tongsatriani
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If no ATF change done before, don't do it!
If done before, change it as per recommended.
If done before, change it as per recommended.
BMW Long Life Transmission Oil for M54 engine
- Thread starter funfer_fahrer
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fabianyee
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tongsatriani
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funfer_fahrer said:Tongsatriani,
Somebody once told me about this. Is there any technical explanation?
It's all theory & real-life experience handed down by a few good service advisors. There are cases gear box failed due to these "life time" liquid after 3 years!
In your case, I would suggest don't do anything as 5 years it had been good. Keep it for a few mores years, who knows you may upgrade to another species?
fabianyee
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Perhaps you should get in touch with the engineering department in ZF for explanation. The modern auto gearbox itself is, to me, more complicated than the engine. Most of us here can only share experiences.funfer_fahrer said:
Well for those who think that a change is good, check out this link for specification of oil to use.
http://www.bmwtips.com/
BTW I did a change at 60K (km) on my 2001 525i and have since clocked another 20K and it does appear that gear change seems a little more noticeable recently as compared to before the change(maybe I have become more sensitive). I'll try to get my hands on 523i that has not gone thru the oil change with slightly higher mileage to compare and update once I have done it.
http://www.bmwtips.com/
BTW I did a change at 60K (km) on my 2001 525i and have since clocked another 20K and it does appear that gear change seems a little more noticeable recently as compared to before the change(maybe I have become more sensitive). I'll try to get my hands on 523i that has not gone thru the oil change with slightly higher mileage to compare and update once I have done it.
vinode
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I am a "part-time" tribologist with a power plant and this "life-time" lubrication ideology is intriguing to say the least. We know the functions of the gear oil, as mentioned by funfer_fahrer, and due to this function it is bound to collect (maybe dirt is not the right word) particles and impurities inside the oil, becoming a sludge. Imagine your clutch plate thinning, where does all that metal go to? This will cause inherent change to the oil properties and by "lifetime" oil, what the Bavarians have done is create oil that can withstand the property change or rather blend it in with the system, meaning the oil gets better with impurities (after all, you can change boiling properties of water with salt, an impurity). Comprende?
But then how much impurity can it take? What will happen to the filter? What will large metal particles do to the moving parts? What is "lifetime" (or whose)? Also, years of working with lawyers and contracts, "lifetime" is subjective. We have fire retardant hydraulic oil used in a steam turbine system which can last 10years. How do we know it's time for a change? OIL ANALYSIS. That's right, no guess work when a 10 million RM equipment is involved. Acid number, Tan number, H2O and Oxides in the oil determine it's useful life. In one instance, the topping up helps... maybe even drain some and top up just to "dilute" it if you will. But all that to save RM100K in oil. BMW ZF ATF is much cheaper. Cheaper even than sending the oil for analysis. I am about to change mine this weekend because I believe the new oil is not detrimental, though the degraded 5 year old oil may be (just the tribologist in me speaking). Who knows, maybe I can extend my gearbox by another "lifetime". But then again every time I open the gearbox oil sump up, who knows what is getting IN to the oil, how good is the new oil, is everything tightened back the way it should be etc?
I'm not writing to say whichever method is better but at least we can feel better doing either. If the ATF is a "lifetime" oil, the Bavarians won't be selling the oil now, would they? vbmenu_register("postmenu_147247", true);
vbmenu_register("postmenu_147247", true);
But then how much impurity can it take? What will happen to the filter? What will large metal particles do to the moving parts? What is "lifetime" (or whose)? Also, years of working with lawyers and contracts, "lifetime" is subjective. We have fire retardant hydraulic oil used in a steam turbine system which can last 10years. How do we know it's time for a change? OIL ANALYSIS. That's right, no guess work when a 10 million RM equipment is involved. Acid number, Tan number, H2O and Oxides in the oil determine it's useful life. In one instance, the topping up helps... maybe even drain some and top up just to "dilute" it if you will. But all that to save RM100K in oil. BMW ZF ATF is much cheaper. Cheaper even than sending the oil for analysis. I am about to change mine this weekend because I believe the new oil is not detrimental, though the degraded 5 year old oil may be (just the tribologist in me speaking). Who knows, maybe I can extend my gearbox by another "lifetime". But then again every time I open the gearbox oil sump up, who knows what is getting IN to the oil, how good is the new oil, is everything tightened back the way it should be etc?
I'm not writing to say whichever method is better but at least we can feel better doing either. If the ATF is a "lifetime" oil, the Bavarians won't be selling the oil now, would they? vbmenu_register("postmenu_147247", true);
vbmenu_register("postmenu_147247", true);
fabianyee
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There was a discussion on the 'lifetime' oil in overseas forum and apparently ZF denied ever endorsed that it can last a lifetime.
No oil can last a lifetime, oil can break down on the long run. Anyway, the word lifetime is indeed misleading. if it's the gearbox's lifetime, how long is lifetime for the gearbox, 5 years, 10 years??? or 200k km? 300k km??
as for the "if you haven't change your oil don't do it, but if you already start changing you must stick to certain schedule" theory. I would say it stemmed from the idea that if you flushed an 'overdue' gearbox, it may dislodge gunk inside the gearbox. and depending on how big are the dislodged gunks, it may get stuck inside the gearbox and not flushed out. And these 'floating' impurities may clogged up passageways causing havoc.
So the theory is that, flushed before the gearbox gets too gunked up inside, or let it stay stuck inside undisturbed.
No oil can last a lifetime, oil can break down on the long run. Anyway, the word lifetime is indeed misleading. if it's the gearbox's lifetime, how long is lifetime for the gearbox, 5 years, 10 years??? or 200k km? 300k km??
as for the "if you haven't change your oil don't do it, but if you already start changing you must stick to certain schedule" theory. I would say it stemmed from the idea that if you flushed an 'overdue' gearbox, it may dislodge gunk inside the gearbox. and depending on how big are the dislodged gunks, it may get stuck inside the gearbox and not flushed out. And these 'floating' impurities may clogged up passageways causing havoc.
So the theory is that, flushed before the gearbox gets too gunked up inside, or let it stay stuck inside undisturbed.
Having noted the various opinions profferred, I'm still unsure whether I should replace my 5 year old ATF. The ATF replacement job in itself is not that costly, but I'm just afraid the consequences of that job are! My car's gearbox works fine (touch wood) and I don't want to upset the status quo.
coolaboutlife
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How much is the reconditioned gearbox? How much is a new gear box from i) AB and ii) outside AB?
From above if we change every 20k mileage at RM700... cost after 200k mileage will be RM7000. Assuming lifetime is 200k.
From above if we change every 20k mileage at RM700... cost after 200k mileage will be RM7000. Assuming lifetime is 200k.
Jerman
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Change or Not to Change?
wglee,
I was in the same dilemma like you especially after reading all the Guru & Sifu debating "to change or not"!. Mine was 4 years old@72,000km. Finally, the rationale mind (or maybe not?) rules end of the day. I changed! Overall I feel it's smoother (psychology? after paying $$$?)
Anyway, at least I can now put it behind me and just enjoy the sheer driving pleasure!
wglee said:
wglee,
I was in the same dilemma like you especially after reading all the Guru & Sifu debating "to change or not"!. Mine was 4 years old@72,000km. Finally, the rationale mind (or maybe not?) rules end of the day. I changed! Overall I feel it's smoother (psychology? after paying $$$?)
Anyway, at least I can now put it behind me and just enjoy the sheer driving pleasure!
