325i e46 or E90 electronic reliability
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Vroom325
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merced88, it's a difficult decision. Dream or Reality.
It can take forever to discuss too, passion vs money.
I think we will leave that part to you.
Allow me to write something.
First of all, if maintenance cost is really a concern, have you consider Mazda6?
I owned the first generation Mazda6 before, damn good handling FWD car. Of course, can't match with even E46 though.
You may wanna explore this. It's even more well built, equipment, handles better, reliable.
Though the 2nd gen gets bigger and less raw and direct like the 1st gen Mazda6 still much better then T&H.
Only 3 cars among 9 cars that I owned before live in my list.
Mazda6, my previous E46 325, my current E90 325.
Let me share with you. E46 325 is a very good car already if you compare with Japanese car.
In fact, E46 is even better built, solid, with BMW's character then an E90. Till today, I still miss the sound of that engine generates.
It makes better noise then my E90 325, be it idle or reving it towards the redline. Too bad I have sold mine. I have all the invoice kept.
The last time I checked with my boy's new owner, the car is still running happily wihout causing him much money.
It should be able to answer your needs, if you solely compare with a Japanese car.
I do understand you want to balance dream and reality.
I would say if you find a beautiful unit, your start up cost is even lesser, but you gotta pay a bit extra to get.
If not spend 10-15k fix it properly and thoroughly, the next 2-3yrs will be normal maintenance.
Go check them out, drive it and feel it. Know what you are getting, it's not as simple.
Find yourself an experience workshop(BMW specialist) and have it check thoroughly before purchase.
I am sure people here would love to help to make your dream come true without over strecching.
Well, if you have the budget and wants an even better handling car, E90 M sport is the one.
The RWD, 50:50 weight distribution, solid steering feel, chassis feedback, brake and gas pedal direct feedback.
If handling is what you want, this is your best bet. But, be warned, M sport suspension can be bumpy to your passenger at your back when you exceed 120km/h. By all means E90 is a better car then E46.
Yes, Jap cars are relialble, but like titan said, it's old fool proof technology, transporter with no soul/character.
When you have much less components, surely you wont fail.
If car does sits highly in your car, and you clearly know what you want.(If not, contruct your's now, handling, power and bla bla bla)
That will help you to slowly narrow down the car that you need.
Don't ask a bunch of people who only drives Jap car, they are bias, so do we.(speaks for myself)
A lot of people just hear from others that German cars are scary.
These bad experience also could be coz of lack of maintenance.
But do they know I changed my E46 brake pad(all 4, OEM) with RM300, but my Mazda6 cost me 600 over?
Of course, the life span is shorter because it just bites!!! Read my lips, it just BITES.
Try it on any other Jap car, you will be kissing some one else back.
My friend used to owned an Subaru B4, it bites, but he told me it can't stand the heat after you brake hard for several times. Guess what he is happy with with an E90 325. So long you know how to deal with corner, use your gear well, it's not too slow.
Happy hunting!
It can take forever to discuss too, passion vs money.
I think we will leave that part to you.
Allow me to write something.
First of all, if maintenance cost is really a concern, have you consider Mazda6?
I owned the first generation Mazda6 before, damn good handling FWD car. Of course, can't match with even E46 though.
You may wanna explore this. It's even more well built, equipment, handles better, reliable.
Though the 2nd gen gets bigger and less raw and direct like the 1st gen Mazda6 still much better then T&H.
Only 3 cars among 9 cars that I owned before live in my list.
Mazda6, my previous E46 325, my current E90 325.
Let me share with you. E46 325 is a very good car already if you compare with Japanese car.
In fact, E46 is even better built, solid, with BMW's character then an E90. Till today, I still miss the sound of that engine generates.
It makes better noise then my E90 325, be it idle or reving it towards the redline. Too bad I have sold mine. I have all the invoice kept.
The last time I checked with my boy's new owner, the car is still running happily wihout causing him much money.
It should be able to answer your needs, if you solely compare with a Japanese car.
I do understand you want to balance dream and reality.
I would say if you find a beautiful unit, your start up cost is even lesser, but you gotta pay a bit extra to get.
If not spend 10-15k fix it properly and thoroughly, the next 2-3yrs will be normal maintenance.
Go check them out, drive it and feel it. Know what you are getting, it's not as simple.
Find yourself an experience workshop(BMW specialist) and have it check thoroughly before purchase.
I am sure people here would love to help to make your dream come true without over strecching.
Well, if you have the budget and wants an even better handling car, E90 M sport is the one.
The RWD, 50:50 weight distribution, solid steering feel, chassis feedback, brake and gas pedal direct feedback.
If handling is what you want, this is your best bet. But, be warned, M sport suspension can be bumpy to your passenger at your back when you exceed 120km/h. By all means E90 is a better car then E46.
Yes, Jap cars are relialble, but like titan said, it's old fool proof technology, transporter with no soul/character.
When you have much less components, surely you wont fail.
If car does sits highly in your car, and you clearly know what you want.(If not, contruct your's now, handling, power and bla bla bla)
That will help you to slowly narrow down the car that you need.
Don't ask a bunch of people who only drives Jap car, they are bias, so do we.(speaks for myself)
A lot of people just hear from others that German cars are scary.
These bad experience also could be coz of lack of maintenance.
But do they know I changed my E46 brake pad(all 4, OEM) with RM300, but my Mazda6 cost me 600 over?
Of course, the life span is shorter because it just bites!!! Read my lips, it just BITES.
Try it on any other Jap car, you will be kissing some one else back.
My friend used to owned an Subaru B4, it bites, but he told me it can't stand the heat after you brake hard for several times. Guess what he is happy with with an E90 325. So long you know how to deal with corner, use your gear well, it's not too slow.
Happy hunting!
Vroom325
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Forgot to mention, parts of E46 is much cheaper too.
My whole set, 4pcs of absorber only 1000+, bilstein. Black one, B4 I think, but good enough.
Also not forgetting the technology behind a german car, it's amazing.
Even my E46 is smart enough to realize I need max brake power, just by lifting my gas pedal fast and switch to brake and start stepping on it, by the time my brake pedal travelled half, the brake is already at it's maximum boost. My car speed has dropped so so much in few seconds time. All that done without passenger feeling it.
there's once I come back from Taiping on NS hiways and going downhill, once I got a clear view of front(going down hill) it's traffic jam, cars are lining up and not moving and I was driving 120km. I brake hard, not kicking it though, it stopped without a sweat, shake, sense of danger at all, rock steady. All my passengers still goyang kaki. Only the driver knows what could have happened and appreciate it.
There are so many examples and E90 on all these stuff is even better then E46.
Still, the E46 is better then other japanese car.
Not that I look down on Japanese cars, they all built for different purposes, segment.
I came from there. I understand, in different stage of life you need different car.
If car is merely a mode of transport, it should be Japanese cars. Spend the money else where which makes you happy.
If driving pleasure mean something to you, strike a balance between driving pleasure and economy.
I dont want to live everyday driving a souless machine to exchange a few day of fun.
I rather drive everyday happily on the road, to the extend I purposely drive out at night to enjoy it.
You will know when you experience Autobahn, and will understand why German cars are built this way.
Bear in mind, even German cars are all different in some way, I like BMW because they follow their principle, which I like.
However, through out the years, and competition, they have to change to survive, I can understand. Reasonable enough.
Business is there to make money.
One thing never changes, RWD + 50:50 weight distribution chassis = good handling character is still in their DNA.
Get a friend in the forum to pop up a BMW 3 series bonnet to tell you why the car is built this way.
It's being built purposely in a not so effective way, just to achieve RWD + 50:50 chassis.
Why the cabin is so small?(front and rear)
Why the front wheel hang out to the extend right after the headlamp?
Why the trunk is so damn small?
Why are there so many plastics under the hood?
Why is the interior so boring, only red?
Why the steering so heavy, can't do parking with one finger?
I can talk the whole night about this.
My point is, know what is important and what you can afford.
Reserach and get experience people in this forum to equip yourself.
when the right car comes, strike, don't wait.
Good used car strategy is different from new car.
All my 3 cars in the list are all used.
Good luck!
My whole set, 4pcs of absorber only 1000+, bilstein. Black one, B4 I think, but good enough.
Also not forgetting the technology behind a german car, it's amazing.
Even my E46 is smart enough to realize I need max brake power, just by lifting my gas pedal fast and switch to brake and start stepping on it, by the time my brake pedal travelled half, the brake is already at it's maximum boost. My car speed has dropped so so much in few seconds time. All that done without passenger feeling it.
there's once I come back from Taiping on NS hiways and going downhill, once I got a clear view of front(going down hill) it's traffic jam, cars are lining up and not moving and I was driving 120km. I brake hard, not kicking it though, it stopped without a sweat, shake, sense of danger at all, rock steady. All my passengers still goyang kaki. Only the driver knows what could have happened and appreciate it.
There are so many examples and E90 on all these stuff is even better then E46.
Still, the E46 is better then other japanese car.
Not that I look down on Japanese cars, they all built for different purposes, segment.
I came from there. I understand, in different stage of life you need different car.
If car is merely a mode of transport, it should be Japanese cars. Spend the money else where which makes you happy.
If driving pleasure mean something to you, strike a balance between driving pleasure and economy.
I dont want to live everyday driving a souless machine to exchange a few day of fun.
I rather drive everyday happily on the road, to the extend I purposely drive out at night to enjoy it.
You will know when you experience Autobahn, and will understand why German cars are built this way.
Bear in mind, even German cars are all different in some way, I like BMW because they follow their principle, which I like.
However, through out the years, and competition, they have to change to survive, I can understand. Reasonable enough.
Business is there to make money.
One thing never changes, RWD + 50:50 weight distribution chassis = good handling character is still in their DNA.
Get a friend in the forum to pop up a BMW 3 series bonnet to tell you why the car is built this way.
It's being built purposely in a not so effective way, just to achieve RWD + 50:50 chassis.
Why the cabin is so small?(front and rear)
Why the front wheel hang out to the extend right after the headlamp?
Why the trunk is so damn small?
Why are there so many plastics under the hood?
Why is the interior so boring, only red?
Why the steering so heavy, can't do parking with one finger?
I can talk the whole night about this.
My point is, know what is important and what you can afford.
Reserach and get experience people in this forum to equip yourself.
when the right car comes, strike, don't wait.
Good used car strategy is different from new car.
All my 3 cars in the list are all used.
Good luck!
Seriously so far my 08 320i has no electronic issues save for the engine oil indicator which was solved eventually without breaking my wallet.
The rest are mechanical issues common to e46 that got carried over to e90 which is mainly coolant leaking issue (I've changed from e46 to e90).
E46 has been more raw and visceral to me. You can feel the vibration from the steering and hear the engine's metallic rasp.
To me the e90 is more refined and more comfortable. It probably corners faster then the e46 but you barely feel it. That's why given a choice I would take the e46 m3 over the e92/90 m3.
Just my two cents.
The rest are mechanical issues common to e46 that got carried over to e90 which is mainly coolant leaking issue (I've changed from e46 to e90).
E46 has been more raw and visceral to me. You can feel the vibration from the steering and hear the engine's metallic rasp.
To me the e90 is more refined and more comfortable. It probably corners faster then the e46 but you barely feel it. That's why given a choice I would take the e46 m3 over the e92/90 m3.
Just my two cents.
Wow confusing thread , if want BMW get official preown not ap, not second hand as only official pre own ala premium selection got bsri and warranty . Buy those may be more expensive up front but no surprise . U get cheap one now 3 month down the road gearbox spoil u think ap dealer give warranty if do also kedai potong .then u blame BMW no good .
Simple if not sure hold purchase till you are sure
Simple if not sure hold purchase till you are sure
t2ribena
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very 'interesting' thread...from e46 vs e90 to 320d vs 325i (e90)...
i'm attracted to the post saying 325i is only half the feel of 320d...seriously? in what sense? i think what i can come up with is that with the 325i you only experience half of the premature ejaculation that the 320d suffers....hahahahahahahahahhah
i'm attracted to the post saying 325i is only half the feel of 320d...seriously? in what sense? i think what i can come up with is that with the 325i you only experience half of the premature ejaculation that the 320d suffers....hahahahahahahahahhah
I had one water pump leak (replaced with new one) and now the Y pipe from the engine is leaking. I heard the front intercooler leaks too and I saw many 05 ones changing them at the workshop. Mine so far not yet or not sure.
E46 has control arm issues (if you hear sound whilst steering), whining rear diff. By 9 years most of the e46's rubber bushings are all worn. Not sure about e90's rubber bushings. 4 years so far no issues. Yet.
The good part about e90 is that if the coolant is low, the OBC will warn you. As for e46, you are on your own unless you pop the bonnet.
E46 has control arm issues (if you hear sound whilst steering), whining rear diff. By 9 years most of the e46's rubber bushings are all worn. Not sure about e90's rubber bushings. 4 years so far no issues. Yet.
The good part about e90 is that if the coolant is low, the OBC will warn you. As for e46, you are on your own unless you pop the bonnet.
merced88,
Perhaps you might want to start with a budget and work backwards from there?
I was in the same situation as you beginning of this year. I budgetted RM150k, which could have got me a good well kept E46 325i (with cash to spare), or an average 6 yr old E90 325i. But then i factored in the just-in-case replacemnt of certain expensive parts and the budget suddenly shrunk by alot. Reading thru the forum i am sure you can more or less see some of the parts are 'timed' or 'lifed'. So you need to replace them at certain age.
I ended by buying the best E46 325i I could find, which was from a fellow forummer. All receipts from a reputable BMW specialist. The previous owner spend close to RM35k changing parts (I counted the receipts one by one). I paid a premium for it but I think its been worth every cent. Plus its waaay below my budget of RM150k so i get to shower it with lots of care and new parts and treatments (Sierra Glow, Autofoam etc) and still have spare to take a short holiday. The car has been giving me orgasms every night and i love it to bits.
Still, you cant run away from expenses. I had to rebuilt my gearbox last week, which costs me a bit, but that was about the only big thing that gave up. The rest were all preventive maintenance.
In planning your purchase of a Bimmer, i would factor the cost into 4 big buckets as below:
1. Cost of your Car
2. Cost of things you need to fix Immediately (perhaps to patch up a small dent from previous owner, cracked lights, minor oil leaks etc)
3. Cost of things you need to change as Preventive (these are the things u change just to be sure you dont get stranded by the road with your family at a small winding road at 2am in the morning. For E46, its the alternator, crank sensor & fuel pump) Of course there are other parts as well so do get advice from your friendly BMW specialist.
4. Cost of things you need to budget for in future (for E46, its your gearbox which will last about 150k km, although mine went all the way to 200k km)
1, 2, & 3 are things you need to have the budget for immediately. For 4 you can have time to save up, provided these things downt give trouble too soon.
As some of the forummers say, this is a car to be driven. You really need to enjoy it. Its the ultimate driving machine.
To enjoy it to the max, you need to maintain it and treat it with respect and love. So pls budget in all these 4 points above into your consideration.
Just like many bros here, i came from a mainstream Japanese car. Low maintenance and easy to drive. But you got to understand that the UDM is different, and you got to "pay to play".
With either models, just do the due diligence and execute your purchase. You will not regret it. Just make sure you structure your budget to cover for the above 4 buckets.
If you think too much, you will end up not buying.
My 0.2 cents worth
Perhaps you might want to start with a budget and work backwards from there?
I was in the same situation as you beginning of this year. I budgetted RM150k, which could have got me a good well kept E46 325i (with cash to spare), or an average 6 yr old E90 325i. But then i factored in the just-in-case replacemnt of certain expensive parts and the budget suddenly shrunk by alot. Reading thru the forum i am sure you can more or less see some of the parts are 'timed' or 'lifed'. So you need to replace them at certain age.
I ended by buying the best E46 325i I could find, which was from a fellow forummer. All receipts from a reputable BMW specialist. The previous owner spend close to RM35k changing parts (I counted the receipts one by one). I paid a premium for it but I think its been worth every cent. Plus its waaay below my budget of RM150k so i get to shower it with lots of care and new parts and treatments (Sierra Glow, Autofoam etc) and still have spare to take a short holiday. The car has been giving me orgasms every night and i love it to bits.
Still, you cant run away from expenses. I had to rebuilt my gearbox last week, which costs me a bit, but that was about the only big thing that gave up. The rest were all preventive maintenance.
In planning your purchase of a Bimmer, i would factor the cost into 4 big buckets as below:
1. Cost of your Car
2. Cost of things you need to fix Immediately (perhaps to patch up a small dent from previous owner, cracked lights, minor oil leaks etc)
3. Cost of things you need to change as Preventive (these are the things u change just to be sure you dont get stranded by the road with your family at a small winding road at 2am in the morning. For E46, its the alternator, crank sensor & fuel pump) Of course there are other parts as well so do get advice from your friendly BMW specialist.
4. Cost of things you need to budget for in future (for E46, its your gearbox which will last about 150k km, although mine went all the way to 200k km)
1, 2, & 3 are things you need to have the budget for immediately. For 4 you can have time to save up, provided these things downt give trouble too soon.
As some of the forummers say, this is a car to be driven. You really need to enjoy it. Its the ultimate driving machine.
To enjoy it to the max, you need to maintain it and treat it with respect and love. So pls budget in all these 4 points above into your consideration.
Just like many bros here, i came from a mainstream Japanese car. Low maintenance and easy to drive. But you got to understand that the UDM is different, and you got to "pay to play".
With either models, just do the due diligence and execute your purchase. You will not regret it. Just make sure you structure your budget to cover for the above 4 buckets.
If you think too much, you will end up not buying.
My 0.2 cents worth
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