The big debate on RWD vs FWD....
- Thread starter E46Fanatic
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i too favour a slightly oversteery car. easier to take the turns as the rear tightens up the lines instead of the nose pushing wide.
that said, it is not impossible to tune a FWD for oversteer. anyone who thinks a FWD will only understeer needs to take a ride in my fat pig of a 156 at sepang.
also, ive seen RWD cars understeer like hogs. yes, im talking about ur bimmers here, too.
so im gonna just stick to the under/oversteer references and keep the FWD/RWD out of this. im sure most of u who've tracked recently know of this one particular white FWD which ran rings around RWD and 4WD cars.
for novices, an understeering car is safer and more confidence inspiring. its more "instinctive" to recover from understeer vs oversteer. oversteer is more fun and dramatic, but also more punishing and less forgiving of mistakes.
at the end of the day, its who's quicker on the track that counts. in most cases, novices will be quicker in an understeering car due to higher confidence level and easier to drive on the limit.
where's the f.man when u want him?
e46f, i remember a few years back a certain FWD marque won the ETCC (as it was called then) 2 yrs in a row. i guess things musta changed since then cos RWD cars won this year. maybe FWD will be back in vogue again next year, who knows eh?
redd
that said, it is not impossible to tune a FWD for oversteer. anyone who thinks a FWD will only understeer needs to take a ride in my fat pig of a 156 at sepang.
also, ive seen RWD cars understeer like hogs. yes, im talking about ur bimmers here, too.
so im gonna just stick to the under/oversteer references and keep the FWD/RWD out of this. im sure most of u who've tracked recently know of this one particular white FWD which ran rings around RWD and 4WD cars.
for novices, an understeering car is safer and more confidence inspiring. its more "instinctive" to recover from understeer vs oversteer. oversteer is more fun and dramatic, but also more punishing and less forgiving of mistakes.
at the end of the day, its who's quicker on the track that counts. in most cases, novices will be quicker in an understeering car due to higher confidence level and easier to drive on the limit.
where's the f.man when u want him?
e46f, i remember a few years back a certain FWD marque won the ETCC (as it was called then) 2 yrs in a row. i guess things musta changed since then cos RWD cars won this year. maybe FWD will be back in vogue again next year, who knows eh?
redd
Unless you have more than 250hp and you push it to the limit which i assume most of you don't, this argument is pointless. At the limit most fwd drive car can handle as weel as the rwd. It's stupid to say my car is rear wheel drive but my car is a puny 318i therefore it handles better than say Alfa 156 2.0 or worse still cooper s. Remember, in late 60's to early 70's when cars do not have the power as they do now FWD drive Lancia Fulvia dominates rally championships beating the likes of porsche 911s and Alpine A160.
E46Fanatic
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I guess the debate is not over after all LOL ...
Maybe there are other reasons behind the FIA hadicapping the BMWs in WTCC... who knows :dunno:
Having said that, you guys are right that there are certainly some FWD street cars modded or stock which will take on RWD cars on the track. No doubt about it. But then again, the comparison is not equal as they don't compete under one set of common regulations, in terms of competition rules, mod/weight restrictions etc. Best way to see the comparos is to look at regulated competition. In such cases, Redd is also right that in the past FWD marques have won in such competitions in the past..... My take is that they should not have such handicaps which discriminate RWDs, and just let whoever is best walkover the competition like they deserve. Overtime, the best man/team wins regardless FWD or RWD..
Maybe there are other reasons behind the FIA hadicapping the BMWs in WTCC... who knows :dunno:
Having said that, you guys are right that there are certainly some FWD street cars modded or stock which will take on RWD cars on the track. No doubt about it. But then again, the comparison is not equal as they don't compete under one set of common regulations, in terms of competition rules, mod/weight restrictions etc. Best way to see the comparos is to look at regulated competition. In such cases, Redd is also right that in the past FWD marques have won in such competitions in the past..... My take is that they should not have such handicaps which discriminate RWDs, and just let whoever is best walkover the competition like they deserve. Overtime, the best man/team wins regardless FWD or RWD..
e46f, dun get ur panties all in a twist over the handicapping. its what makes ETCC/WTCC fun.
every time there is a car that is clearly ahead of its peers due to a difference in layout, they handicap the car. the same thing happened when the audi A4 was dominating ETCC with quattro for several seasons. they do this to promote a closer fight and to make the competition more exciting (as opposed to F1 circa 2002-2004 which got a tad boring).
so its happened before and it will happen again.
redd
every time there is a car that is clearly ahead of its peers due to a difference in layout, they handicap the car. the same thing happened when the audi A4 was dominating ETCC with quattro for several seasons. they do this to promote a closer fight and to make the competition more exciting (as opposed to F1 circa 2002-2004 which got a tad boring).
so its happened before and it will happen again.
redd
fyi, that certain FWD marque will be pulling out of WTCC for 2006 while waiting for the launch of the 159. 156 has stopped production so there's no point racing it anymore, and they didnt see the sense in running a 147.
there might be privateer teams running alfas for 2006 with factory support but no works teams from alfa itself.
redd
there might be privateer teams running alfas for 2006 with factory support but no works teams from alfa itself.
redd
OSFlanker
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The debate will never end! The E46 WTCC is a truly remarkable race car, and it will be a legend of touring car racing like the E30 M3, unlike the E36 BTCC car which was totally dominated over by the Alfa 155. Therefore it is not just about RWD vs FWD, the development and design of the E46 touring car is probably unparalled in touring car history, with the full weight of BMW Motorsport behind it and capably run by Schitzner. The presence of Dr Mario Theissen at most of the WTCC races say much of the importance of touring car racing to BMW.
Don't forget the BMW WTCC has the biggest budget with the most number of factory or semi-factory backed teams in the competition.
Also keep in mind certain tracks will favour RWD whereas certain tracks the advantage is not so significant. At Magny Cours the BMW WTCC cars totally blitzed the field, as the tight circuit enables the RWD BMW's to lay down the power coming out of the slow corners.
There were tracks where the seats and Alfa's did well, even overpowering the BMW's that were not carrying extra weight ballast.
Like most race car setups, there is no one "superior" formula. The track layout & condition may negate the advantage that a RWD have over the FWD.
Don't forget the BMW WTCC has the biggest budget with the most number of factory or semi-factory backed teams in the competition.
Also keep in mind certain tracks will favour RWD whereas certain tracks the advantage is not so significant. At Magny Cours the BMW WTCC cars totally blitzed the field, as the tight circuit enables the RWD BMW's to lay down the power coming out of the slow corners.
There were tracks where the seats and Alfa's did well, even overpowering the BMW's that were not carrying extra weight ballast.
Like most race car setups, there is no one "superior" formula. The track layout & condition may negate the advantage that a RWD have over the FWD.
OSFlanker
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This is where the big budget of BMW Motorsport shows through. The E46 has already been replaced by the E90 but while still racing the E46 WTCC, the E90 WTCC will be racing next season while Alfa has to take a one-year sabbatical to develop the 159. In racing, $$$ helps!Originally posted by Redd@Nov 22 2005, 09:01 PM
fyi, that certain FWD marque will be pulling out of WTCC for 2006 while waiting for the launch of the 159. 156 has stopped production so there's no point racing it anymore, and they didnt see the sense in running a 147.
there might be privateer teams running alfas for 2006 with factory support but no works teams from alfa itself.
redd
supergripen
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the 159 will be featured in next week's Automotor And Sports on NTV7,tuesday 1300..wud be interesting to see how the car fares..
can't wait to see the 159 WTCC vs the E90 WTCC race..
can't wait to see the 159 WTCC vs the E90 WTCC race..
Zoggee
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I know la...hehe.!!Originally posted by Redd@Nov 24 2005, 01:13 AM
aiya zoggee im tokking bout intl motorsports competition la. not weekend warriors like ourselves where the skill levels are vastly different. im sure all else being equal, u'll drive circles around me la.
redd
But I love all spiced up international racing cars la. I have no coments on how they handles. I'm in no position to comment.
The Necessary
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Dear God, why has this topic been resurrected?
RWD/4WD will always be superior to FWD.
It is simply a matter of physics.
There can be no arguement.
RWD/4WD will always be superior to FWD.
It is simply a matter of physics.
There can be no arguement.
The Necessary
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I love you.
