BEHR radiator

[anasramadhan]

Hi guys, Seems that most of our friends who installed behr radiator having problem after a while. Like mine, baru tukar satu minggu sudah problem. water burst out like fountain while opening the radiator cap when the engine cold. The mech siad it could be the termostat valve tak bukak properly. So the water circulation tak running well. Need some advise from the sifus.

 

[Bmmad318i]

Which model are u driving??? Changed mine last year for my E30 M40 also no problem until I sold the car. Sure u're mech install correctly??? Properly vented, etc.

 

[blackrobe]

just changed mine last week after my cylinder head pipe buggered up... after the pressure test, found the radiator to be leaking, changed it to Behr...for RM490.... any truth to the above? (E36)

 

[GasWombat]

behr rad

Some BMW owners have complained abt short life of the BEHR rad. My regular mech pointed out that the rad I bought from Bavarian Auto looks of better quality than the BEHRs (from China) that has been the source of much disappointment.

Dunno if it will last at least 3 years. Also thermostat comes in 88 degree C or 71 degree. The ori BMW, i believe, is 88, so I chose the 71 degree, which means the fan will trigger at a lower temp....better for the rad.



BEHR radiator (Made in S. Africa, 6-month warranty by Bavarian Auto) = RM500
Thermostat 71 degree C = 33
Pipe flange = 95
Profile-gasket = 5
O-ring = 3
Upper water hose (right) = 34
Lower water hose (left) = 40
BMW coolant 1.5 litre = 24

 

[meetoo]

Better check what temperature thermostat you should use for your model engine. If it's 88 degree, then you shouldn't use 71 degree. That's a big difference man! You're looking after your radiator but what about your engine?

 

[chairoger]

What country of origin is this BEHR radiator from? I am replacing mine with an OEM Made in Germany radiator.....I hope its not BEHR, after all the pretty bad reviews from fellow members.

 

[meetoo]

BEHR is a German OEM manufacturer of radiators and thermostats. Very famous and their products are good. Usually it's faulty installation that's the problem. Ensure you get a new thermostat also. Thermostats have a fixed useful lifespan of optimum performance although some forumer don't agree.

Also use coolant, not water, in your radiator because coolant has ethylene glycol which has a higher boiling point and lower freezing point than water. It's also has rust inhibiting chemicals. Saving a few dollars by not changing the cheap things like thermostats and coolant is false economy because it can shorten the life of your radiator, water pump and even your engine.

 

[meetoo]

BTW, most cars engines designed to operate at around 90C. Lower temperature than that means higher engine wear and higher fuel consumption due to increased friction.

 

[GasWombat]

Behr again

Thanks for the alert, meetoo.


I have checked with 5 shops namely M1, Heritage, Optimum, M Speed and my regular mech.


In most cases, while they say the E36 uses the 88 degree thermostat, they have been replacing it with the 71, and they say it's marvy for the radiator and fine for the engine. over the years, they claim they have not receive complaint with a lowered engine temp as a result of using the 71.


I understand the logic behind your statement abt the risk of engine running cooler....perhaps a more free-flowing engine oil/less viscous would also negate the danger of using a 71 thermo.

 

[meetoo]

Hai GasWombat, you're welcome. It your choice of course, but I think you should read this article. http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/fluids_heat_air_conditioning/ques019_2.html
BTW, 160F is 71C and 190F is 88C. There are many more article like this if you do a search.

Our mechanics only know how to judge based on whether any complaint from customer or not. What they tell you is seldom based on knowledge. "Try and see lah" attitude is common. So think whether it's worthwhile to take such risks with your precious engine just to protect a RM500 radiator.

Just also don't understand why some people think it's not necessary to replace an important thing like the thermostat every 3 years when it only cost RM33. If you do search, the recommended lifespan of a thermostat is 50-70,000km. So they just wait until it kong instead and in the meantime all sorts of problem developing in the engine. When the engine finally gives problems, who will suspect a faulty thermostat might have caused it? Our expert "no complaint from customer" mechanics?

 

[seech]

Guys, my 2 sen. I don't think installing a lower temp thermostat in Malaysia will be too much of an issue as a thermostat's function is not to control the temp of the coolant (ie. run cooler etc.). Its main function is to block off the water from the radiator to the engine when the engine is cold to allow the engine to reach operating temp faster. Installing a lower temp thermostat will just slow down this process slightly. Ultimately it will NOT have an effect on operating temperature as both a lower temp or higher temp thermostat will be fully open by the time the engine reaches operating temp. If your engine is running hotter or cooler, it will probably have something to do with another part of your cooling system.

 

[meetoo]

I'm sorry seech, but your statement is completely not based on engineering principle. A thermostat is a process control device to regulate a system at a desired operating temperature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostat

There is no such thing as a thermostat slowing down the process of engine heating up. An engine will heat up at the same rate regardless of the thermostat. When the temp reach the setpoint temp, the thermostat will kick in the cooling system. Then the cooling system will go on-off-on-off maintaining the temp around that setpoint temp. Just leave your car on idle in your porch and listen to your fan start-stop-start-stop. That is the work of the thermostat.

If your thermostat setpoint is 71C, then the operating temp of your engine will be around 71C. If its 88C, then it will be around 88C. As the earlier article stated, modern car are designed to operate at 90C and if constantly operating cool than that, the computer will think the car is in warm-up phase all the time and will set the fuel enrichment, spark advance, etc accordingly. Think of all the long term effects on the engine, catalytic converter and so on, besides simply wasting petrol and increased moving parts wear.

 

[Lee36328]

A page from the Bentley manual on the function of the thermostat...

 

[GasWombat]

Damn!


The fuel con does indeed suffer. I could go 5 days on RM50 on 50km daily commute (expressway travel mostly). Now, it can only last 4 days.


Kamal (sic) of First Division stockist in Segambut (Tel: 03-6251 9816/17/15) is quite a knowlegeable guy and basically confirms what "meetoo" has been saying all along.....the 71 thermostat will shorten your engine life. Period.

so looks like I'll revert to a RM36, 88-degree thermostat. It's the optimal point for engine and radiator.

 

[meetoo]

Glad to help friend. I'm an engineer so I know the importance of transducers that regulate the operation of equipment according to design parameters. Thermostats are very important and you should replace them before they kong or start giving wrong result. Very cheap compared to the consequences on your equipment. And must replace the correct temp specification.

Another thing I can tell you for sure is that ALL sensors have a fixed useful life and do not last forever!

 

[seech]

err meetoo, as Lee36328 pointed out in the Bentley service manual.

- "A thermostat controls the flow of coolant into the radiator. When the engine is cold the thermostat is closed so coolant bypasses the radiator, recirculating from the engine directly back to the pump. When the engine reaches operating temperature, the thermostat opens and coolant circulates through the whole system including the radiator."

An engine will NOT heat up at the same rate regardless of the themostat. The proper thermostat will ensure engine heats up to operating temperature faster by the process described above. It prevents coolant from entering radiator so engine heats up faster. When it reaches operating temp or should I say temp of the themostat, it opens and allows coolant to flow through radiator and keeps engine at operating temp. Hence you are right in saying that we should always replace the thermostat with the correct temp spec.

The fan start-stop is NOT the work of the themostat but the work of the fan switch (temp sensor). When it gets above a certain temp it will kick in the fan to cool the system down to the set point when it turns itself on again.

The point I'm trying to make about themostats in malaysia is that the operating temp of an engine should be higher than 88 deg. (this is just my assumption, if I'm wrong I stand corrected). IF the operating temp is indeed higher than 88 deg. then the thermostat will have NO EFFECT AT ALL on the operating temp of your engine as it would be fully open at 88 deg. However, like I said above, if the engine's operating temp is lower than 88 deg. then I stand corrected and the thermostat will then have an impact on operating temp. I am assuming that with our hot weather the engine will operate at a higher temp than 88 deg. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[selespeed]

err meetoo, as Lee36328 pointed out in the Bentley service manual.

- "A thermostat controls the flow of coolant into the radiator. When the engine is cold the thermostat is closed so coolant bypasses the radiator, recirculating from the engine directly back to the pump. When the engine reaches operating temperature, the thermostat opens and coolant circulates through the whole system including the radiator."

An engine will NOT heat up at the same rate regardless of the themostat. The proper thermostat will ensure engine heats up to operating temperature faster by the process described above. It prevents coolant from entering radiator so engine heats up faster. When it reaches operating temp or should I say temp of the themostat, it opens and allows coolant to flow through radiator and keeps engine at operating temp. Hence you are right in saying that we should always replace the thermostat with the correct temp spec.

The fan start-stop is NOT the work of the themostat but the work of the fan switch (temp sensor). When it gets above a certain temp it will kick in the fan to cool the system down to the set point when it turns itself on again.

The point I'm trying to make about themostats in malaysia is that the operating temp of an engine should be higher than 88 deg. (this is just my assumption, if I'm wrong I stand corrected). IF the operating temp is indeed higher than 88 deg. then the thermostat will have NO EFFECT AT ALL on the operating temp of your engine as it would be fully open at 88 deg. However, like I said above, if the engine's operating temp is lower than 88 deg. then I stand corrected and the thermostat will then have an impact on operating temp. I am assuming that with our hot weather the engine will operate at a higher temp than 88 deg. Can anyone confirm this?

that's why i am also damn confused. because the function of the temperature is to tell the system to start the fan or not. if very hot, the fan may have to spin faster. has nothing to do with themostat. and if the temperature still goes up, that means the radiator is not doing the job to cool the engine. it has nothing to do with fan or themostat anymore.

a themostat is a passive device!

 

[meetoo]

I was being imprecise so that there would not be more confusion. Didn't want to introduce more item into the discussion then. The radiator thermostat and the fan clutch or fan motor switch are of course separate. You can call them differently but technically they are thermostats with the function to start/stop a certain process when the temp reaches a certain point.

If the designed optimum operating temp of the car engine is 90C, then the radiator thermostat would correctly be rated at 88C. It's best to go to realoem and check the correct thermostat temp rating for your particular car. Then there is no guesswork and if you want to install a lower temp rating it up to you. I'm just pointing out the long term effects of running a cold engine.

 

[meetoo]

Seech, now I also realise I shouldn't have use the analogy of the fan starting and stopping at idle, because I was thinking of electric motor-driven fan which is govern by a thermostatic switch. At that time I didn't realise Seles car was a E30. Generally older cars use engine-driven fans govern by a thermostatic clutch in the fan hub. Sorry for causing the confusion that way

 

[seech]

meetoo, in any case you are absolutely right that themostat should be replaced with exactly the same temp reading.

if you're having overheating issues a cooler thermostat would not solve the problem anyway. something else in the cooling system would be causing the problem.