Altis handles better than E90 320i?

[wglee]

I found this interesting post in Autoworld yesterday (see below). What do you all think about the statement below which seems to suggest that the Toyota Corolla Altis handles better than the 320i (I think the 320i referred to is the E90 320i)? "hi guys, i m driving toyota altis.. Plan to get bmw.. i hav test drive 320, seems is small, underpower, handling not that good compare to toyota.. And plan to test drive 325 as well, said is more nicer & bigger,, is it true ? btw i m looking at 520 / 525 as well.. plan to get a brand new from bavaria or get the recond ? any advice? thx." (emphasis mine).

 

[KL2DC]

I think its a load of BS.

My good friend has a Corolla LE with all the goodies (same car as Altis, same engine with VVTi etc) and I've driven the car a few times and I can personally vouch that the e90 is worlds apart in peformance and handling (as it should be).

The corolla's seating position is high and unnatural, the steering is clinical and the car is more floaty and more prone to roll, not to mention heavy understeer at the limit. The corolla is one of those car's that's dying for a drop (it sits too high) and uprated suspension. Don't get me wrong, its a decent car with decent and safe grip but better than a BMW? I don't know what kind of sh*t that guy was smoking...but its pretty strong.

The e90 is at least comparable or better in interior space. Overall space feels better because the car is wider. I find the car's space on par with the W203. You want tight quarters, you should check out the new Lexus IS!!! The back seat in that car is almost useless....

I can't say with certainly about which car has better pull, as I drive a 3.0 N52-engined 325i and have never driven a 4cyl 320i. Number wise the 320i puts out 150hp and the corolla's 1zz-fe 1.8 litre puts out 130hp so there's a 20 hp advantage on the BMW. I know the curb weight gives the e90 a less favorable power-to-weight ratio BUT as we all know, bavarian horses always feel stronger and in the proper mode, the Steptronic has good gearing. So at the very least, the 320i and the Corolla should take off at the same clip. There might be an advantage to the e90 at the upper range, I am not sure...

Also, how can a 325 be bigger than a 320i...its the same darn car body.

To sum it up this guy is an idiot and seems to have prejudices for the e90 and for BMW in general. If nothing beats his altis, he should just stick with it...Fellow UDM owners, feel free to chime in, this guy was probably trolling. Also feel free to direct him to my response...sheesh what a joke!

My $0.02!!

 

[KL2DC]

On the subject of handling...

I went for a road rally this past Saturday with a motley crew of members from e90post.com and from EastCoastEuro.net. The course comprises of twisty Virginia country roads with varying crests and radii corners, some blind corners as well. Its like some of the roads our Zoggee likes to attack with his e30.

Cars in attendance was an e39 M5, e46 330i ZHP, e90 330i ZSP, e90 325i (yours truly), W203 C32 AMG, Mk IV Golf Gti VR6 and a track ready e36 325i.

It was a balls out run uphill and downhill...we kept in tight formation all the way. For the uphill run, I was last of the pack, behind the e39 M5 (suspension work, brake ducts) and my stock e90 325i automatic with 16" wheels and all-season RFT tires kept on his tail all the way to our first rest stop. On the downhill, I was positioned third behind the lead car, the e46 330i ZHP and the W203 C32 AMG, and I was stuck on the rear bumper of the C32 pretty much all the way downhill...it was a great run and the car stuck straight and true through the corners with perhaps a touch of understeer at the limit. But there was never a time when the car felt unsafe or worrying. It was confidence inspiring until the end and competitive with the other hard runners of the pack. The suspension soaked up mid-corner bumps very well and again, remain stable on this bumpy and dirty track. A funny thing happened to the track E36 325i, because of the agressive suspension tuning, the car lost its CF front splitter halfway through the uphill....

The manual mode of the steptronic came in handy as I was the only other auto car aside from the C32 and really had to work the gearing to get the most from my modest 215hp.

Just wanted to share this account to shed further light on this Corolla is superior over an e90 argument....I would like to see that guys 'Altis' keep up in this crowd, remember HP doesn't play a big role in a tight mountain course, esp downhill, its outright handling and grip. Actually, the one car that struggled was the fwd Golf Gti VR6, despite it being modded over with a lowered suspension.

 

[bmwky]

I agree that guy must be high on sumthin. I have driven all the generation of Toyotas DX,GL,LE,SE and SEGs and the Altis. No doubt they are fine cars but to compare them with BMW is inane. Unless they make MAJOR improvement in suspension and powerplant, they are still as exiting as driving my refrigerator. I have yet to find something more pleasurable to drive than my E30 of that era.

 

[Jipster]

Hmmmm..... my 2 cents on this..... I also drive an altis on a regular basis, a 1.6. I've done about 12k kms on it since - On the shortcomings noted, my comments are as follows:

seating position is high and unnatural - very true but you soon get used to it, it gives a good view out;

steering is clinical - again you get used to it. Its just overly asisted thats all but ok. I run my tires at lower pressures (28PSI) to introduce it bit more 'weight'. At this pressure it gives better feedback and gives a more positive sterring feel in fast sweepers;

car is floaty and prone to roll - yes they are! Mainly noticeable on the highway. Lowering the tire pressure as mentioned above made it less floaty at speed but roll is unavoidable... my recent drive to Camerons via the new highway was torture because of this (not to mention lack of power see last point);

heavy understeer at the limit - well what do you expect?.... mass produced car.... have to remind yourself not to go in too hot.... lifting off mid corner (at reasonable speeds) you do feel the car tucking in which is nice;

The corolla is one of those car's that's dying for a drop (it sits too high) and uprated suspension - YES.... I believe it will respond very well to better shocks/springs, anti-rolls (havent had a look underneath the car but I dont think there are any or they may be too small), better tires (the NCT5s are ok for the drive to tesco....)

Bigger let downs to me - 1.8 would be better for the car it lacks low down torque (like my m20b20).

My guess is if you give a 1.8 altis to a competent driver, he'd give the E90 320i a run for its money.

 

[KL2DC]

Jipster: great and fair comments....!!! I also agree, if you give me the keys to that Altis 1.8, I'd also give that 320i a run for its money, but the original poster is comparing the 2 on his own experience.

 

[Iqlima]

Front wheel drive and Rear wheel drive , both totally handle different way. He may be right says Altis handle better .....

 

[flash]

Something similiar... my cousin who has an Altis 1.8 prefers my E34 520i... he likes the comfort and handling but finds the performance a bit lacking.... I am sure the E90's comfort, handling and performance is miles ahead of my SLOTH.

 

[wglee]

I responded to the pertinent post as follows:-

"This is the first time I've heard that the Altis handles better than the
E90 320i! I have driven both cars, and I beg to differ.

Anyway, why not join www.bmwclubmalaysia.com. You will certainly get a
variety of views and indeed helpful advice regarding anything BMW."

Who knows, perhaps he might just join us shortly!

 

[KL2DC]

Front wheel drive and Rear wheel drive , both totally handle different way. He may be right says Altis handle better .....

Of course they have different handling characteristics...I still don't get how you say the Altis handle better.

A quick google and I found the Corolla's skidpad rating as 0.77g (Motor Trend) which is respectable for an economy car. I couldn't find the exact skidpad rating for the 320i but a top boat 330i with Sport package weighs in at 0.92g (Edmunds.com) on the skidpad. Based on standard e46 figures, I estimate the 320i's to be about 0.85ish g's ... give or take a few and depends on tires. So the e90 has a higher lateral grip, as expected.

The only thing I can think of in which the Altis handles better is the monthly payment

I am not ragging on the Altis, its an accomplished car in its own right, but to propose the notion that the Altis is a better handler than a BMW (even in 4cyl 320i guise) remains far fetched.

 

[Iqlima]

not all people like rear wheel drive, then says rear wheel drive not good handle.simple as that ...

 

[KL2DC]

not all people like rear wheel drive, then says rear wheel drive not good handle.simple as that ...

Ok true...in some conditions FWD is safer than RWD because of its tendency to understeer at the limit (easily corrected by easing on the gas). FWD cars are the safe choice of many, especially in colder climate areas with snowfall/ice to contend with. That is a reason why Saabs and now Volvos are FWD. Other than this safety characteristic, FWD implies better overall car packaging and since the weight of the engine is on the front wheels, better grip.

There are three thresholds on what a car's tires can do and that is defined by turning, braking and accelerating. To maximize grip, a car really should be doing one of the three at any given time. In a FWD car and in the heat of driving, its easy to overwhelm the thresholds and thus you end up with the dreaded understeer. That is why enthusiasts believe that the front wheels should only be for turning and also why there is an HP limitation for a FWD chassis (some believe not more than 300hp).

But all the above cited advantages of FWD is moot. Modern day RWDs like the e90 is well sorted out and too have understeer dialled in for safety. Of course oversteer is easily induced . The car's electronics like DSC and DTC ensures high safety in slick conditions. RWD cars also tend to accelerate better as the weight transfers to the rear driving wheels when getting off the line. So you get the safety net of FWD with the steering feel, balanced handling and fun factor of RWD.

But really, its up to the driver, would you really prefer to be pushed or pulled into and out of a corner?

 

[wglee]

Somebody else in Autoworld had seemingly suggested that good handling is an overrated virtue when he said to the effect (and I believe with more than a tinge of sarcasm) that we need good handling cars because in real life situations we take bends at 110km/h and slalom cars every half hour!

 

[KL2DC]

Somebody else in Autoworld had seemingly suggested that good handling is an overrated virtue when he said to the effect (and I believe with more than a tinge of sarcasm) that we need good handling cars because in real life situations we take bends at 110km/h and slalom cars every half hour!

What an idiot!

If good handling is an overrated virtue why is it engineered or attempted at the very least in a plethora of vehicle types from economy cars to SUVs to pickup trucks etc.

Good handling is a safety feature pure and simple. It is essential in accident avoidance and other extreme situations. Good handling and car control goes hand in hand and is what gets you and your family home safe at the end of each and every drive! To suggest otherwise is idiocy. Case closed!

 

[safri]

Somebody else in Autoworld had seemingly suggested that good handling is an overrated virtue when he said to the effect (and I believe with more than a tinge of sarcasm) that we need good handling cars because in real life situations we take bends at 110km/h and slalom cars every half hour!

Can't believe these kind of people exist...

 

[funfer_fahrer]

I found this interesting post in Autoworld yesterday (see below). What do you all think about the statement below which seems to suggest that the Toyota Corolla Altis handles better than the 320i (I think the 320i referred to is the E90 320i)?

"hi guys,

i m driving toyota altis..

Plan to get bmw.. i hav test drive 320, seems is small, underpower,
handling not that good compare to toyota..
And plan to test drive 325 as well, said is more nicer & bigger,, is it
true ?

btw i m looking at 520 / 525 as well..

plan to get a brand new from bavaria or get the recond ? any advice? thx."

(emphasis mine).

Is this some kind of a joke?

 

[ersalle]

hehehehekekekekkekekekeke, that is why i reply there if he thinks altis handles better, he should keep his altis.

 

[scin]

Dude! have many wonderful years with your Altis!
hahahahahahaha

 

[ratchet]

Somewhere down the road...someone is gonna say his Proton Saga handles better than a BMW.

 

[wglee]

Is this some kind of a joke?

Have a look at the BMW forum in Autoworld! It's there.