loud tic-tick sound when idling from cold start

[RIKI]

I notice loud tic-ti-tic sound from the engine bay when starting the car in the morning and letting it idle.A bit worried as it quite loud. But this doeas not happen everytime.Any idea what could it be?Another thing I notice is the car tend to sway when breaking at corners or hard. Could it be the break are unbalanced or soemthing else. The alignment is still good and I alwqys watch my tire pressure.I am sending it to AB to check but would like some opinion:106:

 

[RIKI]

I notice loud tic-ti-tic sound from the engine bay when starting the car in the morning and letting it idle.
A bit worried as it quite loud. But this doeas not happen everytime.

Any idea what could it be?

Another thing I notice is the car tend to sway when breaking at corners or hard. Could it be the break are unbalanced or soemthing else. The alignment is still good and I alwqys watch my tire pressure.

I am sending it to AB to check but would like some opinion
:106:

Feedback Anyone?

 

[E46Fanatic]

Youtube it and let us hear. Sounds like oil not flowing up to the head.

Anyway, the car swaying under hard braking, definitely sounds like an alignment prob. Can get it chked. Either that or uneven tyre pressures all round.

 

[astroboy]

Mine only got tick tick sound after a spirited drive when the exhaust pipe is cooling and shrinking down.. I wonder how "swell" it gets before cooling down..

Sway at braking at corner or hard, endless possibilities:

1. Driver not familiar with car..
2. over inflate
3. under inflate
4. absorber kaput..
5. absorber not mounted properly
6. spring not seated properly
7. wheels lugs not tight
8. worn lower arm bushes
9. worn lower arm ball joints
10. loose steering rack
11. tyre condition not good
12. uneven break grip, air bubbles in the brake fluid
13. alignment
14. camber
15. and many many more..

 

[Spaceman]

if you have jacked up the car one-sided on the front, you'll most likely get this engine tic sounds from my experience. Take a drive for 1-3 min and the sound goes away.

otherwise, sent in for thorough screening...

 

[RIKI]

Mine only got tick tick sound after a spirited drive when the exhaust pipe is cooling and shrinking down.. I wonder how "swell" it gets before cooling down..

Sway at braking at corner or hard, endless possibilities:

1. Driver not familiar with car.. .
Maybe I am still learning , but I am nearing 15k with the car and driven it noth/south/west and up the hills and should be quite familiar with it

2. over inflate
3. under inflate
I regularly maintain tire pressure as suggested

4. absorber kaput..
Need to check this

5. absorber not mounted properly
Never dismounted it

6. spring not seated properly
Not sure how this can happen

7. wheels lugs not tight
Maybe

8. worn lower arm bushes
9. worn lower arm ball joints
10. loose steering rack
Need to check these

11. tyre condition not good
Tires are new and fine

12. uneven break grip, air bubbles in the brake fluid
Need to check this

13. alignment
14. camber
but need to check this
15. and many many more..

Thanks for the list

 

[turbology]

Just a note, if you brake hard on a uneven/slope, you will tend to sway. That is why you should drive with 2 hands

The tic-tic sound you heard in the morning, is most likely due to lifter noise. Most BMW engine, including mine, and also Mitsubishi and Mazda, tend to have this problem. A primary cause of HLA (Hydraulic Lift Adjuster) noise is the result of oil drain back to the crankcase during long periods of storage. Nothing serious as long as the noise goes away after few minutes of idle, or short drive.

For me, the noise went away after 2-5 seconds of startup. If that bothers you, try "thicker" oil, of different brand.

 

[Schwepps]

Opinions please. Would it be true that if the car is aways driven at just above idling revs (around 2000rpm), not much oil gets up to the top end? Also that although a thicker oil may stick to the metal surfaces better, a thinner oil will flow up there more thoroughly?

I try to gun my car up to 5500 rpm at least once a day for the above reason, but would like the opinions of all the sifus. Waiting for some hilarious comeback from you astro, don't disappoint me!

 

[astroboy]

Gee.. I hate to disappoint u sir.. .. because I'm not sure if the E90 4-potter is running an on-demand oil pump like the N52 and even if its on-demand oil pump, I don't know what logic it uses.

Simple physic logic says that thicker oil flow slower, so slower to get it up to the head, more load to the oil pump but it (the oil) stays up longer while its opposite for thinner oil.

Gunning the car on the road (with load, compare to stationary rev) would certainly help in de-carbonating the system, best do it after warming up, but as to whether it gets more oil up to the head, I'm not so sure.. I'm not surprise if u get less because like Toyota VVTi ("i" for Intelligent), when u rev, even aircond also they cut.. :42:

 

[Schwepps]

:28: I'm very disappointed I didn't get a signature astroboy flame. You obviously don't like me...

 

[E46Fanatic]

Some useful info on this topic is found in the BMW service bulletin..

-----
SI B 11 09 07
Engine January 2009
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI 11 09 07 dated April 2008.
designates changes to this revision
SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA): "Ticking" or "Rattling" Noises
MODEL
All E82, E83, E85, E86, E88, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92, and E93 with the N51, N52 or N52K engines
SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the HVA elements may occur during cold engine starts or frequent short-distance driving.
CAUSE
In these situations, the HVA elements may not yet have been supplied with sufficient amounts of air-free oil. This condition will not cause any damage to the engine, and usually remedies itself with a longer driving distance or operating times at full operating temperature.
CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, please perform the following the HVA bleeding procedure.
PROCEDURE
Important notes:
The bleed time may take anywhere from between two minutes and (in rare cases) to a maximum of 30 minutes. This procedure is to be performed on a level surface with the vehicle stationary, and in a properly ventilated area.
Procedure preconditions:
Engine oil level correct – neither underfilled nor overfilled
Engine running at operating temperature
Bring the engine up to an operating speed (no load) of 2000-3000 rpm and maintain this condition for three minutes (bleeding procedure).
Let the engine idle for 15-30 seconds and reevaluate whether the noise is still present or not.
Engine quiet – procedure is finished.
Engine noise is still present – repeat the procedure; perform steps #1 and #2 up to a maximum of 5 times.
Only if the noise remains after performing the bleeding procedure 5 times: proceed by performing the procedure for a final time, also at an engine operating speed of 2000-3000 rpm, but for a total time duration of 15 minutes.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Defect Code
11 12 94 39 00
Labor Operation
00 57 087
Perform bleeding up to three times
Main Work*
Labor Allowance
5 FRU
Labor Operation
00 57 088
Perform bleeding 5 complete times
Main Work*
Labor Allowance
7 FRU
Labor Operation
00 57 089
Perform bleeding 5 complete times plus an additional
Main Work*
15 minute bleed run
Labor Allowance
11 FRU
Labor Operation
00 57 717
Perform bleeding up to three times
+ Associated Work
Labor Allowance
3 FRU
Labor Operation
00 57 718
Perform bleeding 5 complete times
+ Associated Work
Labor Allowance
5 FRU
Labor Operation
00 57 719
Perform bleeding 5 complete times plus an additional
+ Associated Work
15 minute bleed run
Labor Allowance
9 FRU
*Main Work - use this labor operation number when this is the only repair being performed, or if this is the main repair when performed along with other repairs at the same time. If this is not the main repair, refer to KSD for the associated (+) labor operation code.

 

[astroboy]

yay!! N46 is spared! That means we don't have hydraulic lifters ka!!

Apa lah！My 1992 Perdana inline-4 also got hydraulic lifters..

 

[Schwepps]

So can we conclude that it's good to gun the engine to high revs regularly?

I notice that with the N52, normal city driving speeds are at very low revs and one can drive from home to office without going above 1,500rpm. So I try to floor it once a day - in D drive, that means upshifts at about 5,500rpm. Correct, or am I just wasting V-Power?

 

[astroboy]

So can we conclude that it's good to gun the engine to high revs regularly?..

For what? Wasting V-Power.. :stupid: Unless you want to decarbonized regularly which I don't think its necessary..

I gun my VVTi MPV everyday though.. especially in the morning as part of my reality checks wake up call..

 

[Schwepps]

For what? Wasting V-Power.. :stupid:

Hehhehheh...

 

[bimmerdude]

is this the reason for the mysterious missing oil ?

 

[turbology]

is this the reason for the mysterious missing oil ?

No.
Mostly a "Blow-By" will cause your engine oil to vanish. Do a compression check to make sure.
Other factor might include, ailing spark plugs, clog injectors or fuel filter, too lean or rich (vacuum leak), and etc.

 

[E46Fanatic]

No.
Mostly a "Blow-By" will cause your engine oil to vanish. Do a compression check to make sure.
Other factor might include, ailing spark plugs, clog injectors or fuel filter, too lean or rich (vacuum leak), and etc.

For the rate of oil disappearance encountered by some, and the lack of tell tale signs such as smoke or oily tail pipes, its unlikely caused by blow by. Some theories include oil evaporation due to the higher operating temps of the N52 or sludge formation due to valvetronic mechanism which relies of air actuation and air flow causes oil foaming/frothing, which impacts the oil and cause sludge (probably the reason valvetronic engines need different BMW LL oil certification). So far there has been no confirmation. I wish BMW would disclose something on this issue.

 

[turbology]

For the rate of oil disappearance encountered by some, and the lack of tell tale signs such as smoke or oily tail pipes, its unlikely caused by blow by.

Not all engine with bad piston rings that have a blow-by, will have white smoke or oilly tail pipes.
Disappearing of engline oil usually is the first sign that something might be wrong with the engine.

 

[bimmerdude]

i believe the tapping noise is a known issue and has been covered by the service bulletins in the US. lately too, there has been a recall on some models to have the camshaft sensor unit replaced by BMW in Malaysia.