Brake grunts and groans!

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Daytona

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Hi Sifu'sI am currently driving a LCI E90 and noticed that whenever I am crawling in traffic and press the brake and then let it go, there is a grunt or groaning sound from the brakes! Noticeable when you are inching slowly in traffic and pressing the brake and letting go. The sound is like when you park your car on a uphill and pull the handbrake... it groans/grunts. Not a biggie but just wanted your feedback if this is normal.Cheers
 
All our pads are leaning towards performance range, so optimal operating temperature is high. Bring it up to temperature and the squeak should be gone. That's why I love putting on Sport shift mode and drive like a ***... the brake all diam diam.. :wink:
 
I experienced the same thing too. Thought it is normal, is it?
 
Normal la. It should however be less pronounced once the brakes are all heated up. Try a few round of hard braking till a thin layer of the pads are nicely transfered to the discs. Then you get the benefit of adherent friction on top of abrasive friction for braking performance. You can see the layer from just looking at your discs. It'll be a tint of darker grey often upon hard braking can even give you funky colors like reflective blue color on the discs. Thats when you have a nice sticky layer of pads on the discs and you'll get optimum braking from your brakes..

Check out this article:
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Pad and Rotor Bed-In Theory, Definitions and Procedures
Removing the Mystery from Brake Pad Bed-In

by Matt Weiss of StopTech and James Walker, Jr. of scR motorsports


In order for any brake system to work optimally, the rotors and pads must be properly bedded-in, period. This process can also be called break-in, conditioning, or burnishing, but whatever terminology you choose, getting the brakes properly bedded-in and keeping them that way is critical to the peak performance of the entire brake system.

However, understanding why the rotors and pads need to be bedded-in is just as important as the actual process. If one understands what is happening during the bed-in process, they can tailor the process to specific pads, rotors, and/or driving conditions. For this reason, we present this generic bed-in overview pertaining to all brake systems, but follow with links to application-specific bed-in procedures to fit most every set of circumstances.

What is brake pad �bed-in� anyway?

Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. That's it. End of discussion. Ok, not really, but although bed-in is quite basic in definition, achieving this condition in practice can be quite a challenge, and the ramifications of improper or incomplete bed-in can be quite a-a-n-n-o-o-y-y-i-i-n-n-g-g.
Abrasive friction and adherent friction

There are two basic types of brake pad friction mechanisms: abrasive friction and adherent friction . In general, all pads display a bit of each, with abrasive mechanisms dominating the lower temperature ranges while adherent mechanisms come more into play as pad temperature increases. Both mechanisms allow for friction or the conversion of Kinetic energy to Thermal energy, which is the function of a brake system, by the breaking of molecular bonds in vastly different ways.

The abrasive mechanism generates friction or energy conversion by the mechanical rubbing of the brake pad material directly on the rotor disc. In a crystalline sense, the weaker of the bonds in the two different materials is broken. This obviously results in mechanical wear of both the pad and the rotor. Consequently, both pads and rotors are replaced when they are physically worn to their limit and are too thin to endure further service.

The adherent mechanism is altogether different. In an adherent system, a thin layer of brake pad material actually transfers and sticks (adheres) on to the rotor face. The layer of pad material, once evenly established on the rotor, is what actually rubs on the brake pad. The bonds that are broken, for the conversion of Kinetic to Thermal energy, are formed instantaneously before being broken again. It is this brake pad-on-transferred brake pad material interaction on a molecular level that yields the conversion process.

With the adherent mechanism there is much reduced rotor wear as compared to abrasive mechanism, but it's not a free lunch � pads now become the primary wear element in the braking system. And even though rotors are not mechanically worn down with adherent systems, they still will need to be replaced on a regular basis due to cracking reaching a point of failure if they are exposed to intense, repetitive thermal cycling. This is why race teams throw out rotors that are actually as thick or thicker than when they were brand new. It's due to the an adherent brake pad transfer layer!

The all-important transfer layer

As stated above, the objective of the bed-in process is to deposit an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer , on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. Note the emphasis on the word even, as uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration.

Let's say that again, just so there is no misunderstanding. Uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration.

It only takes a small amount of thickness variation, or TV, in the transfer layer (we're only talking a few ten thousandths of an inch here) to initiate brake vibration. While the impact of an uneven transfer layer is almost imperceptible at first, as the pad starts riding the high and low spots, more and more TV will be naturally generated until the vibration is much more evident. With prolonged exposure, the high spots can become hot spots and can actually change the metallurgy of the rotor in those areas, creating �hard� spots in the rotor face that are virtually impossible to remove.

Bedding fundamentals

In general, bed-in consists of heating a brake system to its adherent temperature to allow the formation of a transfer layer. The brake system is then allowed to cool without coming to rest, resulting in an even transfer layer deposition around the rotor circumference. This procedure is typically repeated two or three times in order to ensure that the entire rotor face is evenly covered with brake pad material. Sounds easy, right? Well, it can be if you have the proper information.

Because the adherent temperature range for brake pads varies widely (typically 100°F-600°F for street pads and 600°F-1400°F for race pads), each bed-in needs to be application-specific. One could try to generate a one-size-fits-all procedure, but too little heat during bed-in keeps the material from transferring to the rotor face while overheating the system can generate uneven pad deposits due to the material breaking down and splotching (that's a technical term) on to the rotor face.

In summary, the key to a successful bed-in is to bring the pads up to their adherent operating temperature in a controlled manner and keep them there long enough to start the pad material transfer process. Different brake system designs, pad types, and driving conditions require different procedures to successfully accomplish the bed-in. The recommended procedures below should provide you with the information you need to select the bed-in procedure appropriate for your application.

FAQ #1: How can I tell if my brakes are bedded-in?

This is a question without a single definitive answer; however, there are visual indicators on the rotor itself which can help determine the state of the bed-in.
1. Rotor discoloration. Typically, there will be a bluish tint to a used rotor which is from heat. A more important color is a grayish tint or film on the face of the rotor where the pads touch. This color is actually from the pad material building up and is the best indication of how much pad material is adhered to the rotor. In general, if the rotor face is still shiny there is not enough pad material built up. Note that different pads will generate different appearances, so take notice of how the rotor appears before starting the bed-in process so you can recognize any difference after.

2. Machining marks. On a new rotor, you can often use machining marks on the rotor face to assess the state of the bed-in. Typically, there will be either very slight grooves from turning the rotor (like a vinyl record � ask your parents) or more random marks from grinding the rotor surface during manufacturing. Prior to starting the bed-in process take a mental picture of the machining marks. If they are still very prominent following bed-in, you may not be bedding-in aggressively enough. In general it's alright if there are still slight traces of the machining marks after a few bed-in cycles, but you should definitely see them starting to go away.
 
Thanks Astroboy and E46Fanatic, obviously i have been to gentle. Looks like we have to treat them hard to be nice! Good excuse now to do some Tiff Needle impressions! Cheers
 
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