Help! e36 318i AFM problem
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pharoah
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alright bros,
the mechanic came and installed a new fuel pump since he said the old one was screwed. ok, so the car can be started now; tried driving the car around the car park a little bit and it seemed normal enough, didn't have time to really take it out on the roads yet. fuel pump was RM 550, labour was RM100. Not sure if this is reasonable or not. he did tell me that the rev meter keeps dropping, which is what i kinda noticed as well.
then more news. i've got a whole list of problems i need to take care of. so he wrote it all down, in the order of what's first crucial.
1. Alternator
2. Alternator Bearing
3. fan Belt Bearing
4. Idleing Valve
5. Air Mass (I suppose this is the AFM)
6. Fuel Filters
geez, let the pain begin. but i'd again like to ask everyone for their kind advice on what i can do, where the best places to get parts and such. i still like my car, i guess i have to nurse it back to prime condition.
the mechanic came and installed a new fuel pump since he said the old one was screwed. ok, so the car can be started now; tried driving the car around the car park a little bit and it seemed normal enough, didn't have time to really take it out on the roads yet. fuel pump was RM 550, labour was RM100. Not sure if this is reasonable or not. he did tell me that the rev meter keeps dropping, which is what i kinda noticed as well.
then more news. i've got a whole list of problems i need to take care of. so he wrote it all down, in the order of what's first crucial.
1. Alternator
2. Alternator Bearing
3. fan Belt Bearing
4. Idleing Valve
5. Air Mass (I suppose this is the AFM)
6. Fuel Filters
geez, let the pain begin. but i'd again like to ask everyone for their kind advice on what i can do, where the best places to get parts and such. i still like my car, i guess i have to nurse it back to prime condition.
pharoah;476974 said:
AFM and fuel are not related.
Crankshaft sensor and "fuel pump and spark plug" are related.
if crankshaft sensor fail, it would disable the fuel pump and ignition. That why sometime, people diagnose the fuel pump as the culprit when the crankshaft sensor fail.
But to have AFM and fuel pump fail at the same time is 1 in 100,000.
I think your mechanic is not too sui sui on bmws. I had an AFM problem recently. The idle was rough, the fuel economy was bad, the engine vibrated badly at low rpms (related to the rough idle), but the car DID NOT stall suddenly etc. I was driving around for one week with the afm disconnected while the mech looked for another one !! This guy, I believe, is trying to rip you off, because the problem you had is clearly an idling issue....or either that, he wants to cluster f**k repair your car such that the problem gets fixed anyhow.
The symptoms you described relate obviously to the idle control valve, which is most cases (not all, mine had to be replaced when i had those symptoms, my car even stalled while in motion at high speed) can be cleaned out with WD40. Doesn't cost more than rm100 to replace with a good second hand one if need be (make sure it is serviced before being fixed in).
If you car has been running great all this while, then it is unlikely that many things have gone wrong suddenly. So, I would greatly doubt the list that he has put out there.
However, the comments he made about bearings and bushings may be valid...these are long-term wear and tear items and while not totally gone yet, may be clearly seen to be due for a replacement soon. Take a look at them yourself and use your jedi sense about it.
Or better yet, get a second opinion from another mechanic with the bmw diagnostic computers. If not, just instruct this mechanic to clean out the idle control valve, change the alternator and fan belt bearings and replace the fuel filter...the last three only if you have not done it in recent memory. They need to be done anyway. The alternator can be tested to see if its working....do this at a different wireman's shop AFTER your idle control valve has been cleaned out and your engine is running normally. The bearings and filters can be changed later.
I'm not sure this guy knows his stuff. And rm100 to change a fuel pump is very high...it should be 50% of that.
The symptoms you described relate obviously to the idle control valve, which is most cases (not all, mine had to be replaced when i had those symptoms, my car even stalled while in motion at high speed) can be cleaned out with WD40. Doesn't cost more than rm100 to replace with a good second hand one if need be (make sure it is serviced before being fixed in).
If you car has been running great all this while, then it is unlikely that many things have gone wrong suddenly. So, I would greatly doubt the list that he has put out there.
However, the comments he made about bearings and bushings may be valid...these are long-term wear and tear items and while not totally gone yet, may be clearly seen to be due for a replacement soon. Take a look at them yourself and use your jedi sense about it.
Or better yet, get a second opinion from another mechanic with the bmw diagnostic computers. If not, just instruct this mechanic to clean out the idle control valve, change the alternator and fan belt bearings and replace the fuel filter...the last three only if you have not done it in recent memory. They need to be done anyway. The alternator can be tested to see if its working....do this at a different wireman's shop AFTER your idle control valve has been cleaned out and your engine is running normally. The bearings and filters can be changed later.
I'm not sure this guy knows his stuff. And rm100 to change a fuel pump is very high...it should be 50% of that.
Roberto;477078 said:
I do have to agree with your comment about the AFM being disconnect and the car can still run.. :top:
However, there are some people who says that the car cannot start with the AFM.
No sure whether this is true or not.
pharoah
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Roberto;477078 said:
actually, one of the guys did bring a long one of those diagnostic computers and a whole list of problems seem to come out after the diagnostics. he actually cable tested the fuel pump before telling me it's a confirmed case of broken fuel pump. he told me to buy one of those crankshaft sensor (same as idle control valve?). asked a supplier this afternoon how much would it cost and he mentioned 300 rm.
i didn't even know that the idle valve (and the AFM) can be cleaned out, most mechanics just tell me to buy a new one. sigh, which mechanic can you trust these days.
what's a good wireman's shop you'd recommend?
Well dude where are you located ? I'll see if I can help you.
The many error codes that show up on the GTR system should be reset to zero and then tested 1 week later to see if they have reappeared. This is for stuff which is not obviously wrong.
And keep the old fuel pump...if you gave it to the mechanic call him and tell him that you're coming by to pick it up. Have another mechanic test it later. What do you mean by cable testing the fuel pump? Did he remove it and connect it to a battery to see if it started whirring away? That's the standard way to test it.
Even if the fuel pump is gone, keep the old fuel float from your old pump. The fuel float for these models tend to fail slowly, resulting in a wobbly and inaccurate fuel needle on your instrument cluster. You can just replace the float alone if that happens.
Don't buy your crankshaft sensor yet. This is one of those things that either works or does not work. There's no in between i.e. there are no degrees of failure. If it does not work, the engine just will not start. That's all there is to it. Your engine starts so its basically fine. That being said, it is a good idea to replace this sensor once every 10 years even if yours is working fine, and to reinforce its wire with insulating tape in the meanwhile. This is because your car totally stops when it fails,.....damn bloody inconvenient pain in the butt when that happens....and this sensor will eventually fail.
Crankshaft sensors are totally different from idle control valves. This sensor is well explained in the diagram posted earlier. The idle control valve controls your engine's idle (duh ) by preventing it from falling below the minimum settings. If the idle falls below these settings, (usually) the engine will stall.
p.s. Just checked with my mech. RM30 for the labour to replace a fuel pump. Maybe he charged you more for coming down to your place etc, but even then, RM100 is too much. I think he feels that you're an easy target.
The many error codes that show up on the GTR system should be reset to zero and then tested 1 week later to see if they have reappeared. This is for stuff which is not obviously wrong.
And keep the old fuel pump...if you gave it to the mechanic call him and tell him that you're coming by to pick it up. Have another mechanic test it later. What do you mean by cable testing the fuel pump? Did he remove it and connect it to a battery to see if it started whirring away? That's the standard way to test it.
Even if the fuel pump is gone, keep the old fuel float from your old pump. The fuel float for these models tend to fail slowly, resulting in a wobbly and inaccurate fuel needle on your instrument cluster. You can just replace the float alone if that happens.
Don't buy your crankshaft sensor yet. This is one of those things that either works or does not work. There's no in between i.e. there are no degrees of failure. If it does not work, the engine just will not start. That's all there is to it. Your engine starts so its basically fine. That being said, it is a good idea to replace this sensor once every 10 years even if yours is working fine, and to reinforce its wire with insulating tape in the meanwhile. This is because your car totally stops when it fails,.....damn bloody inconvenient pain in the butt when that happens....and this sensor will eventually fail.
Crankshaft sensors are totally different from idle control valves. This sensor is well explained in the diagram posted earlier. The idle control valve controls your engine's idle (duh
) by preventing it from falling below the minimum settings. If the idle falls below these settings, (usually) the engine will stall.p.s. Just checked with my mech. RM30 for the labour to replace a fuel pump. Maybe he charged you more for coming down to your place etc, but even then, RM100 is too much. I think he feels that you're an easy target.
ICV see item 9 below pic.
BMW parts catalog
Crankshaft sensor. see item 21 & 20 - there are 2 sensors for m43 engine.
BMW parts catalog
BMW parts catalog
Crankshaft sensor. see item 21 & 20 - there are 2 sensors for m43 engine.
BMW parts catalog
pharoah
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Roberto;477218 said:Well dude where are you located ? I'll see if I can help you.
The many error codes that show up on the GTR system should be reset to zero and then tested 1 week later to see if they have reappeared. This is for stuff which is not obviously wrong.
And keep the old fuel pump...if you gave it to the mechanic call him and tell him that you're coming by to pick it up. Have another mechanic test it later. What do you mean by cable testing the fuel pump? Did he remove it and connect it to a battery to see if it started whirring away? That's the standard way to test it.
Even if the fuel pump is gone, keep the old fuel float from your old pump. The fuel float for these models tend to fail slowly, resulting in a wobbly and inaccurate fuel needle on your instrument cluster. You can just replace the float alone if that happens.
Don't buy your crankshaft sensor yet. This is one of those things that either works or does not work. There's no in between i.e. there are no degrees of failure. If it does not work, the engine just will not start. That's all there is to it. Your engine starts so its basically fine. That being said, it is a good idea to replace this sensor once every 10 years even if yours is working fine, and to reinforce its wire with insulating tape in the meanwhile. This is because your car totally stops when it fails,.....damn bloody inconvenient pain in the butt when that happens....and this sensor will eventually fail.
Crankshaft sensors are totally different from idle control valves. This sensor is well explained in the diagram posted earlier. The idle control valve controls your engine's idle (duh
p.s. Just checked with my mech. RM30 for the labour to replace a fuel pump. Maybe he charged you more for coming down to your place etc, but even then, RM100 is too much. I think he feels that you're an easy target.
hey roberto,
i've kept the old fuel pump, at least i hope the fuel float is still around. i'll have a close look tomorrow morning. when the mechs were finding out the problem, they took out the backseat and did some current testing on god knows what. and they were trying to start the car at the same time. not sure if that's also a standard way.
i think the idle control valve might also be problematic because before the repair, the car kept stalling even in motion, i could see the rev meter falling repeatedly. the car dies when that happens.
i live in sri Hartamas. it'd be great if you're able to check out my car. hear from you soon.
Sorry mate, Sri Hartamas is way out of my neck of the woods. Yes, the car stalling while in motion is definitely the idle control valve (icv). Until you get it fixed (do so right away) make sure you keep an eye on the tachometer whenever you are braking or slowing down...keep the rpms at 1k at least.
I suggest you goto an area where there are several mech shops. Your car is old enough for most people to handle so no need for some ultraman types to work on it. Walk to each of them and ask them to quote you on the cost to *service* the afm and icv and the time it will take them to do it. After you've got three quotes, you'll have a feel of what the fair market price should be, and having spoken to three mechs (they will frequently talk more to you about your car problems), you'll be able to have a gut feel of who you should give your car to. If you don't get a gut feel, and there are no obvious red flags with the mechs you speak to, just give it to anyone. Anyway, these two problem do not require finesse to fix.
Importantly, don't let them suggest what else you should be doing to fix your car. Don't reject what they say to their faces, but insist that you only have time to fix these two things today. Then after that, and if the job was well done, ask this new mech for his opinion on your car's bushings and bearings...get him to winch it up and have a close look, and get him to point out each fault to you....generally speaking if a bushing is worn it should be clear upon guided inspection even to an untrained person. Ask him to quote for the repair for everything, and to advise the total time required. You'll thus have a baseline with which you can check against other mech shops. If his quote is about there or not more than 15% pricier, then give it to him to do when you have the time if he has done a good job on your icv. The extra 15% is worth paying to form a relationship with a reliable guy. You can even ask him for a discount based on what other shops are offering...he'll probably give it to you.
Also give him the old fuel pump and ask him to test if its good or not. If it is not good, get him to take out the fuel float and give it to you..the pump portion can be thrown away. If it is good, bring it to your old mechanic and raise hell...get that guy to give you a refund on the replacement fuel pump. If he gave you a new pump, leave it but ask him to refund the labour charge. If it was a used pump that he replaced yours with (sounds like it from the cost), then ask him him to take your old but now proven to be working fuel pump back for a FULL refund on the parts at least. Be real PISSED OFF in front of him if he gives you a hard time over this. Remember, if your old pump works, and he gives you a hard time when you get back to him, he is a proven con artist and nut job, so show your irritation, that's the only way to deal with hustlers quickly.
Dude, the icv problem is a 30 minute fix. AFM requires only 15 mins for your car. Less than 1 hour in total. Both should cost you less than rm40. You should get both done immediately. Don't delay, this is a small problem which has huge consequences if not attended to. Tell us how it goes after you're done.
I suggest you goto an area where there are several mech shops. Your car is old enough for most people to handle so no need for some ultraman types to work on it. Walk to each of them and ask them to quote you on the cost to *service* the afm and icv and the time it will take them to do it. After you've got three quotes, you'll have a feel of what the fair market price should be, and having spoken to three mechs (they will frequently talk more to you about your car problems), you'll be able to have a gut feel of who you should give your car to. If you don't get a gut feel, and there are no obvious red flags with the mechs you speak to, just give it to anyone. Anyway, these two problem do not require finesse to fix.
Importantly, don't let them suggest what else you should be doing to fix your car. Don't reject what they say to their faces, but insist that you only have time to fix these two things today. Then after that, and if the job was well done, ask this new mech for his opinion on your car's bushings and bearings...get him to winch it up and have a close look, and get him to point out each fault to you....generally speaking if a bushing is worn it should be clear upon guided inspection even to an untrained person. Ask him to quote for the repair for everything, and to advise the total time required. You'll thus have a baseline with which you can check against other mech shops. If his quote is about there or not more than 15% pricier, then give it to him to do when you have the time if he has done a good job on your icv. The extra 15% is worth paying to form a relationship with a reliable guy. You can even ask him for a discount based on what other shops are offering...he'll probably give it to you.
Also give him the old fuel pump and ask him to test if its good or not. If it is not good, get him to take out the fuel float and give it to you..the pump portion can be thrown away. If it is good, bring it to your old mechanic and raise hell...get that guy to give you a refund on the replacement fuel pump. If he gave you a new pump, leave it but ask him to refund the labour charge. If it was a used pump that he replaced yours with (sounds like it from the cost), then ask him him to take your old but now proven to be working fuel pump back for a FULL refund on the parts at least. Be real PISSED OFF in front of him if he gives you a hard time over this. Remember, if your old pump works, and he gives you a hard time when you get back to him, he is a proven con artist and nut job, so show your irritation, that's the only way to deal with hustlers quickly.
Dude, the icv problem is a 30 minute fix. AFM requires only 15 mins for your car. Less than 1 hour in total. Both should cost you less than rm40. You should get both done immediately. Don't delay, this is a small problem which has huge consequences if not attended to. Tell us how it goes after you're done.
If your fuel pump is actually ok, then it was probably the fuel pump fuse that was busted. The mech replaced your fuel pump with an extra one that he had lying around and charged you 220, and then changed the fuse while you were not looking or not noticing what was going on. That's why the car started after that. Please let us know the outcome of a direct test of your pump by a different mechanic.
