fluids expired never changed, wrong spec of fluid used, wrong level of fluid maintained, filter never changed. All this adds up to the shortened lifespan of the gearbox. I will say a high percentage of this fault lies in the mechanics wrongly educating the owners. "boss, 200,000km mesti rosak , gearbox mesti jam punya" yeah right. I've come across many mechanics who pump in the wrong spec fluid and after some questioning they will just give an answer "boleh pakai punya"...yes of course, sure it can be used, even if i were to pour in an SAE 0W/5cst oil it will also work, but the question is for how long?

 

[supergripen]

valkyrie..yeah,the gripen is a 4th gen multirole fighter from Saab.a bit less awesome than your valkyrie la hehe.. real jet la..cannot transform..

anyways,can u pm me the address to Heritage.i'd like to go and have a chat..thanx bro.