Wheel alignment (BMW KDS)

[viewfinder]

Apparently hardly anyone does wheel alignment at Service Center. But there's no tire shop which does it per BMW spec that I am aware of in Penang (correct me if I am wrong). Things I learned:

• The alignment machine follows BMW spec and calibrated by BMW M'sia
• It prompts whether the car has active steering or not (surely there's reason behind this but I don't know why)
• Each individual alignment sensor (1 per wheel) is attached to BMW original rim via 5 perfect fitting metal rods thru the 5 small holes in between the nut holes (refer to the rim picture someone posted in BMWCM forum). Finally the purpose about those 5 small holes is known.
• The fitting above ensures that alignment is reference from the center hub instead of at the edge of each rim. This ensures no margin of error be it the rim being imperfect or improper attachment of the sensors to the rims. Apparently Benz standard spec alignment is done the same way too.
• Weight ballast is placed inside car (back seat I think) to achieve a specific ride height while doing the alignment.

Result? Have yet to really try it out. But good to know it's done per specification and not some quick haphazard job at many tire shops.Anyone who has done the same alignment job, please share your experience before/after.http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8251&d=1236248148

 

[E46Fanatic]

The steering angle sensors for cars with Active Steering is actually read from the GT1 but somehow integrated into the BMW KDS II alignment process. If these alignment shops use the GT1 and follow instructions from the KDS II step by step guide, then it'll be as good as the SC's alignment process.

A few of us have done alignment at AB (Segambut) and Ingress. What you'll visually notice after the alignment job (which takes 3-4 hrs!) is that the camber pins on the shock tower mounts are removed as well. What I also noticed from the KDS II readout, is that it prompts the alignment guy to inspect the tyres for the BMW STAR OEM tyre markings, and result of finding needs to be keyed into the KDS II as well. I wonder how this OEM Star rated tyres impact or influence the alignment in anyway. Reason also that KDS II needs ride height readings is to calibrate the alignment spec according to the specific ride height of the car.

 

[viewfinder]

E46Fanatics, what's GT1? I don't think I've come across such alignment machine name.

By the way the BMW KDS machine at AB S.C. Pg is made by Beissbarth. The well known tire centers in Pg don't use anything as sophisticated.

 

[E46Fanatic]

It a diagnostic machine made for BMW by Siemens which plugs into your car. Touch screen hand held panel is wirelessly connected to your car once the yellow probe is plugged to the OBD port at the driver footwell. All SC's have this cool little device.

Looks something like this:

 

[astroboy]

Wow! Now I know why the alignment job is so costly at SC. Weight ballast is a logical thing to do to achieve a realistic usage environment.

 

[xstatic]

Wow! Now I know why the alignment job is so costly at SC. Weight ballast is a logical thing to do to achieve a realistic usage environment.

btw, how much is it to do alignment at SC? can they also do alignment for aftermarket rims? ( change frm stock to 18inch)

 

[viewfinder]

xstatic, don't if compatible with after market rims. You will have to give them a call and find it the cost also. As for E90 with orig rim ~RM270+tax just for alignment alone!

 

[gameover]

Is it not available at all service centers? I took mine to AB Sg Besi and as far as I can tell they do it somewhere outside. This was within the warranty period so I had no idea what it costs. The results sucked to be honest.

 

[clint]

Is it not available at all service centers? I took mine to AB Sg Besi and as far as I can tell they do it somewhere outside. This was within the warranty period so I had no idea what it costs. The results sucked to be honest.

yes, they bring it outside becuase i insisted to see thier machine. they finally told me they bring it outside.

 

[E46Fanatic]

I believe its now RM400+ for the complete job at the SC which includes camber adjustment. Insist on the KDS II readout and if done at AB Segambut you can even see how they do it as the alignment bay is next to the showroom area.

 

[viewfinder]

gameover, clint: AB in Pg apparently offers 2 different alignment job package. Different price obviously. One on site with the Beissbarth machine that I mentioned above. Another one is their outside vendor and not the Beissbarth machine.

E46Fanatics, care to elaborate what you mean by 'includes camber adjustment'. If doesn't include camber adjustment, how do they do wheel alignment??? Just take measurement and no correction?!

 

[E46Fanatic]

E46Fanatics, care to elaborate what you mean by 'includes camber adjustment'. If doesn't include camber adjustment, how do they do wheel alignment??? Just take measurement and no correction?!

Some shops quote alignment price and optional camber adjustment price separately. Just stating that this price includes both.

 

[attenbrough]

Basically what I noticed is that after market wheels with the small holes next to the nut holes should be able to work with the KDS system....

It's German Tech to adjust the wheel from the middle instead of adding "weights" at the side of the rims. I've done some survey and saw these holes available with all standard BMW rims, AC Rims.. yet to check our on other after markets....

Good luck and thanks for sharing ya....

 

[NCH]

I just got my car back from Quill. Sent it in because my car always pulls to the left while driving. If I'm driving straight on a highway at 100 km/h, 5 to 7 seconds later I'll end up on the left lane when my hands are off the steering wheel.

Please take a look at the KDS II measurement printout and tell me if something's not right.

They claimed to have done the wheel alignment twice but the problem is there. This is very frustrating because my car never received the treatment required at the service centre. I always leave after hearing excuses like "we checked and found no faults", "it's the uneven road that pulls the car to the left" ... sickening!

 

[Schwepps]

The figures show that your alignment and camber were only slightly out in the first place, and have now been fixed. Try swopping wheels left-to-right to see if the opposite effect happens - then it's a tyre or wheel. If it still pulls to the left after swopping, it's time to ask them to check your suspension and steering assemblies.

PS: Go to a dealer with proper suspension checking equipment; I can't remember, but I think Ingress has it. You may have to agree to pay for the check initially, as it's not covered under BSRI, but if they find a fault, it will all be under warranty claim.

PPS: If Quill isn't interested in returning your car to your complete satisfaction, why go to them? There IS a reason one dealer has won the Dealer of the Year award for 3 years running... :wink:

 

[astroboy]

Can someone care to explain why the Rear Axle Camber between left and right why so much difference?

-1'58 (left) vs -1'25 (right)

So your left rear is leaning in extra 0'33 giving it the tendency to pull out, resulting in vehicle veering to the left..

To make matter worst, both front and rear left toe is 0'01 more than the right.. if this car is not veering to the left, I potong!

BTW, this is my reading b4 alignment job... U can notice the rear camber is recommended -1'30 (green), yet I opt for -1'10 because I don't drive aggressive enough resulting in obvious inner wear of my rear RFT tyres.

Below is E46Fanatic's posting in the other thread: http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/showpost.php?p=402702&postcount=26

Tot I'll share the measurement printout from BMW's KDS II machine from my last alignment there. Can't figure out what some of the figures mean, but the significant part was the drive not the figures

Rear Axle:
Camber -1:38
Toe + 0.09
Total Toe +0.18
Geometrical driving axis 0.00

Front Axle:
Castor 20deg: +7.13
Cross Castor: +0:01
Toe out on turns: -2:01
Cross Toe out on turns: +0.02
Camber: -0:54
Cross Camber + 0:10
Individual Toe : 0:05
Total Toe: +0.11

Tyre Pressures:
Rear 2.4
Front 2.2

Tyre Depth:
8mm (all 4)

Ride Height:
Ride Heignt Rear: +577mm
Ride Height Front: +587mm

Left out the individual readings between right and left as they were similar.

 

[Schwepps]

Can someone care to explain why the Rear Axle Camber between left and right why so much difference?

-1'58 (left) vs -1'25 (right)

So your left rear is leaning in extra 0'33 giving it the tendency to pull out, resulting in vehicle veering to the left..

To make matter worst, both front and rear left toe is 0'01 more than the right.. if this car is not veering to the left, I potong!

Why the difference? A car will pull to the side that has more positive camber, not the other way around. Right-hand drive vehicles are specified with more positive camber on the right to compensate for crowning of roads (inside higher than outside for drainage)

The toe having 1 minute difference is negligible. You'll get more than that just from changes in ride height when you get in the car and as speeds go up.

NCH's alignment is now well within design tolerances. It's not always alignment that causes drifting to the side.

 

[astroboy]

If what Schwepps says is true, then the drifting can possibly be caused of the irregularly worn tyre damaged by the bad alignment before the rectification. Now have to wait for the tyre to bed in with the new alignment settings.

In reply to Schwepps feedback above, 33 minutes of difference in camber sounds like a lot, quarter degree? The crowning of the road izzit commonly mid lifted or right lifted so water from the road only drain one side

, or both side [mid lifted]? If mid lifted, then if I drive on the fast lane, the right drifting effect shall be amplified by the mid lifting road contour.

But E46Fanatic did confirm in his posting about both left right setting were "similar". Same as in my case, my rear camber both -1'10 and no drifting felt. Can eat nenas potong in belacan sauce at 140kph.. ​

 

[NCH]

Why the difference? A car will pull to the side that has more positive camber, not the other way around. Right-hand drive vehicles are specified with more positive camber on the right to compensate for crowning of roads (inside higher than outside for drainage)

The toe having 1 minute difference is negligible. You'll get more than that just from changes in ride height when you get in the car and as speeds go up.

NCH's alignment is now well within design tolerances. It's not always alignment that causes drifting to the side.

Exactly. SC told me they did alignment 2 or 3 times but the car still pulls to one side while driving. I hope they'll do something else instead of alignment and saying it's the road crowning.

 

[Schwepps]

The problem is that they know it's not the alignment, but they're not willing to find the real cause and fix it. It could be because all this is not covered by BSRI claim and so is at their cost. That's why I'm suggesting that you start with swopping to see if it's tyre wear or wheel defect. Then check suspension and steering. But do these at another dealer.

Having good wheel alignment is more to ensure even tyre wear than straight-line travel. Bad pulling to the side is caused more by other problems like tyre, wheel, suspension, steering and chassis.