Can an e30325 out run an e30M3?

  • Click here to become an Official Member of BMW Club Malaysia Download Form

mrhartge

demonic entity
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
4,383
Points
0
this is interesting.Can I make my 325is outrun a M3? [ Alan Rich :: 27 Oct 2000 ] As an owner of both an extremely-modified E30 M3 and a project E30 325is, I will answer that.For this answer, I will reference the February 1988 issue of Road and Track magazine, in which there was an excellent road test comparing the M3 with the 325is.Let's start with the road test. In acceleration, the 325is is only SLIGHTLY slower than the M3. (Zero to 60 in 7.5 seconds compared to 7.1 for the M3. Quarter mile in 15.7 seconds at 88.5 MPH compared to 15.4 seconds at 91 MPH for the M3). AND THIS IS WITH A GEARING DISADVANTAGE !!! Yes, the 325is has a 3.73:1 ring-and-pinion ratio whereas the M3 has a 4.10:1.Doing nothing other than putting a 4.10:1 differential in a 325is will instantly make it faster than a stock M3 except for top speed.How is this possible, you may think, because the M3 has 192 horsepower compared to 168 for the 325is?This is where people's thinking goes wrong about what makes a car fast:It's not how much horsepower the engine makes; It's better explained by the power-to-weight ratio (the car's weight divided by the engine's horsepower). But since the M3 and the 325is weight about the same, that STILL doesn't explain how the 325is with 24 less horsepower can outrun the M3.The answer is in the area under the power curve of the engines. You can't accelerate all the way from zero to whatever with the engine always at the peak power RPM... so the shape of that Horsepower vs. RPM graph determines how much power goes to the wheels in real-world acceleration runs. The six-banger power curve is fat while the M3 is more like a spike, typical of a peaky twin-cam four. The area under the power curve of the six-cylinder is greater than the area under the power curve of the four cylinder, for the total RPM range used in accelerating. That's why the 325is is faster when you give it the same gearing.See my other tech article "Pros and cons of changing ring-and-pinion ratio (differential) for performance" for more detail on this differential gearing bizness.Now, with a good chip, properly done cone airfilter conversion, and a good premium free-flow exhaust system, your 325is engine will roughly match the stock M3 in PEAK horsepower, if that's what you like, IN ADDITION to having the fat power curve coming from the two extra cylinders. Upgrade to a 2.7 liter conversion with a Schrick cam and Mass Air Flow meter and you will outrun all but the very most radical E30 M3's... and you can start looking for E36 M3's to rumble with.Does all this make the 325is a superior performance car to the M3? No. For the race track, I would still take the M3 any day over the 325is. The light-weight four-cylinder engine gives it better handling and braking dynamics. The numerous other high performance factory upgrades (which CAN be fitted to the 325is) make it a better track car. On the track, you can keep he RPM's up where the M3 motor puts out its power, so the fat power curve of the 325is loses its advantage.But for the street, I would pick the 325is any day. It FEELS faster than the M3 on the street even when it's not. And engine upgrades are achievable within my budget. I can build a 250 horsepower 325is six-cylinder for a few thousand dollars... have you looked at the prices for the BMW Motorsports / Evolution engine parts required to get the same level of power out of the M3 engine? Alan Rich
 
Hartge, very interesting! BTW you have any suggestion for convertion of M20b20 engine? internal upgrade(M20b23) or full engine upgrade(M20b25 0r b27 or even higher)? Thanks
 
hard to beat the phat M3 look....no matter how well the 325is performs
 
Originally posted by Lionel_Koh@Dec 31 2004, 04:34 PM
Hartge, very interesting! BTW you have any suggestion for convertion of M20b20 engine? internal upgrade(M20b23) or full engine upgrade(M20b25 0r b27 or even higher)? Thanks
Lionel..... u hav a e34 rite... no point in upgrading the m20...too small too push ur frame.... power to weight factor.... go for the big brother engine
m30... but i think sumbody did an 3liter stroker kit on a m20....heh heh :ph34r:
 
Mr Hartge,

Another thing to ponder ..

Can an E30M40 outrun an E30B23 ??? ahh make it E30B25 ... :p
 
e30M40B18 try to out run a e30M20B25....i tried already.. can't... vely hard to reach... 10 cars length..
 
Lionel, first you need to decide what you want from your car. Otherwise, it will be difficult as everyone will throw in their 2 cents worth of opinion.

Basically horsepower doesnt come cheap. Do you have the budget to do it? And then, will it ever stop there?

If you are having a M20B20, then go for the M50TUB25 conversion, the M20B25 for the e34 is pretty hard to find and probably cost only slightly less than the M50. Get a half cut (probably about RM 6500) and expect to pay the labour + some other parts to be about 3-4k. All in all, should be less than 11k.

Hope this helps to clear the confusion.

Rgds
 
Originally posted by ALBundy@Dec 31 2004, 05:32 PM
Lionel, first you need to decide what you want from your car. Otherwise, it will be difficult as everyone will throw in their 2 cents worth of opinion.

Basically horsepower doesnt come cheap. Do you have the budget to do it? And then, will it ever stop there?

If you are having a M20B20, then go for the M50TUB25 conversion, the M20B25 for the e34 is pretty hard to find and probably cost only slightly less than the M50. Get a half cut (probably about RM 6500) and expect to pay the labour + some other parts to be about 3-4k. All in all, should be less than 11k.

Hope this helps to clear the confusion.

Rgds
finally..sum1 who understands my rubbish... :D
 
Originally posted by 535i@Dec 31 2004, 05:19 PM
Mr Hartge,

Another thing to ponder ..

Can an E30M40 outrun an E30B23 ??? ahh make it E30B25 ... :p
blaaaah :p ....rematch beb... hang ada hantu dlm m40 tu....
 
Pussy,

E30B25 tapau u for 10 cars length ... aayoooo .... come .. come .. let us sit down .... we talk ....


Mr Hartge,

Rematch .. can .. can ... sure or not ??? Alaaa .. old 'hantu' maaa ... :D
 
Originally posted by 535i@Dec 31 2004, 06:38 PM
Pussy,

E30B25 tapau u for 10 cars length ... aayoooo .... come .. come .. let us sit down .... we talk ....


Mr Hartge,

Rematch .. can .. can ... sure or not ??? Alaaa .. old 'hantu' maaa ... :D
haiyoooo...now wantu poison kucing hitam pulak...... :lol: :lol:
 
Turun kan ilmu kepada kucing hitam so 6 potter tak buli dia ...

Ceramic waterpump, customized cam, diff gearbox ratio, chip bla bla bla bla ...

Kucing hitam,

We do ur car and then ask WAQ XXXX E30 323i to test power ... apmacam Mr Hard Gay .. ada berani ...

Happy New Year all ..... :p
 
Originally posted by 535i@Dec 31 2004, 06:52 PM
Turun kan ilmu kepada kucing hitam so 6 potter tak buli dia ...

Ceramic waterpump, customized cam, diff gearbox ratio, chip bla bla bla bla ...

Kucing hitam,

We do ur car and then ask WAQ XXXX E30 323i to test power ... apmacam Mr Hard Gay .. ada berani ...

Happy New Year all ..... :p
eeh...aku pulak :blink: ....test power dgn org lain lar..zoggee ada, alvin ada, tj ada,
calvin ada & lain-lain lagi laaar....

kereta aku dah cacat lar....stroke victim :(
 
Stroke ???

Come .. come .. let us rebuild it back ... no prob ...
 
mr hardgay is on a secret power upgrade to try and beat , or at least come close to the infamous WCP.........

kena turun ilmu sikit to him, he staying in an island la.... kesian dia sikit la 535i......can or not......????
 
Originally posted by ALBundy@Dec 31 2004, 12:32 PM
Lionel, first you need to decide what you want from your car. Otherwise, it will be difficult as everyone will throw in their 2 cents worth of opinion.

Basically horsepower doesnt come cheap. Do you have the budget to do it? And then, will it ever stop there?

If you are having a M20B20, then go for the M50TUB25 conversion, the M20B25 for the e34 is pretty hard to find and probably cost only slightly less than the M50. Get a half cut (probably about RM 6500) and expect to pay the labour + some other parts to be about 3-4k. All in all, should be less than 11k.

Hope this helps to clear the confusion.

Rgds
I prefer just the internal upgrade cos i dan't want to change the engine no!In term of power, i just request a better from my existing m20b20...not need upgrade untill the car boleh terbang....Therefor i looking for m20b23 and just upgrade it........thru the forum understand that the result quite impressive!My car is manual n i think wit b23 should be enough cos i'm not kaki lumba........nyawa lebih important ......
 
Originally posted by pussy@Dec 31 2004, 12:30 PM
e30M40B18 try to out run a e30M20B25....i tried already.. can't... vely hard to reach... 10 cars length..
You sure onot? Try taking that same car on a track and you will be pleasantly surprised!
 
Top Bottom