milkly sludge at radiator cap E46 328i

[viewfinder]

FIR767, what was your E90 mileage when the ATF/coolant contamination happened?

How does one determine if the oil cooler is leaking (internally) or not?

Actually, how is the oil cooler constructed internally that the ATF can leak into water? Imagine radiator fins and tubes... would the tube leak? If not and the leak is on the hose connection (which has o-ring), then it's just leak out to the floor...

 

[sillycarx]

Hey, I am facing the same prolbem on my E90 325 2005. I changed my ATF at 98k, and then when I did my 100k service, I saw that my radiator water was full of milky brown sludge. So, the engine oil which got drained was completely clean, so there was no cross contamination. And then I took the car into AB penang, and they drain the ATF, and the ATF was clean. So the Penang AB said, they have no idea, since engine oil is clean, engine block was good, ATF oil was clean. they only requested me to flush my radiator and see if the problem goes away.

There was few screw up. When I changed my ATF in AB glemarie, they only put in 5l of ATF. ( kinda weird, but at first I didn't think too much of it). Then yesterday, when I took the car into AB penang, they drained the ATF, and saw it was clean, and put it back. But when they put it back, they had to put in extra 3 L.

So even if the AB glenmarie only put 5 l, you only need to add extra 1-2 L and not 3L. I wonder if the contamination is from the ATF, and it is a 1 way contamination like FIR767 said.

 

[FIRZ67]

FIR767, what was your E90 mileage when the ATF/coolant contamination happened?

How does one determine if the oil cooler is leaking (internally) or not?

Actually, how is the oil cooler constructed internally that the ATF can leak into water? Imagine radiator fins and tubes... would the tube leak? If not and the leak is on the hose connection (which has o-ring), then it's just leak out to the floor...

My mileage was at 60K when the problem occured. Can't determined by OBC /diagnostic, only felt my gearshift a bit jerky and when to check the ATF fliud level but mechanic try open the expansion tank cover and found out full of ATF and it will float on the surface.Since my case is just a week after changing the radiator, it could be a mishandling issues during changing of radiator.

Sillycarx,
When this thing happened to my car, I only need 1.5 liter of ATF top up only. How come yours 3 ltrs?

 

[mkmy]

salam

i thought i cud have encountered an isolated case whereby my duly booked 318 e46 2.0l was detected to contain sort of emulsion/contaminant in its coolant tank until i saw this thread yesterday. and currently she's being overhauled and according to the mechanic, it was due to block gasket failure (burnt gasket were his exact words). He also refuted the possibility that the atf culd have leaked thru.

 

[sillycarx]

I went and question the machanic which replaced my ATF. He said when he draw the ATF out of the ATF oil sump, there was some amount that was spill, and on top of that, I am not sure if the AB in Glemarie refilled by ATF to the top, since they only replaced 5l. Damn this AB glenmarie.

Anyway, after about 200 KM drive after cleaning my expansion tank, the contamination seems to be either very very minimal or none. Since I only see very little contamination whcih could be left over. So yestrday I got the AB penang to remove my ATF cooler ( heat exchanger) so that I could inspect it. From the inspection, I don't see anything, in it. But the mechanic did ask around other AB service site... and apparently there were 2 cases of contamination. But interestingly the contamination was the opposite direction with the engine oil, and no report of ATF contamination.

For the engine oil, the contamination happen on 1 case is with the engine head gasket, and that caused water to get into the engine block, while another case was at teh engine oil cooler. But both cases, the contamination was 1 direction from radiator cooler to engine oil line.

So now, I am back to wait and see if the contamination is happening.

 

[Jack Bauer]

My dad's E46, 2001 also facing the milky sludge problem..initially it just a small leak since I noticed some greenish color liquid around the water tank wall and cap. It is oredi 3 months this prob happened and he just keep topping up raw water into the water tank - once a week. But yesterday I found the milky sludge has building up around the area (see photo attached).

I'm bringing the car to workshop this weekend and hopefully it will not crack my pocket (mmm..my dad's actually)..praying to be the oil seal of the oil cooler only...RM80 plus2 right..huhu

 

[jarance]

The milky sludge is due to expired coolant. The leak is to due hairline crack in the expansion tank.

It would cost you about RM90 to change the expansion tank. Your thermostat is most probably need to be change due to the sludge built. please change the coolant ASAP as well.

Most probably you will need to change the radiator, rubber hoses and other thermostat as well for it is quite common for these to fail around the same time as the life span of these items have expired.

 

[tropos_net]

i was looking at this for a while and thot that swapping the original oil-water cooler to oil-air (eg HKS etc) would do some good. but 2 things come into mind
1 - the original position could be bad as there is no direct air flow as the fan shroud blocks it.
2 - what size cooler to use depends on the ATF pump capacity located inside g/box

also monitoring the temp could be an issue as there seems no way to know the ATF temp (except thru modic). has anyone done this successfully?

 

[coffin]

My mileage was at 60K when the problem occured. Can't determined by OBC /diagnostic, only felt my gearshift a bit jerky and when to check the ATF fliud level but mechanic try open the expansion tank cover and found out full of ATF and it will float on the surface.Since my case is just a week after changing the radiator, it could be a mishandling issues during changing of radiator.

Sillycarx,
When this thing happened to my car, I only need 1.5 liter of ATF top up only. How come yours 3 ltrs?

If i'm not mistaken correct me if i'm wrong. ATF oil pressure is more than the water pressure, this is commons in engineering design to protect your engine if the cooler fail or leaks. Gear box have oil sensor if level low. So ATF must leak to the radiator and your ATF amount less than before. Check your radiator if any milky sludge contaminated again? Normally your need to drain the radiator to check.
Because oil density is less than water (0.98), water (1.0) so the oil is settle down in your radiator.
after long period of time circulation of water the milky sludge appear due oil compound fail and mix with water.
:rock:

 

[Jack Bauer]

The milky sludge is due to expired coolant. The leak is to due hairline crack in the expansion tank.

It would cost you about RM90 to change the expansion tank. Your thermostat is most probably need to be change due to the sludge built. please change the coolant ASAP as well.

Most probably you will need to change the radiator, rubber hoses and other thermostat as well for it is quite common for these to fail around the same time as the life span of these items have expired.

jarance,
but my dad told me he already flush the radiator and replaced the coolant 3 months ago. Before doing that, he need to top up water every week and the sludge is NOT presence there, but after the service then came the milky sludge thing, and still need to top up water on weekly basis..any idea?
This morning, after driving to work for 30min, I found that there is some water leaking thru at the top of the tank..

 

[jarance]

i was looking at this for a while and thot that swapping the original oil-water cooler to oil-air (eg HKS etc) would do some good. but 2 things come into mind
1 - the original position could be bad as there is no direct air flow as the fan shroud blocks it.
2 - what size cooler to use depends on the ATF pump capacity located inside g/box

also monitoring the temp could be an issue as there seems no way to know the ATF temp (except thru modic). has anyone done this successfully?

E36 used air cool heat exchanger (radiator). It is located just behind the radiator fins. (just above the water heat exchanger). One of the forummer JohnJ have modified his for the ATF cooling.

I presume that cooler depend on the type of gearbox. try looking at the E36 heat exchanger.

 

[jarance]

jarance,
but my dad told me he already flush the radiator and replaced the coolant 3 months ago. Before doing that, he need to top up water every week and the sludge is NOT presence there, but after the service then came the milky sludge thing, and still need to top up water on weekly basis..any idea?
This morning, after driving to work for 30min, I found that there is some water leaking thru at the top of the tank..

JB, ask you dad how he flushed the radiator? There are 2 thermostats for the E46 cooling system. One for the engine and the other for the GB. Basically, only open when the set temperature have been reached. So if you are flushing with COLD water, the amount of water thru the thermostat is very minimal. If you look at the design of the thermostat, there is a small gap to allow small water flow during cold condition. Hot water from the engine would fully flow thru the radiator when the thermostat open. So how effective is the flushing when the thermostat is close when the flushing is done with cold water?

Your picture show water stain on the expansion tank. It is not sludge. If the water is coming from the top, it could be due to a faulty radiator cap.

To determine source of leak is to clean up all the water stain and recheck it for fresh water stain.

Here is a picture of white sludge found in my radiator.

 

[tropos_net]

there is this red plastic level gauge thingy which floats around with the water level when the main radiator cap is opened. it looks broken on mine. can this be changed separately or it comes along with the radiator?

 

[jarance]

there is this red plastic level gauge thingy which floats around with the water level when the main radiator cap is opened. it looks broken on mine. can this be changed separately or it comes along with the radiator?

post a picture of the orange float.. :smokin:

 

[solo]

there is this red plastic level gauge thingy which floats around with the water level when the main radiator cap is opened. it looks broken on mine. can this be changed separately or it comes along with the radiator?

Unfortunately it's one unit together with the Expansion Tank. So you have to change the whole Expansion Tank.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Did some self-checking this morning and i found the exact problem of leaking. It is not from the tank, but from the elbow connected the tank head to the hose. So after my dad serviced the radiator, and replaced new coolant, it leaked thru the elbow, then white sludge (coolant) deposited around the tank area due to the leaked coolant being heated.
So guys, what is your suggestion?, replace the elbow only, or I need to replaced the elbow + add coolant to top up the leak amount, replace new set or can get half cut one? tq

 

[jarance]

Did some self-checking this morning and i found the exact problem of leaking. It is not from the tank, but from the elbow connected the tank head to the hose. So after my dad serviced the radiator, and replaced new coolant, it leaked thru the elbow, then white sludge (coolant) deposited around the tank area due to the leaked coolant being heated.
So guys, what is your suggestion?, replace the elbow only, or I need to replaced the elbow + add coolant to top up the leak amount, replace new set or can get half cut one? tq

The elbow is the weakest point of the radiator because it is plastic. 10 out 10 leaks found are usually from this area. It happen to my E36 and E46.

Have try to seal the leak many time before but it only work for a few months. The leak will come back.

I dont think you can just replace the elbow of the radiator cos it is an integral part of the radiator unless the part that is leaking is from the expansion tank. If the part that is leaking is the expansion tank, then you can just change it without changing the radiator.

Dont go for half cut if you can afford new one. Most half cut are already near it lifespan. It might crack any time and you are back to square one. My advise is to change to new one and it will last you for another 4 years.

Sorry.. Did not see your picture. You are lucky.. The leaking part is the rubber hose.. CHANGE IT QUICK. cheap cheap.

 

[jarance]

Note:

JB, change both rubber hoses.

 

[azeL_Inc]

searched thru the forum, and found this thread. Got same exact problem, whitish sludge at the cap of coolant tank. Prob occurs after car was left 2-3 months in the workshop. Hope it s only caused by expired coolant, will flush the coolant and replace, see whether no more whitish sludge after this x_x

this is the DIY to flush the coolant
http://www.impee.co.uk/radiator_flush.htm