F1 US GP

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I had a good laugh after the formation lap and went back to bed! I think the proposals made by Michelin were pretty reasonable while FIA were just plain uncompromising even though driver's safety was at stake, FIA failed to see the BIGGER PICTURE. I also think Ferrari's victory is a hollow one and judging from the rubbish being hurled at their cars, I guess I'm not alone. The Michelin teams did the right thing to protect lives while FIA (and Ferrari in deference of other teams) didn't bother to give two hoots! Paul Stoddart took the right stance in the interest of his team but was brave enough to support Michelin's plight cos the issue was material enough in the interest of the sport.
 
Originally posted by ALBundy@Jun 20 2005, 01:56 AM
Well, this is F1 politics at its worst...anyway for the conspiracy theorists..read this..oh especially on Charlie Whiting's decision on the race which was won by Fisi.

http://www.planetf1.com/features/race_feat...ory_19992.shtml
LOL.. as funny as it reads, its reality. As mentioned, when the tables are turned and its Ferrari that will suffer due to tyres, the FIA will change to suit them like they did in 2003..

FIA is a joke man.
 
Looks like out of this fiasco, nobody did the right thing, nobody did the wrong thing either. Certainly no one left the grid untainted. It's a sad day for motorsports.
 
Why is it there is always this conspiracy theory abt Ferrari and FIA, helloo I dont think this is wrestlinglah.
Michelin bring lousy tire then Ferrari have to compromise with them ah? Then if Ferrari that day bring wrong engine thats not suited for Indy how? or for the matter of fact wrong tyres.Ferrari & Bridgestone is to blame right. Just in this case Michelin bring lousy tires that are not suited for Indianapolis but Ferrari got the right tyres why do they they have to compromise ?? If the Michelin shod cars are not good enough then they have to drive slowerlah why has Ferrari got to go slow as well?? They all should have just gone and get the job done not just becos they are the majority then they can act in this manner well I suppose they thought they could get away with it. If that day Ferrari bring wrong tyre or wrong gear ratios can they say "eh today you all have to give me 5lap advantage ah bcos aisehman bridgestone bring wrong tyrelah or my stupid mechanic bring wrong gear ratioslah.? Im not siding Ferrari but its a fact.


Interview with Jean Todt on his views abt USGP fiasco:

"After Sunday’s controversial United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis, Jean Todt clarified Ferrari’s position in the run-up to the situation which led to 14 Michelin runners peeling off into the pits at the end of the parade lap, taking no further part in the race.

But first Todt admitted that “I feel sorry about what happened, but I mainly feel sorry for all the supporters who were here, for the American supporters, for the TV viewers but it was not our decision.”

The reason why the Michelin runners took no part in the race was because they had unsuitable tyres on which they were recommended not to race. Compromises were sought from various sources to let the Michelin runners race, even for no points, but no solution was found.

At one point, a chicane was suggested in the quick banked corner at the end of the lap, where one of the Michelin tyre failures took place during practice. Todt explained that he was not consulted on this.

“We were never involved with those discussions,” said Todt. “Never involved. We were never asked about that. Whether we would have agreed or not is another question, and I tell you right now, to be sincere, we would not have agreed, but we were never asked about that. But is it serious to decide to put in a chicane half an hour without nobody testing it? It’s ridiculous.”



Todt did say that Bernie Ecclestone had talked to him about “different proposals, including a chicane, but again, it’s a matter of the FIA, it’s not a matter of the commercial rights holder (Ecclestone’s position). And I said that for me it was up to the FIA to decide.”

Continuing to explain his position, Todt pointed out that “number one, it’s an FIA decision. Number two, if something happened on the other side; if, for example, we don’t have enough grip for qualifying and we ask for three laps because we have good grip after the third lap, or if we ask for a chicane because we feel it would be safer for our tyres, I think everybody would laugh at us. So you just have to be prepared to react to a situation.

“You have two sets of tyres which you chose from, one normally is soft, the other one is hard and then you make your choice. I feel sorry for those who could not compete, but I feel more sorry, again, for the supporters.”

Todt then explained the disadvantages of the sudden installation of a chicane. “If we knew beforehand that there would be a chicane, we would have come prepared for a chicane. We would come with different tyres, we would have a different set-up on the car, we would have different gear ratios.

“Honestly, why should we compromise? We try to do a good job with Bridgestone, and we did not do a very good job with Bridgestone since the beginning of the year. We arrive, we are in a situation where we see from Friday that we are competitive, we don’t have any problem with tyres so for us it’s an opportunity.”

There was even a suggestion that the Michelin teams would compete for no points if a chicane was installed. But Todt’s reply was “would we have competed for no points? I say no. If this race would have been a race without points which cannot be, it would have been out of the FIA standard, we would not have started.”

Asked what sort of harm the boycott had done the image of Formula One, Todt replied “very bad. I wish we could come back to the States because it’s a very important country, it’s now our number one market, the States, and for so many years Bernie has tried to implement something in the States. Unfortunately, it was not the best demonstration today. It has been a hard hit for Formula One today.”

Todt explained that the teams had been warned about pushing the tyre situation to the limit. “We all got a letter two weeks ago warning us after the Monte Carlo race and after Nurburgring when Raikkonen had his problem, that we had to pay special attention to the tyres, the pressures, about all that, and it’s something we thought could happen for a while.”

Asked under what circumstances he would you have been willing to race with the Michelin runners, Todt said “I would say three options. One, they could have changed their tyres. Two, they would have to compromise in this specific corner. And three, they could have used the pit lane. If these cars cannot take this corner, what can I do? You would have had a race.”
 
Somehow, I know e46fanatic will condemn Ferrari & FIA on this issue. Not surprising.

Read this if u dun't know FIA explanation & rules especially to bring at least 2 types of tyres.
http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33201

on To add a chicane.
“It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes.

“Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable."
Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis.

Oh yeah.. and if FIA favors ferrari, why change all the rules in an effort to stop ferrari & MS from winning?

I agree to some of views about allowing tyre change back. The race is getting even duller without the ability of tyre changes to allow cars with lighter fuel load but more stops. Some more get more overtaking bcos of diff fuel strategy.

ITS MICHELIN FAULT & THEY ACT CHILDISH ON IT.
 
no wrong no right...
but I'd like to see that tyre changes are allowed again during the race.....
 
Its a sad day indeed for F1. Well, primarily is Michelin's fault, but the buck doesn't stop there. IF only everyone involved can only see the Big Picture and work out a compromise, I am sure this wouldnt have happen. And to me Paul Stoddart is the biggest hypocrite of all. At first he claimed Minardi is racing because their only competitor is racing (Jordan). Yeah right, the Jordan is faster than them and now he claims the points won(7) means nothing...yeah right...its worth millions of dollars and possibly the only chance for Minardi to do so.
 
Wah my rep for being anti-FIA is out there already heh. Well, its just based on what I read and gather after all these years of following F1. I don't believe I am the only disillusioned one as there are many articles written about the un-objectivity of the FIA esp in F1.

I wonder what the rest of the teams on the paddock feel now about Ferrari and the FIA. Even if there is unhappyness, nothing they can do, until they form their breakaway series after 2007. Only Ferrari has committed to stay in F1 after 2007. BMW, Honda, Merc Benz, Cosworth etc have all committed in forming a breakaway series from F1 after the current agreement expires. Ever wonder why only Ferrari has agreed to stay on with the FIA while the rest are pushing for a breakaway series? Also last weekend, why ALL teams agreed on Michellin's proposal but only the FIA and Ferrari rejected it? Seeing some pattern here?

FIA has also made threats that they are looking for a single tyre supplier in F1 and Michellin's chances doesnt look good after what happened last weekend. When Bridgestone was failing in the early races this season, the did not send a warning letter to them to buck up on safety. When Kimi's tyre failed 2 weekends ago, they jumped on it and sent Michellin a warning. FIA is boss man in F1... No independent council that teams can formally and fairly get a hearing and objective verdict. When BAR Honda was implicated for "cheating" despite a very strong case (read the transcript in courtroom), the ultimate decision was NOT made by any jury or anything, but by an individual linked to the FIA. When they wanted to appeal to higher courts and fight the decision, FIA threathen that they will implement random spot checks which will call for complete car strip downs which will make life hell for the "team". Yea baby.. show them who's boss...

Anyway, I'll just go my merry way and continue being cynical towards the FIA... If you follow F1 closely you'll see a pattern that other manufacturers and teams (besides Ferrari) are behaving towards the FIA. At the moment too much money involved and too much commitment from team and manufacturers to be the black sheep. So everyone's just playing along till the collectively break away and form their own series.
 
Chill bro. The Ferrari bandwagon is strong. The FIA big hand is also in WTCC. For just one round (at Silverstone), they decided to lighten the FWD cars by 30kg. In the next race, they reverted back to the old weight limits. Why? BMW has donimated the 1st few rounds and they wanted the gap in the contructors' championship to be closer.

Who owns Alfa and guess who got the most points over the weekend? Highest finish for a BMW was 5th in race 1, 6th in race 2. Alfa finished top 4 in race 1 but at least the SEAT's finished top 2 in race 2 to deny the Alfa's a clean sweep!
 
Originally posted by E46Fanatic@Jun 21 2005, 03:57 AM
Wah my rep for being anti-FIA is out there already heh. Well, its just based on what I read and gather after all these years of following F1. I don't believe I am the only disillusioned one as there are many articles written about the un-objectivity of the FIA esp in F1.

I wonder what the rest of the teams on the paddock feel now about Ferrari and the FIA. Even if there is unhappyness, nothing they can do, until they form their breakaway series after 2007. Only Ferrari has committed to stay in F1 after 2007. BMW, Honda, Merc Benz, Cosworth etc have all committed in forming a breakaway series from F1 after the current agreement expires. Ever wonder why only Ferrari has agreed to stay on with the FIA while the rest are pushing for a breakaway series? Also last weekend, why ALL teams agreed on Michellin's proposal but only the FIA and Ferrari rejected it? Seeing some pattern here?

FIA has also made threats that they are looking for a single tyre supplier in F1 and Michellin's chances doesnt look good after what happened last weekend. When Bridgestone was failing in the early races this season, the did not send a warning letter to them to buck up on safety. When Kimi's tyre failed 2 weekends ago, they jumped on it and sent Michellin a warning. FIA is boss man in F1... No independent council that teams can formally and fairly get a hearing and objective verdict. When BAR Honda was implicated for "cheating" despite a very strong case (read the transcript in courtroom), the ultimate decision was NOT made by any jury or anything, but by an individual linked to the FIA. When they wanted to appeal to higher courts and fight the decision, FIA threathen that they will implement random spot checks which will call for complete car strip downs which will make life hell for the "team". Yea baby.. show them who's boss...

Anyway, I'll just go my merry way and continue being cynical towards the FIA... If you follow F1 closely you'll see a pattern that other manufacturers and teams (besides Ferrari) are behaving towards the FIA. At the moment too much money involved and too much commitment from team and manufacturers to be the black sheep. So everyone's just playing along till the collectively break away and form their own series.
You're not the only one who's seen the light lah. To me, it's blatantly obvious but die hard Ferrari fans will always deny this. Well, let's see if the breakaway series materialise. If so, the Ferraris can race among themselves and set whatever rules that favor them at their whim and fancy but no one will bother to watch or talk about it... :D
 
micehllin suxx with the bad quality race tyres. britstone rules as their tyres proven. even with 40+ laps to go ms's race engineer radioed him mentioning the tires r good to go for 100 more laps... if i were the manager for the team that use mihcellin tyres, ill sue them for not being able to race, lost in revenue due to lack of advert during race coverage etc..etc...

i guess if they really want to entertain the crowd, they can always use britstone tyres on their cars.. mihcellin kenot gerrenti the driver safety if they go racing... chicane idea ?? just a desperate sohlution for mihcellin to coverup their own shit...

i guess more team wud revert back to britstone nx year :D
 
Before the USGP, everyone is singing the praises of Michelle's lin. How many races did Jambatan Batu win before USGP? Zilch. But it is obvious Michelle's lin doesn't work on ovals and no other current F1 circuits has anyting like the oval.
 
quoted from F1-live.com, Michelin race director Pierre Dupasquier: ""The tyres were not adapted to the special characteristics of the Indianapolis track," he said. He said the difference with last year was that the new rules forced teams to use tyres longer. "It was not a flaw (in the tyre) but a specific we had not calculated," he said."

so if you dun know how to do your maths everybody has to follow and be as dumb is it?? what crap!
All the while i thought there was a production problem on this batch of tires but no its because they do not know their maths and for this I stayed awake at god forsaken hour to watch 6 cars race but in truth 6 cars were better than no cars.
 
whether people like it or not, F1 is nothing without ferrari.. I think more than half of all F1 audience are Ferrari fans.. So, I don't agree with some things in F1, but I don't think GPWC is a viable option without ferrari.. it will turn into just another nondescript tour like the le mans, WRC or WTCC.. good, but no commercial appeal and global audience.. these guys need to work together to come up with better F1..
 
Let boikot michelin tyre due to their incompetence to provide safe tyre to our driver
 
This is just my 2 cents.

IMO i dun think the fans that paid to be in Indy were short changed, if they were to look at it the other way they paid to be a part of History, they can still see 20 cars next year but I dun think so they can ever watch 6 cars start a race again. :D

Seriously do u actually go to the race track to watch a race, for me I go for the atmosphere, for the sights and sound, being among other people with the same passion not to watch a race bcos half the time i wont know wtf's happening. Want to seriously watch a race watch TV.
 
Originally posted by E46Fanatic@Jun 21 2005, 06:05 AM
More and more articles about the FIA are surfacing....

Bravo FIA!
That's an interesting though summarised perspective. It seems serious enough for 7 competiting teams to effectively carry out a common action and that to me shows there were other underlying considerations. I mean, Toyota was willing to lose its pole position, Honda was willing to dispense another GP without points and both McLaren and Renault were willing to let Ferrari creep up on them by their collective decision! The F1 community may seem divided but to me, there's an obvious majority and strong unity within that majority. So, the problem could very well be with the minority or the manipulative Ferrari.
 
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